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      01-16-2013, 12:52 PM   #1
jsl1419
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Build quality comparison F30 vs MB C250

BMW tech said F30 build quality is the worst he ever seen. Here is an example.
Hopefully, It could be an answer for excessive road and wind noise, rattle and creaks...

One of the photo shows BMW changed the location of clip holder in the last moment of production then didn't delete the old one.

1. Very thin sheet metal (compared to MB) with vinyl vapor barrier vs. solid sheet metal with riveted stainless steel inside cover (rubber sealant in between)
2. Recycled material for door trim (filmsy) without insulation vs. Reinforced ABS plastic with 3M thinsulate damping material.
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Last edited by jsl1419; 01-16-2013 at 01:32 PM.
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      01-16-2013, 12:55 PM   #2
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Would be nice if each picture tols us what we're looking at and gave us a comparison between what's good and why this is bad.
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      01-16-2013, 12:56 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtuds
Would be nice if each picture tols us what we're looking at and gave us a comparison between what's good and why this is bad.
+1 :
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      01-16-2013, 01:15 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtuds View Post
Would be nice if each picture tols us what we're looking at and gave us a comparison between what's good and why this is bad.
+1

Road noise wouldn't come through the door panels for the most part, and wind noise would be down to the aerodynamics of the mirrors and door pillars, etc. - more of a design issue I'd say. I'm guessing the bottom pic shows soundproofing felt on a Merc door? (NB, felt only deals with certain frequencies). Can't really see what soundproofing materials are present inside the BMW door
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      01-16-2013, 01:24 PM   #5
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I don't rate mercs at all, I think of the big 3 ( BMW merc Audi) merc are the worst.
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      01-16-2013, 01:26 PM   #6
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What is this thread about? Which pictures shows what? I have no idea what to look for. Sounds like a MB troll.
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      01-16-2013, 01:30 PM   #7
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I don't see any rust spots on the door interior...bonus in my book!
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      01-16-2013, 01:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobUK View Post
+1

Road noise wouldn't come through the door panels for the most part, and wind noise would be down to the aerodynamics of the mirrors and door pillars, etc. - more of a design issue I'd say. I'm guessing the bottom pic shows soundproofing felt on a Merc door? (NB, felt only deals with certain frequencies). Can't really see what soundproofing materials are present inside the BMW door
Tech said there is couple of holder for sounddamping material like F10 but nothing in there. He said BMW putting it later sometimes.
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      01-16-2013, 02:13 PM   #9
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F30: causes of excessive wind noise

According to the Technical Manager @ my dealer, there have been a few complaints from owners of early production cars of excessive wind noises. The causes have been either misaligned windshield (it only takes a 1mm shift to produce excessive noise), driver's side mirror or B pillar trim.

My 335i (mid-October build) is very quiet on the highway.

As for your comment about build quality, I have been told that warranty claims for F30 are substantially less than they were for E90. My own observations, comparing previous E90s that I owned to my F30-335i, suggest that the build quality has been improved. For example, the paint finish is flawless on my F30, the interior trim is of a higher quality and the doors shut with a more solid feeling thunk than the E90 doors.

When comparing the body shells of E90 and F30, the F30 feels more robust on the road and it rides better. The body structure of the F30 has been substantially strengthened over that of the E90 - that's why the F30 feels more robust !!!

Over the past 25+ years, between my wife and I, we have owned several MBs and more than a dozen BMWs. The MBs have always been more problematic with many repeat visits required to fix annoying issues (eg. faulty auto transmission, rattles and squeaks). I would never go back to MB because of the lousy and very expensive service offered by their factory owned dealerships.
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Last edited by DerekS; 01-16-2013 at 02:47 PM.
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      01-16-2013, 02:24 PM   #10
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My Dec build 328i has no wind noise issues. You think BMWs are plagued by problems, go check the MB forums. My rental 2011 E350 had a check engine light that blinked on and off every few hours.

There's a reason why BMW let's customers go into and sit in their cars at auto shows, while MB keeps all their vehicles locked, and it's not cause MB is afraid their interior is ugly.
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      01-16-2013, 02:36 PM   #11
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This is a silly thread.

The F30 is a new platform with later assembly techniques and being compared to pictures with assumptions that the pictures elude to build quality compared to the aging C class MB. Just silly.

example: The C has an outdated sound material stuck on the door panel and as you see the F30 has the sound material actually molded into the door panel itself.

Stats like reliability(skewed when comparing new launches to old models) and measured sound levels. See that is a bit more scientific.
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      01-16-2013, 02:44 PM   #12
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FYI, Integral Audio took apart my car to do acoustic measurements, just as they did on the E90.

