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      01-16-2013, 01:46 PM   #265
rich100
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In the Uk its a little different, the 320i is not the entry level, here there are both 316 and 318 models, so I guess here the 320 Is more mid range than entry level.

From reading the posts however one of the main differences seems to be that you can get spec it in the various different trim lines including msport.

I agree with one of the previous posts though and I'm not sure why bmw didn't push this to maybe 210 bhp as there does seem to be a big gap between this and the 328i

I'm a bit torn between the two but the 328 is about 4k more and whilst I have no doubt the extra power would be great to have, the costs obviously starts to creep up when you start adding various options.

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      01-16-2013, 05:18 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by Frencholivier View Post
Oh and
This is a great base car, even a great car period. You don't get top-of-the line features (no lines) and it's a 1-sec slower to 60 compared to the 328i... yeah, but you get a very attractive 320i for $38,000 MSRP, whereas the equivalent build on the 328i is $44,000. So we're not talking about $3,000 difference, but $6,000 (in my builds).

Yeap the ones I priced;
On bmwusa.com;

320i, sport & lighting packs, moonroof and heated seats; 37195$
328 sportline, lighting pack, moonroof and heated seats; 42695$

5500$+txs+financing difference is substantial.
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      01-16-2013, 05:28 PM   #267
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The variance need not be that big. As we all know, cars with 28i are regularly dyno'ed with much more than 245ps. It can very simply be that anything less than 245ps on the factory bench will be destined as a 20i, & anything more a 28i.
BMW claims the 20i have 184ps & the 28i have 245ps, those are only factory claims (i.e. minimum baseline) & it's perfectly fine to beat those figures on a regular basis. There are evidence that the 20i have more than 184ps, e.g. Autozeitung tested a 520i & recorded 0-100 time of 7.3s.
Well.. but if the peak of the distribution is really around 240HP, and you cut it below, say, 230HP, then the mean of that distribution will be very close to the cutoff, and will be 30~40HP more than the claimed 180HP. Are you saying that the 320i ON AVERAGE will put out 30~40 HP more than the factory claim? That would basically give it the same performance as the 328i, whereas the gap is much more significant. Sorry, I think it's an interesting theory but it just doesn't make sense to me.
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      01-16-2013, 06:07 PM   #268
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Interesting to see how well the 320i sells in the US. In the UK, it's pretty rare to see 320i (E90 or F30), most cars on the road will be 320d or 318d.

Considering petrol in the UK is about 1.35 a litre (diesel a few pence more), comes to an eye watering 6.07 a gallon ($9.72), you can see why diesel is so popular, when it can theatrically return 60mpg and lower annual road tax.
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      01-16-2013, 11:26 PM   #269
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Well.. but if the peak of the distribution is really around 240HP, and you cut it below, say, 230HP, then the mean of that distribution will be very close to the cutoff, and will be 30~40HP more than the claimed 180HP. Are you saying that the 320i ON AVERAGE will put out 30~40 HP more than the factory claim? That would basically give it the same performance as the 328i, whereas the gap is much more significant. Sorry, I think it's an interesting theory but it just doesn't make sense to me.
As I said before, the 28i regularly measures on the dyno that are much more than 245ps. For the 20i it can easily be around 200ps.
For those that are below 245ps it will be badged as 20i but it won't offer the full power cos they'll detune it to a lower level. U can tune it back up but at most it'll be near the 28i's baseline.
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      01-16-2013, 11:28 PM   #270
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Interesting to see how well the 320i sells in the US. In the UK, it's pretty rare to see 320i (E90 or F30), most cars on the road will be 320d or 318d.

Considering petrol in the UK is about 1.35 a litre (diesel a few pence more), comes to an eye watering 6.07 a gallon ($9.72), you can see why diesel is so popular, when it can theatrically return 60mpg and lower annual road tax.
It depends on markets. For some EU countries diesel is much more expensive than petrol, & also taxes are different. For UK the tax structure is biased towards diesel so it makes more sense buying diesel.
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      01-17-2013, 12:25 AM   #271
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Australian dollars ARE different from American dollars, you know.
Yeah I know the Australian dollar is stronger than the U.S
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      01-17-2013, 12:53 AM   #272
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I see bunch of 335i owners do that too. Even some M3 owners drives like that in Bay area.

