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      01-18-2013, 09:17 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by pkim1079 View Post
Great car but RWD > AWD.
Wow, if this doesn't speak volumes I don't know what can. Coming from someone who had an AWD track monster.

Have you autocrossed your 328i yet?
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      01-18-2013, 10:07 PM   #24
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Overpriced VW, no visual appeal to me at least. I would compare a Merc
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      01-19-2013, 01:35 PM   #25
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I considered it but did not go and test drive it. Loved the interior and it had some neat features such as google maps and Bang and Olufsen sound system. But at the end of the day, when the vehicle is viewed from the side, it looks like a plain VW.
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      01-19-2013, 03:59 PM   #26
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      01-19-2013, 04:10 PM   #27
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I 'aspired' to an Audi a few years ago. Got one with all the bells and whistles but unfortunately it was the dullest car I've ever had the displeasure to own. A VW in a posh frock.
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      01-19-2013, 04:14 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MZ335 View Post
The S4 I considered, non-reduced, was significantly cheaper than a reduced F30. The BMW dealer I was dealing with wasn't really interested in negotiating for the BMW, so I bought the S4.

Then I went to the next town over and negotiated on the F30 and bought that one too.
Yeah Canada is a different market. Here in the US 335i is cheaper.

Next time you go to town can you drop by the dealer and buy me an F30 with your pocket change?
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      01-19-2013, 05:46 PM   #29
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I test drove the S4 twice.

- Felt heavier, bigger, less nimble
- MUCH more expensive lease payment. Residual was not as good as BMW.
- (opinion) F30 looks better inside and out
- That silver painted plastic around the instrument cluster was a huge turnoff, looks cheap
- S4 body style is OLD now. Likely to get a complete overhaul before the end of a lease, rather get the all new look of the BMW.
I have a 335 msport and disagree with almost every single thing said here as ive tracked both cars hard and have used them both for basic daily driving. Outside of audi generally having horrible lease deals and looking a little boring the S4 is much more of a drivers car imho.
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      01-19-2013, 06:03 PM   #30
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For the last 3 cars, I've looked at MB and Audi and keep coming back to BMW. The 3-series just looks better and drives better.
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      01-19-2013, 06:35 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webdither View Post
I test drove the S4 twice.

- Felt heavier, bigger, less nimble
- MUCH more expensive lease payment. Residual was not as good as BMW.
- (opinion) F30 looks better inside and out
- That silver painted plastic around the instrument cluster was a huge turnoff, looks cheap
- S4 body style is OLD now. Likely to get a complete overhaul before the end of a lease, rather get the all new look of the BMW.
All of this.

The worst part is how heave the S4 felt.
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      01-19-2013, 07:07 PM   #32
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I prefer the S4 seat leather quality. Like the smooth leather compared to the cheap looking stamped leather BMW uses (unless you get Individual which is not yet available on F30 in US). On the other hand, I suspect the BMW leather may wear better over time.

What I didn't care for was the very pronounced and slightly annoying exhaust note of the S4. Very noticeable inside the cabin and I think Audi went too far with it. That said, I think the F30 exhaust note is a bit tame compared to my E90.
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      01-19-2013, 11:44 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
If so, what was the deciding factor on not buying Audi? I am a longstanding BMW buyer, but I am curious what other BMW owners think?

F30 in XDrive loaded is in the same price range as the S4.
If you really want and need AWD I'd say go with the S4.
Audi's quattro is excellent.
Plus quattro actually improves the cars overall handling and performance whereas X drive lessens the 3's overall handling performance, at least in my experience and in reading reviews of X drive 3's.
Not saying X drive is bad. One benefit, besides allowing better snow driving, is that it helps off the line acceleration.
It's just not the famed BMW RWD performance, whereas quattro is what makes an Audi and Audi.

For the best handling 3 series I'd go RWD.
For the best handling Audi A4/S4 I'd go AWD.

The S4 is one very sweet sport sedan. I had an A4 sport 2006 and it was very fun to drive, GREAT in the snow.
Not as nimble as my 325i, 135i, or current 335i, but fun non the less.
The S4 is a stellar sport sedan. It readily beats the former and current 335i in performance reviews.
Awesome V6 supercharged engine. Equally kinda numb steering as the F30, but just as responsive and accurate.
Sport suspension feels a bit firmer than my 335i Msport, and I would prefer a firmer feel in my 335i.
Mechanically and driving/handling is as good as my 335i Msport, and maybe even a bit better.

But, what stopped me from getting the S4 was the seating comfort and a good bit higher lease payment for nearly the same MSRP and selling prices.
The S4 sport seats are quite nice, but they just sat too high and wouldn't go lower and I needed them too. I felt like I was sitting ON the car instead of IN it. That sucked as I put driver seat comfort as the #1 priority on my list of 'need/must have'.
Also, MPG isn't as good with the S4 compared to the F30 Xdrive and especially RWD 335i with sport AT.
Leasing was awful for the S4.
My 335i Msport has an MSRP of around $52K and with good negotiating and decent BMW incentives and great lease rates my monthly is around $512 tax included.
The S4 would have been in the mid $600's.

When you equip and option an S4 with an equivalent 335i Msport the 335i is more expensive.
335Xi Msport - MSRP: $54,520
335Xi Sport - MSRP: $53,020
S4 - MSRP: $52,470

The S4 is an excellent choice for an AWD sport sedan.
The 335Xi is also an excellent choice.
But since you asked which one, I pick the S4 for an AWD sport sedan.

