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      12-20-2012, 10:45 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claykin View Post
In your head BMW intends to punish people (with a dead battery) because they don't follow your irrationality and lock their car when there's no need to in a secure garage.

WRONG. Drive on please.
Every other person here has said it's not a bug. You have to deliberately do sth no normal person would do in order to screw up the intended programming. Think about it:

Get in car through PASSENGER SIDE. press power to ACTIVATE ENTERTAINMENT ONLY (instead of driving). press power AGAIN TO DEACT ENTERTAINMENT (instead of just turning off entertainment). HAVE LIGHTS ON WHILE ONLY USING ENTERTAINMENT IN YOUR GARAGE (cause if they weren't they wouldn't be stuck on) Get out, DO NOT LOCK.

If BMW had to design a car that caters to those very very VERY specific needs, they may as well make all their cars designed for colorblind, one legged, dyslexic, 8 feet tall people who insist on getting into the car through the top, not through a door.

"THE MOONROOF ISN'T BIG ENOUGH FOR ME TO FIT THROUGH". SMH.
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      12-21-2012, 12:58 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claykin View Post
Its in my locked garage.
Car insurance companies don't care if the garage is locked. They care if the car is locked.

Quote:
Lets stay on topic here. Its not about my garage and/or whether you think I should lock my car while in my locked private garage. This is about a software glitch that can leave you with a dead battery.
What everybody else said...
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      12-21-2012, 08:26 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsuyoi View Post
Every other person here has said it's not a bug. You have to deliberately do sth no normal person would do in order to screw up the intended programming. Think about it:
Are you a software engineer for BMW? If not, how in the world could you make such a definitive statement that its "not a bug"? You assume. And you know what assume means...

I'll take the right path and report it to my dealer and let them get an official reply from BMW. I will also check 5/7 series and see if the act same.

Quote:
If BMW had to design a car that caters to those very very VERY specific needs, they may as well make all their cars designed for colorblind, one legged, dyslexic, 8 feet tall people who insist on getting into the car through the top, not through a door.

"THE MOONROOF ISN'T BIG ENOUGH FOR ME TO FIT THROUGH". SMH.
Opening a door, closing it and expecting not not have a dead battery is a "very specific need". I tell ya. Its a wonder those boys in Munich can even figure out how to put the car together. Tough stuff.
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      12-21-2012, 10:02 AM   #26
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Get defensive much? Attack anybody who doesn't agree with you instead of realizing wow. NOBODY agrees with me. Maybe I should look at this differently.
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      12-21-2012, 11:14 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claykin View Post
Are you a software engineer for BMW? If not, how in the world could you make such a definitive statement that its "not a bug"? You assume. And you know what assume means...

I'll take the right path and report it to my dealer and let them get an official reply from BMW. I will also check 5/7 series and see if the act same.



Opening a door, closing it and expecting not not have a dead battery is a "very specific need". I tell ya. Its a wonder those boys in Munich can even figure out how to put the car together. Tough stuff.

Okay, go ahead and report to your dealer. They'll shoot an email to BMWNA. The eggheads over there will have a good holiday laugh, joke with each other about how "stupid some of these owners are", and send back some boiler plate reply about "How they're looking into it".

No, I'm not a software engineer for BMW. Yes, I AM a software engineer. And I deal with end users. So I know all the outlandish unreasonable demands they make. Like yours. And I know that if we wanted to satisfy them all, any program would be 3TB, have a million options that'll completely confound the average user, and cost 3 times as much due to all the debugging/beta testing it'd take.

You're not just opening and closing a door. I doubt the lights stay on if you just opened the passenger door and closed it. You're opening, starting the car FROM THE WRONG SIDE, turning on the front and rear lights IN YOUR GARAGE, stopping it, and then closing the door WITHOUT LOCKING.

