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      01-18-2013, 01:05 PM   #1
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Looking to get into a 335Xi: E92 or F30

Hello all;

As the title states i am looking to get into a 335i with X-drive, just having trouble deciding if its worth getting the newer F30 model. I am pretty much set on a 335 over cars like the S4 or STi (even though been a Subaru driver for 7+ years). Anything with the M-sport package will be standard and won't settle for anything less than that, but in terms of the engine, drive train and suspension are there that many improvements to the F30? Not only in performance but reliability as well.

Biggest thing I've read is that the F30 chassis is 30% stiffer than its predecessor, which could be nice as I am more about the handling than power. Mods could come into play but not right off the bat, nothing much more than an accessport as i still like to keep this a DD and have my GC for the track/auto-x.

Another big factor is price, F30 models can cost $20K more than a 2011 model in Alberta right now and just need to know if they are really worth it.

Any input would be greatly appreciated;
Thanks
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      01-18-2013, 01:20 PM   #2
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Here's my 2 cents - having owned an E90, and driven the F30 a couple of times (both 335i's and sport pkg equipped). And this is IMO, coz' I don't want to be flamed....this being the F30 board..

The E90/92 seems to me to be more of a sport/handling focused car, where as the F30 seems more of a luxury/slightly softer feel oriented car. The biggest difference to me was from the steering feel perspective - the E90 steering is 'alive' and IMO provides the legendary BMW steering feedback, whereas the F30 steering is very light (almost numb IMO). From a power/acceleration perspective, both should be similar, though the earlier N54 engined cars kick more ass. From an fuel economy perspective, the F30 is better (at least per EPA), and also from an interior perspective it seems to be more luxurious (not necessary better materials ). Exterior looks are subjective - I especially like the Estoril Blue M SPort cars - they are really pretty.

It really is a very personal preference oriented thing - I would suggest you drive both and make up your mind. For someone like me, I would find it hard to go from E90 to F30, but as you will see here, there are a few who will swear they prefer the F30.

So go drive both
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      01-18-2013, 04:05 PM   #3
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Just from the little bit that you have said and other comments from this board, its looking more and more clear that a E9x would suite me better. I do tend to like the styling of the E90 models more, in the front anyways. Something about the headlights and front bumper on the F30 that just looks off to me.

Realistically i would have to wait another year or more before the prices come down on a F30 where id feel comfortable spending that much, considering a mortgage will be following soon as well.

But definitely will give both a shot.
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      01-18-2013, 04:40 PM   #4
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Here's a counterpoint I've recently discovered...

IF you drive exclusively in Sport or Sport + mode, you'll notice the steering weight is where the E-body style was.

Eco/Comfort are obviously lighter and less aggressive....I've started driving DS/Sport mode on the highway, keeping it in 8th gear for cruising, and dialing it down when needed...and the gear box shifts remarkably faster than the auto in the E90, so...
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      01-18-2013, 04:49 PM   #5
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Anything E (ie E90,92etc) will depreciate faster since the intro of the F30 and believe me, it has not sunk in yet, but the previous generation is going to look so old in the next little while with more and more F30s hitting the roads. The F30 will remain the same for the next 3 yrs or so and even for another 2-3 yrs after the LCI. So you're buying a more expensive car but which will remain relevant for yrs to come vs buying a previous generation car. My 07 5 series looks so old and crappy compared to the F10,but when I bought it, the F10 had just been out for a year so it had not sunk in yet how old my prev gen 5 is going to look. And now with F10s everywhere, it just feels like I own an old crappy bi mmer. And I tried to sell it a couple times but the offer prices just too low (again due to being a prev gen car)

If you don't care about looks, I think E feels better driving, specially because of the steering wheel feedback that's all.
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      01-18-2013, 05:21 PM   #6
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Quote:
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Anything E (ie E90,92etc) will depreciate faster since the intro of the F30 and believe me, it has not sunk in yet, but the previous generation is going to look so old in the next little while with more and more F30s hitting the roads. The F30 will remain the same for the next 3 yrs or so and even for another 2-3 yrs after the LCI. So you're buying a more expensive car but which will remain relevant for yrs to come vs buying a previous generation car. My 07 5 series looks so old and crappy compared to the F10,but when I bought it, the F10 had just been out for a year so it had not sunk in yet how old my prev gen 5 is going to look. And now with F10s everywhere, it just feels like I own an old crappy bi mmer. And I tried to sell it a couple times but the offer prices just too low (again due to being a prev gen car)