I don't think 320i will be immune to immature drivers. But i think you are exaggerating.
I never specifically targeted the 320i I said it will attract more immature drivers to the platform.
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      01-17-2013, 01:06 AM   #273
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unless this thing can push 40mpgs I can't get excited. I just built one online, properly configured it's over 45k. Not worth it.
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      01-17-2013, 08:19 AM   #274
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarence
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitster View Post
Interesting to see how well the 320i sells in the US. In the UK, it's pretty rare to see 320i (E90 or F30), most cars on the road will be 320d or 318d.

Considering petrol in the UK is about 1.35 a litre (diesel a few pence more), comes to an eye watering 6.07 a gallon ($9.72), you can see why diesel is so popular, when it can theatrically return 60mpg and lower annual road tax.
It depends on markets. For some EU countries diesel is much more expensive than petrol, & also taxes are different. For UK the tax structure is biased towards diesel so it makes more sense buying diesel.
Still need to factor in the price of the car though. 320d is more expensive to buy from the outset, so if you,re only doing a low mileage them probably makes sense to stick with petrol.

For higher mileages or company car drivers, agree its probably a no brainer to go diesel
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      01-17-2013, 09:04 PM   #275
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Great!! Like if there is not enough bimmers out there!? This will make it worse! Thank you BMW ! now everybody is going to have one!
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      01-18-2013, 01:47 AM   #276
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Not into tuning so if I say something that's wrong, please correct me.

If you were into tuning, why wouldn't you pick a 320 over a 328? I get that the N20 in the 328 isn't the same as the N20 in the 320 but surely they're capable of the same thing. The difference in price looks to be about $4k in the US and about $6k+ in Canada. To me, that's a whole lot of money saved that could go towards aftermarket parts/mods. Sure, the 320 is basically a stripped out 3-Series but isn't that what tuners want anyway? They don't care about all the tech and luxuries.

I keep thinking, is there really a reason to go for a 335 unless you really wanted a I6 or doing some extreme tuning a N20 is not capable of handling? It's like comparing a M3 to the M3 GTS. I'm pretty sure the price difference between the two (60k vs. approx 170k with conversion), you put towards the base M3 to make it as close to a GTS as possible and still save money.
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      01-18-2013, 03:26 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by 宝马.e90 View Post
If you were into tuning, why wouldn't you pick a 320 over a 328? I get that the N20 in the 328 isn't the same as the N20 in the 320 but surely they're capable of the same thing.

I keep thinking, is there really a reason to go for a 335 unless you really wanted a I6 or doing some extreme tuning a N20 is not capable of handling? It's like comparing a M3 to the M3 GTS. I'm pretty sure the price difference between the two (60k vs. approx 170k with conversion), you put towards the base M3 to make it as close to a GTS as possible and still save money.
So far no tuner has ever managed to match the output of a 28i using a 20i engine.
TBH there's absolutely no reason to go for a 335i over a 328i unless u must have the straight 6 sound or u live in Germany. The 328i in stock form is already faster than a lot of cars on the road & it has sweeter handling than the 335i.
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      01-18-2013, 08:27 AM   #278
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Great!! Like if there is not enough bimmers out there!? This will make it worse! Thank you BMW ! now everybody is going to have one!
As someone above put it... OH NO THE PEASANTS WILL DRIVE BMWs TOO
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      01-18-2013, 09:43 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by clarence View Post
So far no tuner has ever managed to match the output of a 28i using a 20i engine.
TBH there's absolutely no reason to go for a 335i over a 328i unless u must have the straight 6 sound or u live in Germany. The 328i in stock form is already faster than a lot of cars on the road & it has sweeter handling than the 335i.
you gotta take a chill pill man just because u want to justify to yourself that you bought a 328i doesnt mean you have to go around bashing the 320i and 335i
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      01-18-2013, 09:44 AM   #280
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As someone above put it... OH NO THE PEASANTS WILL DRIVE BMWs TOO
Think there's a lot of Bimmers here, go to Munich.
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      01-18-2013, 11:09 AM   #281
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you gotta take a chill pill man just because u want to justify to yourself that you bought a 328i doesnt mean you have to go around bashing the 320i and 335i
When did I ever start bashing either cars?
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      01-19-2013, 01:14 AM   #282
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Hertz just called BMW to line up a fleet of cheap BMW rental cars.
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      01-19-2013, 01:22 PM   #283
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Do you have any idea how thrilled I'd be if I could rent a 320i when I'm on the road? I hate having to drive a Cadillac or Infinity when I travel.
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      01-20-2013, 09:50 AM   #284
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As I said before, the 28i regularly measures on the dyno that are much more than 245ps. For the 20i it can easily be around 200ps.
For those that are below 245ps it will be badged as 20i but it won't offer the full power cos they'll detune it to a lower level. U can tune it back up but at most it'll be near the 28i's baseline.
It is impossible that BMW bins the N20 such that if an engine makes <245hp, it is a 20i or if an engine makes >245hp, it is a 28i.

