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      12-27-2012, 08:54 PM   #1
EspeciallyinMI
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I just traded my X5 in on a 2013 335i xDrive and have been looking forward to testing it in the snow. The horrible storm that hit the Midwest yesterday gave me the chance. Amazing traction (all season Continentals), especially going 30 MPH on a snow-covered expressway using EcoPro. Always felt in control. Don't miss the X5 at all. Similar stories, anyone?
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      12-27-2012, 10:25 PM   #2
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Yeah I got to test it out also during this storm. I was really impressed how the car handled especially since it has Pirelli all-season tires on.

Was passing practically everyone on the road and freeways.
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      12-28-2012, 12:08 AM   #3
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How is it stopping and taking turns? Disappointed in the good-year all-seasons on my wife's X3, slides when trying to stop in snow like it's on ice blocks, so I just ordered some winter wheels and tires for it. Hoping to use the 18" all seasons that come on my 335 for winter and get a summer set (19's probably).
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      12-28-2012, 09:05 AM   #4
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Just trade my e90 for a F30. Live near Montreal, just got the second storm of more than 15in of snow. Got Sottozero winter tires and traction is amazing. Even compare e90, traction distribution on differant wheels is done perfeclty. And notthing compare the Subarus I got...
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      12-28-2012, 10:09 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EspeciallyinMI View Post
I just traded my X5 in on a 2013 335i xDrive and have been looking forward to testing it in the snow. The horrible storm that hit the Midwest yesterday gave me the chance. Amazing traction (all season Continentals) was amazing, especially going 30 MPH on a snow-covered expressway using EcoPro. Always felt in control. Don't miss the X5 at all. Similar stories, anyone?
+1
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      12-28-2012, 10:59 AM   #6
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My Pirelli all-seasons do fine in the turns and braking, no sliding like on blocks of ice as described above.
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      12-28-2012, 12:21 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EspeciallyinMI View Post
I just traded my X5 in on a 2013 335i xDrive and have been looking forward to testing it in the snow. The horrible storm that hit the Midwest yesterday gave me the chance. Amazing traction (all season Continentals) was amazing, especially going 30 MPH on a snow-covered expressway using EcoPro. Always felt in control. Don't miss the X5 at all. Similar stories, anyone?
hey so what wheels did you get, and is it square set up?

thanks
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      12-29-2012, 07:30 AM   #8
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It's the AWD xDrive system, not the tires and wheels, that's making the difference here.

Old schoolers will never give up the RWD ghost, but like it or not the F30's xDrive has the traditional RWD feel with superb traction when needed. If you can afford it it's a no-brainier.
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      12-29-2012, 07:52 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Ron Scott View Post
Old schoolers will never give up the RWD ghost, but like it or not the F30's xDrive has the traditional RWD feel with superb traction when needed. If you can afford it it's a no-brainier.
I dont think it has anything to do with a RWD ghost

I think Xdrive has it place as an option and helps increase sales to those who would look at other brands (Audi) but I cannot think of a BMW (other than SAVs) that the Xdrive version was considered the better performance choice?

Last edited by BMWinGE; 12-29-2012 at 02:44 PM.
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      12-29-2012, 07:58 AM   #10
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It's the AWD xDrive system, not the tires and wheels, that's making the difference here.
If you consider that the only part of the car that touches the road is the tires, you may rethink that statement. I see you are a lieutenant. Imagine an M1 Abrams with slicks vs tracks/tread/links (whatever your preferred euphemism is).
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      12-29-2012, 08:13 AM   #11
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xDrive makes you more stable in turns in slippery conditions because it pretty dramatically reduces the possibility of rear wheel spin causing you to oversteer. It also makes it a lot harder for you to get stuck and makes it much easier to go up hills.

Braking in the show is pretty much 100% tires though.

I got caught in the same winter weather a lot of the other posters in the US did and my xDrive was great, much better than the RWD car I had on equivalent tires in similar conditions.
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      12-29-2012, 08:46 AM   #12
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Amy truth to my observation that EcoPro seems to be the best mode for smow-covered roads, or am I just maling this up?

To Roki_14: I have Continental ComtiProContact 225-45 18's on all 4.
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      12-29-2012, 09:09 AM   #13
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Braking in the snow is pretty much 100% tires though.
Braking and turning are where proper winter tires will come into play. xDrive won't do anything to help you stop or turn better in the snow.
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      12-29-2012, 09:22 AM   #14
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Braking and turning are where proper winter tires will come into play. xDrive won't do anything to help you stop or turn better in the snow.
Very true. xDrive helps when the gas pedal is involved... otherwise, tires make all the difference.
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      12-29-2012, 11:20 AM   #15
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. . . xDrive helps when the gas pedal is involved...
And only when the drive wheels would otherwise be slipping, such as starting out at an intersection in very slippery conditions or excessive throttle. xDrive does nothing otherwise, despite the marketing myths surrounding AWD.
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      12-29-2012, 12:34 PM   #16
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^ Your describing AWD, not sure where your trying to go with your comment? AWD enhances traction in all situations and speeds.

Seems like the guys that didn't get xDrive love bashing it for some reason.
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      12-29-2012, 01:19 PM   #17
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You guys are missing the point enTIREly, IMO.