Christ, it's a wonder your CA didn't toss you out of the dealership for being such an obnoxious obstinate fool.
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      12-21-2012, 11:28 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsuyoi View Post
Okay, go ahead and report to your dealer. They'll shoot an email to BMWNA. The eggheads over there will have a good holiday laugh, joke with each other about how "stupid some of these owners are", and send back some boiler plate reply about "How they're looking into it".

No, I'm not a software engineer for BMW. Yes, I AM a software engineer. And I deal with end users. So I know all the outlandish unreasonable demands they make. Like yours. And I know that if we wanted to satisfy them all, any program would be 3TB, have a million options that'll completely confound the average user, and cost 3 times as much due to all the debugging/beta testing it'd take.

You're not just opening and closing a door. I doubt the lights stay on if you just opened the passenger door and closed it. You're opening, starting the car FROM THE WRONG SIDE, turning on the front and rear lights IN YOUR GARAGE, stopping it, and then closing the door WITHOUT LOCKING.

Christ, it's a wonder your CA didn't toss you out of the dealership for being such an obnoxious obstinate fool.
Since you have nothing intelligent to add, please drive on.

Your "outlandish unreasonable" demanding customers need your attention more than this thread.

Oh, and if you think the Linux/BSD based code for the F30 is 3TB, you really have no clue. Not even close.
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      12-21-2012, 11:35 AM   #29
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The battery will never die completely. I remember from the manual that the car continuously monitors the battery and will automatically shut the cars power down so that the car can always be started up. This is the underlying feature that governs the batteries depletion. The car makes sure you can always start it up. Doesn't anyone read the damn manuals these days? Theres more tech in todays cars than the first couple shuttles to the moon. You don't need to be an engineer to work a car but you should read the manual first if you have no clue whats happening.

Last edited by wayman519; 12-21-2012 at 11:43 AM.
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      12-21-2012, 11:45 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claykin View Post
Really? I follow above using drivers door. Not locked. Lights all shut off.
My apologies - in that case I presume the sensor is simply on the door, not the locking mechanism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wayman519 View Post
The battery will never die completely. I remember from the manual that the car continuously monitors the battery and will automatically shut the cars power down so that the car can always be started up. This is the underlying feature that governs the batteries depletion. The car makes sure you can always start it up.
Wayman has solved your concern - Shouldn't kill your battery...

The fact remains - why would you get in the wrong side and power up for entertainment? Further to that why wouldnt you lock the car anyway?

If its just the entertainment can you just press the power button on the actual radio rather than pressing the ignition on? (does this give you the standard 60 minute of radio before auto shutting off like other cars?)
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Last edited by Sladester100; 12-21-2012 at 11:46 AM. Reason: dodgy typing skills...
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      12-21-2012, 12:22 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claykin View Post
Since you have nothing intelligent to add, please drive on.

Your "outlandish unreasonable" demanding customers need your attention more than this thread.

Oh, and if you think the Linux/BSD based code for the F30 is 3TB, you really have no clue. Not even close.
Since you have obviously run out of rebuttals for the reasonable questions raised by EVERYONE here, and have resorted to just slinging personal insults at anyone who doesn't agree with your particular brand of crazy, then yes, I shall drive on and leave this pointless thread.
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      12-21-2012, 07:12 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wayman519 View Post
The battery will never die completely. I remember from the manual that the car continuously monitors the battery and will automatically shut the cars power down so that the car can always be started up. This is the underlying feature that governs the batteries depletion. The car makes sure you can always start it up. Doesn't anyone read the damn manuals these days? Theres more tech in todays cars than the first couple shuttles to the moon. You don't need to be an engineer to work a car but you should read the manual first if you have no clue whats happening.
I hear ya. And yup, I'm a guy so user manuals are a last resort.

As a car ages so does its CCA of the battery. Just because BMW can monitor the slow discharge rate does not mean the battery will have the CCA's to start the car. I'm sure they do a good job monitoring the battery, but all they can do is go by the law of averages. I highly doubt they put a CCA type load when testing the battery for low signaling.