This is because...20i and 28i ARE DIFFERENT ENGINE.

While many MAY think and claim that the 20i and 28i are exactly the same engine, bulk of the 20i around are on 11:1 compression ratio. 28i are 10.1:1. These engines have different part number.

Only those 20i (135kw) engines with the low compression option will have the exact part numbers as the 180kw version of the engine. In this case, it is the dme software that will limit your power. Apparently, a dme swop can bring it back to 180kw. Of course, there is still the intercooler and exhaust diameter...

My opinion: Ideally, a 135kw version can be tuned to perform just like a tuned 28i engine, i.e. near 300hp. The reason why the 20i version does not chip to near 300hp like the 28i does is because of limp mode. Why limp mode? I don't know. What I know is that beyond a certain level of extra boost, a 20i goes into limp mode. Similarly 28i engine goes into limp mode if really pushed. I suspect it is the dme interferring.
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      01-20-2013, 12:22 PM   #285
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It is impossible that BMW bins the N20 such that if an engine makes <245hp, it is a 20i or if an engine makes >245hp, it is a 28i.

This is because...20i and 28i ARE DIFFERENT ENGINE.

While many MAY think and claim that the 20i and 28i are exactly the same engine, bulk of the 20i around are on 11:1 compression ratio. 28i are 10.1:1. These engines have different part number.

Only those 20i (135kw) engines with the low compression option will have the exact part numbers as the 180kw version of the engine. In this case, it is the dme software that will limit your power. Apparently, a dme swop can bring it back to 180kw. Of course, there is still the intercooler and exhaust diameter...

My opinion: Ideally, a 135kw version can be tuned to perform just like a tuned 28i engine, i.e. near 300hp. The reason why the 20i version does not chip to near 300hp like the 28i does is because of limp mode. Why limp mode? I don't know. What I know is that beyond a certain level of extra boost, a 20i goes into limp mode. Similarly 28i engine goes into limp mode if really pushed. I suspect it is the dme interferring.
if that is really the case the 20i should make higher power boost for boost. higher compression=higher power. Just that it cannot take too much boost
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      01-20-2013, 04:11 PM   #286
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It is impossible that BMW bins the N20 such that if an engine makes <245hp, it is a 20i or if an engine makes >245hp, it is a 28i.

This is because...20i and 28i ARE DIFFERENT ENGINE.

While many MAY think and claim that the 20i and 28i are exactly the same engine, bulk of the 20i around are on 11:1 compression ratio. 28i are 10.1:1. These engines have different part number.
They're identical in terms of design, the only difference is the variance in terms of quality. What determines the different part numbers? Not the design in this case.
The part numbers of the short engine is identical & it's only the earlier 320i's that have different turbos.
The compression ratio is different on the F30 but on the E84 & F25 they're the same. The tuners do not make a distinction between either "versions" of the engine.
The full engine type numbers of the 20i & 28i are N20B20U0 & N20B20O0. The N & U only signifies the state of tune & there's nth to suggest they're different in any sense.
It isn't simply limp mode on the 20i or anything cos so far ALL tuners managed to get only around 220ps from the 20i. None have to far reached the stock output of a 28i.
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