If you don't care about looks, I think E feels better driving, specially because of the steering wheel feedback that's all.
I do still really like the looks of a 2010/2011 E9x, actually prefer it to the F30 style as previously mentioned. The cost of the car is going to fall just as quick whether its a F30 or E90, so many people drive BMW's (or C250,C300, IS250, A4, etc) in this city, they are basically the new civic. The depreciation is going to happen regardless, so i might as well get the vehicle right after the initial fall, a 2011. They do retain most of their value for the next couple of years though. It definitely sounds like the E series is more of a drivers car, more feel and more sporty. To be honest i've never owned a car that has a drive system like I-drive. This will be my first car since out of school, quite a big step up from the GC8, purely a mechanical car, no electronic aids (other than ABS).

You have an odd situation, sure the F10 is a better car but its also one of the greatest cars of the year. Even top gear commented that the basic 5 series is so good, does it make sense to spring for the M5. Which sadly makes the previous models look worse than they actually are. However i dont think the new 3 series are that much better, more refined in certain area's if anything. Not until the twin turbo version of the M3 with a DCT comes out anyway.
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      01-18-2013, 08:33 PM   #7
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I drove all flavors of the F30 335i, all I can say is if you are already warmed up to the 335i, just buy it. You will not regret it. There really is nothing more to say
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      01-21-2013, 12:20 AM   #8
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Short version: test drive both

Lon version: I'm an E90 (328xi) owner, and I am awaiting delivery of my F30 (328i, since xDrive can't be had with 6sp).
The car did feel a bit softer (pro for my wife) but at the same time, once in Sport mode, it felt imore agile/nimble and it was holding the road _really_ well (this was a Sport line model, which is the line I chose). I know it has 1" more legroom in the back, but overall the car felt bigger inside (while being overall lighter!)

Eco/Confort mode are definitely "numb", but I consider that a plus when, say, driving around the in laws and what not; but even my wife has said she'll most likely be driving in Sport most of the time.
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      01-24-2013, 10:49 PM   #9
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I prefer the E92 over the F30, looks better, handles better, plus all the kinks have been ironed out, being the last production year. Some may say it looks old being the previous generation but I would disagree, I think the design is pretty timeless. In any case, the same argument could be made against the F30 once the F32 arrives later this year.
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      01-25-2013, 08:54 AM   #10
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I've been driving an E90 for several days now (F30 in shop), and here's a more informed decision, and simple break down:
1. If you CARE about the interior of your car (looks, tech, feel), GET the F30. It's centuries more modern and welcoming of a driver's car than the E90 (the entire dash is virtually angled to the driver in the F30, harkening back to the E46 body style layout).
2. If you CARE about size and steering feel (small and tight), go with the E90/92 series with an N55 engine.

It's that simple...that, and you can take $ saved in dump it into aftermarket parts.
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      01-25-2013, 09:49 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mynycbimmer View Post
I prefer the E92 over the F30, looks better, handles better, plus all the kinks have been ironed out, being the last production year. Some may say it looks old being the previous generation but I would disagree, I think the design is pretty timeless. In any case, the same argument could be made against the F30 once the F32 arrives later this year.
Nope, it doesn´t handle better than the F30. And that is not a subjective opinion, more or less a fact
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      01-25-2013, 09:53 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDV325 View Post
.....
As the title states i am looking to get into a 335i with X-drive

I am more about the handling than power .....
FWIW,

The previous generation xDrive cars did not offer an optional suspension.

On F30 xDrive cars, you can get the Dynamic Handling Package as an option.

You can also get the Sport AT option with AWD F30s.

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      01-25-2013, 02:31 PM   #13
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I wouldn't worry too much about the additional cost of the car as a deciding factor if you can afford either. Reason being that the F30 will retain it's value since it is the newer model. Especially as BMW goes towards the new style headlights on multiple models.

Something to think about if you go with the F30. Its trickier to fit wider rims/tires in the back. Where as with the E9x fitting a 10" back there with 275 wide tires was easy, you have to play around with the Camber and suspension to get a 10 to fit back there.

