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BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > N20, N26, B46, B48 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > N20 Engine Knocking?
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      12-14-2016, 01:47 PM   #1
motorwerkeman
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N20 Engine Knocking?

Well, 2 months out of warranty my 2012 328i developed an unusual engine noise on the way to work this morning. At 4000rpm and above, there is a what I can best describe as a knocking or ticking noise that is definitely new. Also makes the noise when cornering which is concerning (but much less pronounced).

The car is a 2012 build, 35,040km serviced at BMW with the exception of 1 oil change using LL01 approved Castrol EDGE and an OEM filter. I always use 91 or 94 octane fuel.

No codes or low oil warnings, but drove at low rpm to the nearest dealer and dropped it off. Will update with more information once I receive a diagnosis.

Anyone have a similar issue? No abnormal sounds are observed at idle like can be heard with some of the stretched timing chain cases.
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      12-14-2016, 03:33 PM   #2
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Best to post a video, as trying to describe an odd sound gives no real grasp on what you are talking about. Engines make bunch of noises, so do CV axles, exhaust leaks cause rattles and strange noises, Clutch, flywheels. etc. List is endless.
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      12-14-2016, 04:52 PM   #3
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w/o a video or a code it's hard to tell, but over all the N20/N26 engine is hard on spark plugs, so they may need to be replaced soon. If you look at the manual they recomend every 30k miles. If you rag on your car it could be ealier though. I do alot of highway miles and was able to get 60k miles out of mine.
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      12-14-2016, 05:25 PM   #4
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The verdict is in:

They think it's a stretched timing chain and want $902.00 for a complete diagnosis on top of the $154.00 inspection charge.

They also said it could be 'worn cam lobes' but with 35,000km seems impossible.

Very disappointing. I asked if any TSB existing regarding the timing chain at my last service, my concerns were brushed off with no real answers.

Calling around to independent shops to see what replacing with the newer parts is worth. Should I take BMW up on the full diagnosis to know the extent? I do have CAA so flatbed tow to an independent shop is definitely an option.

Last edited by motorwerkeman; 12-15-2016 at 12:31 AM.
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      12-15-2016, 03:16 PM   #5
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Hmm, does your engine whine when you give it gas? Also $1k for an inspection is bs. They are taking your money. I would go back and tell them you want this fixed for free as this is a known issue for this engine if it is a Stretching chain or a oil pump going bad. These have been the 2 main issues with these cars on early production years and they offer a new timing chain guide and chain to correct this and there is a TSB for it. I would advise they fix for free due to a manufacturing issue that is not caused by you but buy BMW and they should own up to replacing it. There may be lots of going back and forth on this but hopefully they will fix for free or cover most of the expense if this is a timing chain or oil pump issue. If your SA doesn't go anything for you ask to speak to the Service Manager and ask for replacement under "Good Faith" for such a low mileage car that is just outside of warranty.
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      12-15-2016, 05:16 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorwerkeman View Post
Well, 2 months out of warranty my 2012 328i developed an unusual engine noise on the way to work this morning. At 4000rpm and above, there is a what I can best describe as a knocking or ticking noise that is definitely new. Also makes the noise when cornering which is concerning (but much less pronounced).

The car is a 2012 build, 35,040km serviced at BMW with the exception of 1 oil change using LL01 approved Castrol EDGE and an OEM filter. I always use 91 or 94 octane fuel.

No codes or low oil warnings, but drove at low rpm to the nearest dealer and dropped it off. Will update with more information once I receive a diagnosis.

Anyone have a similar issue? No abnormal sounds are observed at idle like can be heard with some of the stretched timing chain cases.
one oil change in 35,000KM? thats your ticking noise. oil changes should be done every 7-8000KM.
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      12-16-2016, 08:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
one oil change in 35,000KM? thats your ticking noise. oil changes should be done every 7-8000KM
Wrong. Car was serviced at BMW dealer before I owned it, and booked a service appointment including an oil change under warranty as soon as I took possession of the car earlier this year.

BMW LL01 is recommended at 18,000km interval on the iDrive. I made sure the change was completed at 10,000km interval with OEM filter and LL01 approved Castrol following the warranty expiry. This is not a case of poor maintenance, but faulty parts - there's a reason BMW revised the chain and guides for 2015.

Quote:
Hmm, does your engine whine when you give it gas? Also $1k for an inspection is bs. They are taking your money. I would go back and tell them you want this fixed for free as this is a known issue for this engine if it is a Stretching chain or a oil pump going bad. These have been the 2 main issues with these cars on early production years and they offer a new timing chain guide and chain to correct this and there is a TSB for it. I would advise they fix for free due to a manufacturing issue that is not caused by you but buy BMW and they should own up to replacing it. There may be lots of going back and forth on this but hopefully they will fix for free or cover most of the expense if this is a timing chain or oil pump issue. If your SA doesn't go anything for you ask to speak to the Service Manager and ask for replacement under "Good Faith" for such a low mileage car that is just outside of warranty.
Thanks for the insight. As soon as I heard it make the knock/tick at higher rpm twice I drove to the dealer immediately at 1500rpm and below, so unsure if any whine could be observed. The car ran great before this and I was really impressed with the N20 prior to the issue. The dealer may a marginal percentage discount - pending conditions - on some of the costs. Best approximation I have heard is $8,000 tax in best-case scenario. Independent estimate including labor assuming the chain, guides, oil pump parts, and associated hardware were to be replaced is around $3,500.