Thx for your reply.
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      12-21-2012, 07:17 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sladester100 View Post
My apologies - in that case I presume the sensor is simply on the door, not the locking mechanism.
No need to apologize. These forums are meant to enlighten, learn and entertain.

Quote:
Wayman has solved your concern - Shouldn't kill your battery...

The fact remains - why would you get in the wrong side and power up for entertainment? Further to that why wouldnt you lock the car anyway?

If its just the entertainment can you just press the power button on the actual radio rather than pressing the ignition on? (does this give you the standard 60 minute of radio before auto shutting off like other cars?)
I replied to Wayman. The battery monitoring is an excellent step by BMW, but I wouldn't want to rely on that when I need to leave at 6AM one morning and find I need to scour for a set of jumper cables and a good battery to jump from.

Are you sure the entertainment system has a 60 minute timeout? Maybe that's the same timeout that would turn off these lights. I didn't let it go that long. Interesting.

BTW, it was my son who first discovered pushing the START button before turning on the iDrive. And he also discovered turning off from the START button turns off the iDrive. These kids are clever.
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      12-22-2012, 09:41 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claykin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsuyoi View Post
Okay, go ahead and report to your dealer. They'll shoot an email to BMWNA. The eggheads over there will have a good holiday laugh, joke with each other about how "stupid some of these owners are", and send back some boiler plate reply about "How they're looking into it".

No, I'm not a software engineer for BMW. Yes, I AM a software engineer. And I deal with end users. So I know all the outlandish unreasonable demands they make. Like yours. And I know that if we wanted to satisfy them all, any program would be 3TB, have a million options that'll completely confound the average user, and cost 3 times as much due to all the debugging/beta testing it'd take.

You're not just opening and closing a door. I doubt the lights stay on if you just opened the passenger door and closed it. You're opening, starting the car FROM THE WRONG SIDE, turning on the front and rear lights IN YOUR GARAGE, stopping it, and then closing the door WITHOUT LOCKING.

Christ, it's a wonder your CA didn't toss you out of the dealership for being such an obnoxious obstinate fool.
Since you have nothing intelligent to add, please drive on.

Your "outlandish unreasonable" demanding customers need your attention more than this thread.

Oh, and if you think the Linux/BSD based code for the F30 is 3TB, you really have no clue. Not even close.

I don't think he said the code is 3TB. I think he said it would be 3TB if BMW incorporated additional logic to handle all normal scenarios and all corner case scenarios. Or, words that effect.
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      12-22-2012, 10:34 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claykin View Post
I highly doubt they put a CCA type load when testing the battery for low signaling.
I'm sure that's exactly what they do. It would be kind of a pointless feature if it didn't reserve enough power to start the car on a cold day, wouldn't it? Now, they may not reserve enough power to always cater to extreme situations, so if you live in an area where it occasionally drops to -20 I would be more careful, particularly in the latter years of the battery's life. But in more moderate temperatures? I'm sure it'll start just fine.
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      12-22-2012, 04:50 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claykin View Post
I hear ya. And yup, I'm a guy so user manuals are a last resort.

As a car ages so does its CCA of the battery. Just because BMW can monitor the slow discharge rate does not mean the battery will have the CCA's to start the car. I'm sure they do a good job monitoring the battery, but all they can do is go by the law of averages. I highly doubt they put a CCA type load when testing the battery for low signaling.

Thx for your reply.
hey thanks for the reply and I agree on the CCA monitoring. I do know that from current discharge rate and charge up time that a batteries percent heath can be calculated like laptop batteries. I wonder if the car or BMW can tell you when the battery needs replacing based on the cars electronics or the data the car transmits to BMW. This does raise a concern for us on whether we can rely on their tech few years down the road. Hopefully a call to BMWNA can help!
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      12-22-2012, 07:33 PM   #37
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Funny enough, I can understand where he comes from. I'm a engineer and I like to test the intelligence of systems.

The best answer I got from one of the engineer in Germany is as follow;
You're not driving a 7-series.