Also, Id consider the potential for greater aftermarket support in the suspension areas. I'm not sure how far down the line you plan to upgrade, but the larger following of X-Drive 3 series in North America is going to push the aftermarket providers to offer more options as far as suspension. Ask any E9X X-Drive guy, and you'll see that your options are very limited.

Its a good question with both cars having their own merits and negatives. If its primarily about handling then drive drive drive them as much as you can and go from there!
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      01-25-2013, 10:16 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Nope, it doesn´t handle better than the F30. And that is not a subjective opinion, more or less a fact
well, if you define handling better as numb steering, soft suspension, and plenty of body roll then you're right.
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      01-27-2013, 05:43 PM   #15
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well, if you define handling better as numb steering, soft suspension, and plenty of body roll then you're right.
Did you try one with the adaptive suspension, or the simple M suspension? You really dont seem to know what youre talking about, cause the body roll in my Touring is even less than what my e90 M Sport never failed to deliver. I feared the F3x would disappoint me after having a sport line rental for two weeks (e90 was getting its engine replaced). I hated that car n couldnt wait to get mine back. Later on decided to order a touring, traded the e90 in. Thought Id miss the steering n stiffness. When I finally got it 4 months later in october, after the first day I didnt even miss the E90 one bit. It was a totally different experience than that sport line I had, adaptive M is just fabulous and the steering is precise n really refined, perfectly weighted when in sport.

What can I say, in no way shape or form does the E9x handle better. Go water some flowers or something.
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      01-27-2013, 05:56 PM   #16
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Did you try one with the adaptive suspension, or the simple M suspension? You really dont seem to know what youre talking about, cause the body roll in my Touring is even less than what my e90 M Sport never failed to deliver. I feared the F3x would disappoint me after having a sport line rental for two weeks (e90 was getting its engine replaced). I hated that car n couldnt wait to get mine back. Later on decided to order a touring, traded the e90 in. Thought Id miss the steering n stiffness. When I finally got it 4 months later in october, after the first day I didnt even miss the E90 one bit. It was a totally different experience than that sport line I had, adaptive M is just fabulous and the steering is precise n really refined, perfectly weighted when in sport.

What can I say, in no way shape or form does the E9x handle better. Go water some flowers or something.
Well, its quite clear from your posts that you are the one who doesn't seem to know what you are talking about. Its an established fact now that BMW decided to take more of a luxury direction with the F30 than sport. Every professional reviewer has said that the E9x has the F30 beat in the handling dept. This in addition to most folks who have driven both also confirming the same. The F30 has its strengths over the E90, many of them infact, but not handling and steering feel. The E90's steering provides the legendary BMW feedback, while ad the F30's is numb, even in sport+. It may seem perfectly weighted to you, but that's because you are very much like the new type of BMW buyer, who puts more emphasis on luxury, lighter overall effort and better fuel eco.

Do some research, better yet, go drive both with an open mind before posting so impolitely here.
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      01-28-2013, 04:19 AM   #17
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Well, its quite clear from your posts that you are the one who doesn't seem to know what you are talking about. Its an established fact now that BMW decided to take more of a luxury direction with the F30 than sport. Every professional reviewer has said that the E9x has the F30 beat in the handling dept. This in addition to most folks who have driven both also confirming the same. The F30 has its strengths over the E90, many of them infact, but not handling and steering feel. The E90's steering provides the legendary BMW feedback, while ad the F30's is numb, even in sport+. It may seem perfectly weighted to you, but that's because you are very much like the new type of BMW buyer, who puts more emphasis on luxury, lighter overall effort and better fuel eco.