Last edited by motorwerkeman; 12-16-2016 at 09:05 PM.
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      12-16-2016, 11:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorwerkeman View Post
Wrong. Car was serviced at BMW dealer before I owned it, and booked a service appointment including an oil change under warranty as soon as I took possession of the car earlier this year.

BMW LL01 is recommended at 18,000km interval on the iDrive. I made sure the change was completed at 10,000km interval with OEM filter and LL01 approved Castrol following the warranty expiry. This is not a case of poor maintenance, but faulty parts - there's a reason BMW revised the chain and guides for 2015.



Thanks for the insight. As soon as I heard it make the knock/tick at higher rpm twice I drove to the dealer immediately at 1500rpm and below, so unsure if any whine could be observed. The car ran great before this and I was really impressed with the N20 prior to the issue. The dealer may a marginal percentage discount - pending conditions - on some of the costs. Best approximation I have heard is $8,000 tax in best-case scenario. Independent estimate including labor assuming the chain, guides, oil pump parts, and associated hardware were to be replaced is around $3,500.
I was always a bit scared of the timing chain issue. given that i had terrible experience with local dealerships during the first year of owning the car, i have never been back to any dealer for any type of service except for recalls.

When i first heard of the timing chain issue effecting 12/13 models, i asked some dealers if they would replace it under the TSB. obviously they declined because they have no service records except for one oil change and a few recalls.

since they wouldn't do it and wanted to charge me up the ass to get it done. i took my car to a garage and had it done there for 1/4 the price almost.

would've got forged piston and rods too if they were out at the time. but now im holding out on that and hoping nothing major happens to my engine.
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      12-17-2016, 01:50 PM   #9
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Does anyone have the TSB number for the timing chain?
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      12-17-2016, 10:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1lyfe View Post
i took my car to a garage and had it done there for 1/4 the price almost.
I did not quite get it what exactly you did. Did your chain failed or you replaced it as preventive measure? If second, how much $ and time? Thanks
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      12-18-2016, 01:39 PM   #11
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I am curious as to what the amount was that you paid for the job so I can factor in the cost if I need to do the same??.. I am also just out of warranty..

Thanks..
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      12-18-2016, 05:26 PM   #12
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Surprise surprise, it's also in the B48 engine.

I dropped my car to its 2nd service today. Just 21735KM and it has 5 super-knocking cylinder 3 as well as same 5 in "all cylinders" I only felt one of them under heavy acceleration switching from ECO PRO to SPORT mode. All 5 started at 20041KM and last one happened like 900Km ago.

Also, a few days ago, I parked at the super market, stayed there for like 7 minutes, started the car, it took a tad longer to start, and the moment it started rattled for a second and then normal. I drove for like 10 km. Stopped, A.S.S worked normal. another 3 km. Parked at home, stopped, then started again and everything is normal.

They had to keep the car in for further diagnoses and the engineer told me it's the first time they see such a thing and need to contact Germany about it.
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      12-19-2016, 04:46 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F30ed View Post
I did not quite get it what exactly you did. Did your chain failed or you replaced it as preventive measure? If second, how much $ and time? Thanks
parts costed around 500$ CAD.

BMW tech quoted me 10hours labor
took the shop 3 days of on and off work to get it complete.
We took the engine out of the car, disassembled everything and put it back in.

When we looked at it, it is possible to do all the work with the engine in. but since they havent done one before. it was easier to just take the whole block out and put it back in when complete.
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      01-10-2017, 12:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1lyfe View Post
parts costed around 500$ CAD.

BMW tech quoted me 10hours labor
took the shop 3 days of on and off work to get it complete.
We took the engine out of the car, disassembled everything and put it back in.

When we looked at it, it is possible to do all the work with the engine in. but since they havent done one before. it was easier to just take the whole block out and put it back in when complete.
Hi 1lyfe,

I am in Toronto and am looking around to see if I can get this done, dealer is not willing to do this job and I am also out of warranty. Was wondering where you got this done and approx how much the cost of was - I am assuming you had timing chain, rails, oil pump and oil pump chain done. I have looked around a few places and got quotes for around 2000 for just the timing chain and rails but am thinking its best to also do oil pump and chain as well. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

I am currently at 99,000 km and stories of engine failure are giving me anxiety.
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      01-10-2017, 08:19 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy2K View Post
Hi 1lyfe,

I am in Toronto and am looking around to see if I can get this done, dealer is not willing to do this job and I am also out of warranty. Was wondering where you got this done and approx how much the cost of was - I am assuming you had timing chain, rails, oil pump and oil pump chain done. I have looked around a few places and got quotes for around 2000 for just the timing chain and rails but am thinking its best to also do oil pump and chain as well. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

I am currently at 99,000 km and stories of engine failure are giving me anxiety.
The shop i took it to is a relative of mine so they didn't charge me any labor and i helped for the most part of the "repair".

I only did the timing chain and rails. i was thinking for also doing the oil pump and chain but at 60k km, they said it was not absolutely needed since its relatively new.

when summer rolls around i am planning on getting forged pistons and rods so at that point i think i will also do the oil pump/chain and waterpump as well since i am also sitting around 98k kms right now.
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