There best, intelligent, system they first test in a 7-serie. Because like all engineers, they make mistakes, a lot of them. I also found it strange they did not check on the following scenario's;

- If no motion inside the car for 1 minute, no seat motion (FYI: ALL seats have sensors, including the drivers seat.) and you can CA, why not close the car for me? At last, give me that option. You know it, why not use it.
- This auto-lock, will also fix the issue stated above.
- If I lock the car, with the engine on and I keep it on for 15+ minutes. WHY do you not shutdown your engine? It IS possible, because AST does it already.
- Child-lock on the backdoors, are stupid. Childs are smart enough to pull that little lip down themselfs. It should be electronic, like the window-lock. Again, is IS possible. (Although EU regulations limit the use of electronic systems on door-locks for emergency cases, but I'm really against that kind of crap.)
- Full-Led light should stay on until the car is locked fully. Not when I exit the car by opening the door. It uses an assumption, that's wrong on every way.
- (personal taste; would be setting) Why should I press a start button after I'm in and losing 1/2 minute of running it already? The opening action should start it on automatic cars. And kill it if no action is taking accordingly.
- If I put my bluetooth connected mobile inside the car's phone-cardle-thing. You can count on it that I want to use it. Why ask me to disconnect the bluetooth and if I press "Ok" NOT AUTOMATICALLY CONNECT IT?

And I've another 10 in my head somewhere to be found
I hate the fact that there is no real feedback to BMW Engineers directly. We need to find contacts ourselfs to really give them feedback. While it should be BMW that needs to accept technical feedback from people outside the company. Like, some fresh look at the technical aspects of there system usage.

I understand those are all luxury extra's, and they are mostly. But everything that makes the car easier to use and easier to protect, it should be included. The same goes for LED blinkers. They should have been there.


Last edited by Rdx; 12-22-2012 at 07:40 PM.
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      12-22-2012, 08:02 PM   #38
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FWIW my 2013 ActiveHybrid will shut off the ignition if you leave the car and take the keys with you. As soon as you step out, the engine goes from READY to OFF. So it seems like BMW is already implementing that on at least one model.
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      12-23-2012, 12:07 PM   #39
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So did you start locking your car yet?
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      12-23-2012, 03:04 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verbs View Post
So did you start locking your car yet?
In my locked and alarmed garage? Nope.

And guess what. My neighbor has a 2012 F07. I did same test on his car and the lights shut off after a minute or so.

Still think its intentional?
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      12-23-2012, 07:56 PM   #41
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I'm with the OP here -- this is not a feature; it's an oversight. The car should shut down in any circumstance other than being left with the parking lights (either one or both sides) switched on. There is no imaginable "feature" that requires DRLs to be on when the car is unoccupied (i.e., no key present) and the ignition is switched off.
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      12-26-2012, 05:27 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claykin
Quote:
Originally Posted by verbs View Post
So did you start locking your car yet?
In my locked and alarmed garage? Nope.

And guess what. My neighbor has a 2012 F07. I did same test on his car and the lights shut off after a minute or so.

Still think its intentional?
Alarms are easy to trip and locks are easy to open. Pour a little engine oil on your garage floor and you can basically push the car out with one hand. Then flatbed/tow it all in a matter of minutes. At 6am you wont even know what hit you. This is an old technique - im sure thieves are much more sophisticated now. Shit i dont even leave my golf clubs in the trunk overnight!
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      12-26-2012, 05:28 AM   #43
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Ill try it out on my car when i can. And why wouldnt the start button turn on idrive? Everything else we all own starts up with the power button no?
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      01-06-2013, 01:35 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claykin View Post

Beware as you don't want a dead battery in the AM.
Managed to confuse my F31 today and after even locking all the lights and radio and iDrive display stayed on, but thanks to this post I went back (after a few mins to see what would happen) and turned ignition on the off again then locked and everything went off as it should. So saved a problem for the morning!
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