Do some research, better yet, go drive both with an open mind before posting so impolitely here.
Ive never cared bout fuel costs or opted for more luxury over sportiness, I changed my rfts for PS2s, I spent 2 hours everyday in my E90 for two years, I loved it for its handling capabilities and hated sitting in any other car. Didnt want tl get rid of it cause I felt the f3x had lost that feeling that you and every other reviewer who just tried it, say it has lost. But living with it, driving it daily, you see more clearly just how much better it is. And thats just subjectively speaking, if you look at facts the f3x is stiffer than the predecessor, its got better steering capabilities and is simply. We dont have to go through all the technical details, I assume that u already know what has been upgraded/improved on this new chassis n suspension etc. If not, u shouldnt even be replying. Anyways, heavier steering, which is the only thing the e90 defeats the f3x in, doesnt mean better steering capabilities or road feel. Its just heavier and you get too much road noise. Unnecessary info. If you know how to drive (can I assume you do?) and would live with both cars n an open mind(mine wasnt, in favor of the e90) you would realize how much better it is. And im talking f31 here, bet the f30 is even better balanced.
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      01-28-2013, 07:50 PM   #18
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Ive never cared bout fuel costs or opted for more luxury over sportiness, I changed my rfts for PS2s, I spent 2 hours everyday in my E90 for two years, I loved it for its handling capabilities and hated sitting in any other car. Didnt want tl get rid of it cause I felt the f3x had lost that feeling that you and every other reviewer who just tried it, say it has lost. But living with it, driving it daily, you see more clearly just how much better it is. And thats just subjectively speaking, if you look at facts the f3x is stiffer than the predecessor, its got better steering capabilities and is simply. We dont have to go through all the technical details, I assume that u already know what has been upgraded/improved on this new chassis n suspension etc. If not, u shouldnt even be replying. Anyways, heavier steering, which is the only thing the e90 defeats the f3x in, doesnt mean better steering capabilities or road feel. Its just heavier and you get too much road noise. Unnecessary info. If you know how to drive (can I assume you do?) and would live with both cars n an open mind(mine wasnt, in favor of the e90) you would realize how much better it is. And im talking f31 here, bet the f30 is even better balanced.
Its clear from your post that you have had a bad experience with your E9x's reliability, and to me, that seems to be clouding your judgement a bit. There is no argument that there have been advances in the F30 (as there should have been), but the general consensus is that its less of a driver's car than the E90. Particularly in the steering feel area (I never said heavy means better feedback, but the fact is that the E90's feedback is infinitely better than the F30's). Also in the area of braking - braking performance is poor - probably due to low rolling resistance tires, but that doesn't matter - in the end braking is poorer - not just distances but brake feel as well. Again, there are areas an enthusiast driver would pay attention to...that's why most if not all professionals reviewers have said the E90 has the F30 beat as a driver's car. If you want, I can post some links for you.

With respect to the pot shots you take at me about me knowing how to drive - well, as you can see, I come from a N54 equipped E90, so that should give you an idea whether I know how to drive or not. Yes, one of those original E90s that were rumored to have upwards of 340bhp.
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      01-28-2013, 10:27 PM   #19
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There is no argument that there have been advances in the F30 (as there should have been), but the general consensus is that its less of a driver's car than the E90. Particularly in the steering feel area (I never said heavy means better feedback, but the fact is that the E90's feedback is infinitely better than the F30's). Also in the area of braking - braking performance is poor - probably due to low rolling resistance tires, but that doesn't matter - in the end braking is poorer - not just distances but brake feel as well.
Many reviewers would disagree with your first statement, including myself. I have owned four different versions of E9X, incl. 335i coupe and sedan.
Having had my F30-335i now for two months, I can honestly say that I miss nothing of the E9X series, especially the unforgiving 1st and 2nd generation RFTs and the heavy steering @ low speeds.

If you had driven a F30-335i M Sport with Adaptive M suspension and Variable Sport Steering and factory M Sport brakes, I doubt you would have made the same comments. This car rides very well in Sport mode, the steering is more direct and quicker in tight turns than the E90-335i. The brakes on my F30-335i are fantastic, very powerful and silent.

As for F30 braking performance with standard brakes, the longer stopping distances you refer to were with cars fitted with all season tires. Other reviews, such as Motor Trend's test of the 335i Sport with summer performance tires reported very impressive brake performance (60-0 in 109 ft.). As most enthusiasts know, the type and brand of tires can make a huge difference in handling and braking !

The E9X Series remain first class cars. The F3X Series has evolved and improved upon its predecessor in many ways; it's not perfect, but what car better combines performance, handling, comfort for four adults, a proper trunk and good fuel economy ? The criticism of the F3X Series sounds all too familiar to one who has heard similar comments about each new generation of 3 Series. When the E36 was succeeded by the E46, many enthusiasts said it was the end of the BMW sport sedan. This was repeated when the E9O was introduced and now history repeats itself.