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      01-19-2013, 11:54 PM   #34
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Audi Drive Select is a $4000 option in Canada. Seemed a bit insane to me.

Plus Audi interiors are boring and generic.
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      01-20-2013, 06:39 PM   #35
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i came from a 2011 S4 to the f30
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      01-20-2013, 08:25 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ianturner View Post
i came from a 2011 S4 to the f30
and?
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      01-20-2013, 08:47 PM   #37
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"According to Jeremy Clarkson (BBC Top Gear), cocks drive in Audi’s. He has always thought of BMW as uncool just because cocks drive in them. In 2008 he saw a turn-around. Cocks have traded in their BMW for an Audi making Audi, finally, the new ‘cock’-car."

Looked at an A4/S4, then ran.

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      01-21-2013, 09:56 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TreDirtyFive View Post
and?
i think coming to the f30 says it all. I went from e92 to s4 to f30.....

audi quattro is amazing, audi MMI/interior >iDrive/BMW interior....bmw driving > audi

i test drove a Xdrive car but bought a non X drive since i dont need AWD anymore.
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      01-21-2013, 06:37 PM   #39
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Yeah, I looked at it. All I saw was overpriced VW Jetta parts
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      01-21-2013, 06:49 PM   #40
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Owned an Audi once. Never again. Repair after repair. Even the service manager told me to get rid of it. Dealer was pretty good but Audi head office was brutal.
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      01-21-2013, 09:02 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TreDirtyFive View Post
I have a 335 msport and disagree with almost every single thing said here as ive tracked both cars hard and have used them both for basic daily driving. Outside of audi generally having horrible lease deals and looking a little boring the S4 is much more of a drivers car imho.


Interesting, it is hard to find a manual to test drive, I finally found one a 2012 s4, hoping to get some saddle time in the next week. I only want to own 2 cars so this is a f30 XDrive vs S4 debate.

Were you tracking a manual?
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      01-21-2013, 10:35 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seis-speed View Post
Interesting, it is hard to find a manual to test drive, I finally found one a 2012 s4, hoping to get some saddle time in the next week. I only want to own 2 cars so this is a f30 XDrive vs S4 debate.

Were you tracking a manual?
I'll jump in here since I was in a similar position cross shopping S4 vs EB2 335ix.

The engineer in me couldn't get away from the superiority of the drivetrain in the S4. It is more or less the same as the RS5 - including the crown center differential, active sports differential (made by ZF - BMW has this *as an option* in the x6/Mx5) and DSG. The RS models have much better suspension and brakes and of course bigger engines within segments - although the V8 requires you to keep the engine at boil to hit the sweet spot of the power band (probably same thing in M3).

The electronic clutch pack that makes up the x-drive is really not a center differential - ie torque sensing - and thus only clutches power (max 50-50) to the front when either (a) it's obvious - ie launch or heavy throttle application- (b) *after* traction has been lost. I'm not saying an electronic control system can't be awesome - ie evo - but usually performance AWD vehicles use torsen or mechanical LSD's - e.g. M3 has rear LSD. BMW is not in the business of making performance AWD vehicles, it seems like more of a safety/practicality feature to help sell cars in winter weather areas. Maybe this will change with an M5xdrive?

The weight is substantially greater - S4 (DCT) 3935 (lb) - 335i (AT) xdrive 3710 (lb) - 335i (AT) 3593 (lb) - 328ix (AT) 3596 (lb) - 328i (AT) 3461 (lb) (source)- but the supercharged V6 is noticeably torquier (is that a word?) and probably makes the torque/weight ratio about even - which doesn't change things in corners of course. The 50/50 weight distribution exists in the 328i, and the n55 + xdrive throws this off. I personally can't tell, but I only took the car on some limited test drives.

EDIT - Original curb weights were incorrect, added values for 328...

My guess is that if you were to track the cars, the S4 will devour brake pads due to heft and the BMW will do the same to rear brakes due to E-Diff brake steering.

I'm not even going into exterior/interior, because everyone seems to have a different opinion and in the end it's pretty personal. There is no way one can go wrong with either car, they both seem to be at the pinnacle of the segment. Audi being part of VW Auto Group would seem to be a strength from a manufacturing perspective - drive down prices across the board - do people consider Bugatti/Ferrari/Porsche to be overpriced jetta parts?!?!
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      01-21-2013, 10:54 PM   #43
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I really wanted to like the s4 more. I was a bit upset that I didn't. I like the way they look and the power. I think it was just too cramped and felt heavy. It was uncomfortable for me. I test drove the 335i and right away it felt much better. Better sound, better acceleration it seemed, and it felt way more tossable. I love the s4, I've had an a4 and a 2000 s4 and they were great. I just like the BMW more and BMW as a whole more.
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      01-21-2013, 11:24 PM   #44
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I just recently bought an A8L and love it and also recently leased 335i f30. I test drove the s4/s5 before going to the BMW dealership and the cars way to heavy. The low end torque felt like my old audi a4. Don't get me wrong the seats are amazing and the cars wonderful but by test driving these two cars an hour apart from each other you realize what car handles better
Feels faster
More comfortable
The s4 sounds way better though

I just recently bought my A8L and for me Audi is better for high end cars. LOVE MY AUDI A8. Wouldn't change it for ANYTHING. If you are looking for performance the 335i blows the s4 out of the water IMO.
The s4 felt like my A8L lol so heavy
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