Sure, you can separate discrete road conditions to find which car component contributes to traction, but the bottom line is twofold, again IMO and I've driven a number of 2000+ RWD 3s including and F30, in addition to my F30 335 DHP xDrive:

1. The F30 xDrive delivers 99% of what older RWDs did in terms of feel and steer.
2. The F30 xDrive kicks the living shit out of RWD in actual, real-time slippery conditions regardless of what tires you're switching back-and-forth all year round on your RWD.

I find it very hard to believe people who are putting the F30 xDrive and F30 RWD to head-to-head tests in all conditions think the RWD is the better performer in all conditions.

Last edited by Ron Scott; 12-29-2012 at 01:27 PM.
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      12-29-2012, 01:33 PM   #18
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I loved my 328xi in the snow. It went places I never thought it would go. Had to go with RWD on the '09 and '13 because I just could not justify AWD for the 2 or 3 times a year that I would need it. With the F30, I've got a square setup of Blizzacks and she's been fine in the 3 snowstorms we've had so far this winter.
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      12-29-2012, 01:47 PM   #19
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I think that for most people, most of the time, there is no difference between Xdrive and RWD, either in terms of handling or bad weather capabilities. That’s because most people drive nowhere near the limits of their cars and also tend to drive when the weather is OK. (Some stay home when the weather is bad, and road conditions are generally good more often than they are bad for most U.S. drivers.)

But for those who drive hard or those who face shitty roads frequently or in connection with their jobs, it does make a difference, and presumably these folks make their choices accordingly.

For others more in the middle (me included), it’s really just about which way to err. I’ll see bad roads more often than I’ll push this car to its limits. So, given that fuel economy is a push, and I can afford the difference, the choice was easy (except for the lack of a manual in the 328 with Xdrive, which is a different point). However, I could easily see someone in Florida who drives a little harder than I do making a different call.

Like lease versus buy, one size doesn’t fit all.
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      12-29-2012, 02:15 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Scott View Post
You guys are missing the point enTIREly, IMO.

Sure, you can separate discrete road conditions to find which car component contributes to traction, but the bottom line is twofold, again IMO and I've driven a number of 2000+ RWD 3s including and F30, in addition to my F30 335 DHP xDrive:

1. The F30 xDrive delivers 99% of what older RWDs did in terms of feel and steer.
2. The F30 xDrive kicks the living shit out of RWD in actual, real-time slippery conditions regardless of what tires you're switching back-and-forth all year round on your RWD.

I find it very hard to believe people who are putting the F30 xDrive and F30 RWD to head-to-head tests in all conditions think the RWD is the better performer in all conditions.
I don't think we are missing the point. What we are saying is that xDrive only enhances traction on acceleration. Braking and turning traction is the same for RWD and xDrive. Therefore, tires decide what car will perform better under braking and turning. xDrive only gives a clear advantage in 1 out of 3 areas the car needs to perform in poor weather. The other two are determined by tire choice. Overall, the xDrive car will perform better in bad conditions because it has the advantage in acceleration. Given similar tires, the xDrive car will accelerate better, turn equally as well and brake equally as well... therefore, overall better. If the xDrive had all seasons, it would still likely accelerate better but stop and turn less well than a RWD car with winters. Overall, maybe still better because getting going is important... but so is stopping An xDrive car with winter tires is as good or better in every winter related condition.

Also, your point that the xDrive car is 99% of the feel and performance of the RWD car is true during daily commuting but not in aggressive driving IMO. I have also spent a lot of time in AWD cars (not just xDrive cars) and there is absolutely a difference in feel, performance and mostly fun factor IMO. Go to the track in an RS5 and then in an M3 and tell me which one is more fun regardless of actual lap times

Also, the extra weight of xDrive, non staggered tires and the increased ride height (although this is largely cosmetic) will impact handling in summer. Is it hugely different, no. Would it be noticeable in aggressive driving, yes. Is it relevant in day to day commutes, no. Many people enjoy driving their car aggressively and the RWD bias is absolutely noticeable. If you don't notice it, that is because you aren't pushing the car hard enough. RWD cars are a challenge and very fun to drive hard. xDrive takes away some of that in the summer. It may not matter to everyone but it does to some.

At the end of the day, I'm not suggesting that a RWD is better than an xDrive car but they are different in their dynamics and there is no disputing that in my mind. I may go with the AWD variant of the next car I buy so I am, in fact, a fan of the concept. However, there are small comprises one makes to go AWD in any car during summer months when the roads are clear and dry and that is a fact. People then need to decide which is more important given their driving style and weather conditions.
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Last edited by gthal; 12-29-2012 at 02:45 PM.
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      12-29-2012, 02:30 PM   #21
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^ Your describing AWD, not sure where your trying to go with your comment? AWD enhances traction in all situations and speeds.

Seems like the guys that didn't get xDrive love bashing it for some reason.
It does NOT help traction in cornering (unless you are accelerating) or in braking. It ONLY helps traction when the gas pedal is involved. Press the brake pedal... how does xDrive help? Turn the steering wheel... how does xDrive help?

No one is bashing xDrive... I'm a fan myself... all people are doing is pointing out the compromises involved in BOTH an xDrive car AND a RWD car. That and how tires help both cars because xDrive can't overcome the limitations of all season tires in certain circumstances (turning and stopping). The person buying needs to decide which option is more important to them.
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Last edited by gthal; 12-29-2012 at 02:46 PM.
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      12-29-2012, 02:47 PM   #22
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^ So what happens when you exit a turn and give it gas in xDrive vs RWD, AWD can exit a corner faster.
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