To answer the OP's question, I would suggest that you drive a two year old E90-335i and right after, drive a F30-335i for at least 30-60 minutes. If you aren't impressed by the F30, save yourself some money and go for a low mileage 2011 E90-335i with factory warranty.
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      01-28-2013, 10:53 PM   #20
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I'd never buy a used BMW... again... Instead, pick out the essentials. An F30 335i with Premium, M sport, Sport Auto, and DHP. Everything else is just filler.

But if you enjoy handling more, test drive a 328i M sport, they're quite fun and powerful!
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      01-29-2013, 05:33 AM   #21
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Its clear from your post that you have had a bad experience with your E9x's reliability, and to me, that seems to be clouding your judgement a bit. There is no argument that there have been advances in the F30 (as there should have been), but the general consensus is that its less of a driver's car than the E90. Particularly in the steering feel area (I never said heavy means better feedback, but the fact is that the E90's feedback is infinitely better than the F30's). Also in the area of braking - braking performance is poor - probably due to low rolling resistance tires, but that doesn't matter - in the end braking is poorer - not just distances but brake feel as well. Again, there are areas an enthusiast driver would pay attention to...that's why most if not all professionals reviewers have said the E90 has the F30 beat as a driver's car. If you want, I can post some links for you.

With respect to the pot shots you take at me about me knowing how to drive - well, as you can see, I come from a N54 equipped E90, so that should give you an idea whether I know how to drive or not. Yes, one of those original E90s that were rumored to have upwards of 340bhp.
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Many reviewers would disagree with your first statement, including myself. I have owned four different versions of E9X, incl. 335i coupe and sedan.
Having had my F30-335i now for two months, I can honestly say that I miss nothing of the E9X series, especially the unforgiving 1st and 2nd generation RFTs and the heavy steering @ low speeds.

If you had driven a F30-335i M Sport with Adaptive M suspension and Variable Sport Steering and factory M Sport brakes, I doubt you would have made the same comments. This car rides very well in Sport mode, the steering is more direct and quicker in tight turns than the E90-335i. The brakes on my F30-335i are fantastic, very powerful and silent.

As for F30 braking performance with standard brakes, the longer stopping distances you refer to were with cars fitted with all season tires. Other reviews, such as Motor Trend's test of the 335i Sport with summer performance tires reported very impressive brake performance (60-0 in 109 ft.). As most enthusiasts know, the type and brand of tires can make a huge difference in handling and braking !

The E9X Series remain first class cars. The F3X Series has evolved and improved upon its predecessor in many ways; it's not perfect, but what car better combines performance, handling, comfort for four adults, a proper trunk and good fuel economy ? The criticism of the F3X Series sounds all too familiar to one who has heard similar comments about each new generation of 3 Series. When the E36 was succeeded by the E46, many enthusiasts said it was the end of the BMW sport sedan. This was repeated when the E9O was introduced and now history repeats itself.

To answer the OP's question, I would suggest that you drive a two year old E90-335i and right after, drive a F30-335i for at least 30-60 minutes. If you aren't impressed by the F30, save yourself some money and go for a low mileage 2011 E90-335i with factory warranty.
Just A 3: He gave you a pretty good answer right there. Educate yourself a bit more please, you are the last person to argue about this as you seem to have no experience what so ever from the F30. All your arguments are "they say, they write, they tested". What do YOU know about the F30 and its handling capabilities apart from maybe having test driven one for a short while?

As for owning an N54 E90 and equaling that to being a skilled driver,
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      01-29-2013, 01:43 PM   #22
Just a 3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitoco View Post
Just A 3: He gave you a pretty good answer right there. Educate yourself a bit more please, you are the last person to argue about this as you seem to have no experience what so ever from the F30. All your arguments are "they say, they write, they tested". What do YOU know about the F30 and its handling capabilities apart from maybe having test driven one for a short while?

As for owning an N54 E90 and equaling that to being a skilled driver,
My experience with the F30 has been the test drives I have taken. My point about professional reviewers was made as a case in point. But then comprehension seems to be an issue with you, so no point wasting time.

Second, you asked me, unashamedly, whether 'I knew how to drive' - not 'are you a skilled driver'. So clearly in addition to being an impolite person, you are also a liar....go read your post again.
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