They said it came apart and went together with quality, in their opinion just as good as the E90. They did not find any decrease in build quality at all.
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      01-16-2013, 02:58 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
This is a silly thread.

The F30 is a new platform with later assembly techniques and being compared to pictures with assumptions that the pictures elude to build quality compared to the aging C class MB. Just silly.

example: The C has an outdated sound material stuck on the door panel and as you see the F30 has the sound material actually molded into the door panel itself.

Stats like reliability(skewed when comparing new launches to old models) and measured sound levels. See that is a bit more scientific.
I agree and the OP is driving an X3 which may be the crappiest BMW ever built.
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      01-16-2013, 03:34 PM   #14
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MB are built well, maybe a bit more refined in the 3 series/C segment. But i think the C mercs body looks old and the trademark front is ugly compared to BMW. That said they are 2 are completely different machines with different purposes. Mercs are cruisers, BMW are bruisers lol
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      01-16-2013, 03:39 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buildbright View Post
I agree and the OP is driving an X3 which may be the crappiest BMW ever built.
+1 troll. Mine has no rattles or creaks (like the E46 was prone to--especially the windows if you didn't keep the seals lubed).

Driving the F30 for the first time after owning 2 E46s, it seemed scary quiet.
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      01-16-2013, 03:44 PM   #16
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Build quality? Don't get me started, see pictures for proof

picture2 happened on 3 out 4 hooks lol
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      01-16-2013, 03:48 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsuyoi View Post
My Dec build 328i has no wind noise issues. You think BMWs are plagued by problems, go check the MB forums. My rental 2011 E350 had a check engine light that blinked on and off every few hours.

There's a reason why BMW let's customers go into and sit in their cars at auto shows, while MB keeps all their vehicles locked, and it's not cause MB is afraid their interior is ugly.
+1. The lady in the office next to me bought two brand new e350's last year and one has already had the engine rebuilt and the other had the transmission rebuilt. eep!

I try not to talk about my BMW problems around her...
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      01-16-2013, 03:51 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wkwlb View Post
Build quality? Don't get me started, see pictures for proof

picture2 happened on 3 out 4 hooks lol
these are small...plus how often do you stare at those spots? i work for a auto company and trust me, lot of stuff gets let go...no car is perfect and that goes for bmw.

if u keep looking, u will always find something, instead enjoy what u got...
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      01-16-2013, 04:04 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godfather87 View Post
these are small...plus how often do you stare at those spots? i work for a auto company and trust me, lot of stuff gets let go...no car is perfect and that goes for bmw.

if u keep looking, u will always find something, instead enjoy what u got...
Yep, not making a big fuss about these small issues.

The first 2 were purely assembly errors, aka the assembly workers were neither skilled nor careful enough. These are parts which I can easily spot, now I am just worried about those I can't see under the chassis.

BTW I also have squeaking rear doors, big time, even on normal driving on very flat roads. My local dealer here in Singapore is making me wait for 3 weeks just to get an appointment for fix. This car is made in SA FYI.
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      01-16-2013, 04:14 PM   #20
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It could just be me but after driving an F31 for a couple of months I find the materials used slightly inferior to the E9x but the way it's screwed together much better. Win/win for BMW I guess.
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      01-17-2013, 12:37 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsl1419
BMW tech said F30 build quality is the worst he ever seen. Here is an example.
Hopefully, It could be an answer for excessive road and wind noise, rattle and creaks...

One of the photo shows BMW changed the location of clip holder in the last moment of production then didn't delete the old one.

1. Very thin sheet metal (compared to MB) with vinyl vapor barrier vs. solid sheet metal with riveted stainless steel inside cover (rubber sealant in between)
2. Recycled material for door trim (filmsy) without insulation vs. Reinforced ABS plastic with 3M thinsulate damping material.
I have always said, BMW does not build cars, rather BMW builds machines that build cars.

There is a distinction.

You don't listen to random tracks of a great production. Rather, you hear the composite results of a beautiful mixdown and mastering of all of the tracks.

Soloing the snare drum track of Rush's Tom Sawyer tells you nothing of its greatness.

Roll the master tape and it blows your mind.

Same here. BMW is not the inside of a door panel; rather, your BMW is the entire car standing for what it is---an intense marvel of engineering built by a machine; yet, augmented to a very limited extent by people.

It is the people part that leads to failures, but if every BMW worked flawlessly to its published specification then we would be left with a dull, monochromatic world with nothing special about it.

Without the big fatsos in this world, we would all be big fatsos.
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      01-17-2013, 10:58 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
It is the people part that leads to failures, but if every BMW worked flawlessly to its published specification then we would be left with a dull, monochromatic world with nothing special about it.
I think it's safe to say that most people would like their $50k car to work flawlessly.
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