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      01-18-2013, 09:35 PM   #1
steveL77
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F30 Glass soft?

So I've had my car about a month now. Had the car washed 2 times already. Each time at a hand car wash. Tonight I'm driving and I notice when another cars lights shine on every window there is tiny spiderweb type scratches. I've never seen anything like this so soon. I had my e92 for 4 years and it wasn't this bad the day I traded it in.

My question is does anyone else have this problem? It's really annoying considering I have 900 mikes on the car and the windows and windshield look 10 years old already.
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      01-19-2013, 05:24 AM   #2
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Too dirty when they cleaned it, or, your window wipers are too dirty and have been causing this when u use them. Can u see if the spider web is in the wiper area only? If not then its most likely due to bad pre-cleaning from the wash guy.
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      01-19-2013, 12:48 PM   #3
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I have noticed soft windshields on all cars in the last 10 years. My jetta had a sandy speckled windshield in 6 months. In 5 years it was a mess and barely useable at night.

My 2011 e90 was sanded after 6 months as well. In month 1 I got three chips right in the center. Windshields suck.
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      01-19-2013, 03:33 PM   #4
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German cars seem to have both soft glass and paint - it was this way on my Porsches in the 90s and the 3 BMWs I've had since 2001.
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      01-19-2013, 03:37 PM   #5
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Mine feels pretty hard
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      01-19-2013, 05:19 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveL77 View Post
Each time at a hand car wash.
You might want to stop that. No matter how good they are, nothing beats you hand washing your car yourself with the best 2 bucket/grit guard washing techniques.

They will re-use wash mitts & sponges over and over. Each mitt will pickup grits from previous cars and scratch your car. Not good.

You buy the essentials and only your mitt will be used to wash your car, cleaning it after washing each section. You are in control.

In the meantime, it may help if you gave the windscreen a going over with a clay bar (& lubricant of course).
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      01-26-2013, 08:43 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveL77 View Post
So I've had my car about a month now. Had the car washed 2 times already. Each time at a hand car wash. Tonight I'm driving and I notice when another cars lights shine on every window there is tiny spiderweb type scratches. I've never seen anything like this so soon. I had my e92 for 4 years and it wasn't this bad the day I traded it in.

My question is does anyone else have this problem? It's really annoying considering I have 900 mikes on the car and the windows and windshield look 10 years old already.
I hadn't noticed it until today. But my passenger side window has the same marks. Very light but noticeable marks.
I can't tell if its from me cleaning the window with glass cleaner and cloth or just usual wear and tear? Never had this problem with my x3
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      01-26-2013, 09:15 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Vitoco View Post
Too dirty when they cleaned it, or, your window wipers are too dirty and have been causing this when u use them. Can u see if the spider web is in the wiper area only? If not then its most likely due to bad pre-cleaning from the wash guy.
Wipers cannot cause spiderweb like scratches. This is a funny thread. Get a good industrial glass cleaner and do both sides.
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      01-26-2013, 11:03 AM   #9
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Does anyone know the price of the windshield (with HUD support) in US?
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      01-26-2013, 01:49 PM   #10
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For the most part, glass is glass, and while there are differences in hardness depending on the chemical construction and treatment scratches are common.

Sand, dirt, and any debris with a hardness that is above that of the glass will quickly scratch it. Every car I've owned has had a terribly pitted windshield shortly after ownership, especially due to the sand used on the roads in winter.

Moh money, Moh problems.
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      01-26-2013, 02:18 PM   #11
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Does anyone know the price of the windshield (with HUD support) in US?
Replacement cost for mine was right about $1,500 (including trim replacement) for OEM glass...this was through the dealer though so you could probably do better.
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      01-26-2013, 02:20 PM   #12
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Replacement cost for mine was right about $1,500 (including trim replacement) for OEM glass...this was through the dealer though so you could probably do better.
that's ridiculously expensive.... even half that amount would be too much for a windshield replacement... damn, I might need to consider taking glass coverage thru insurance.
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      01-26-2013, 02:24 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by tojo_m View Post
that's ridiculously expensive.... even half that amount would be too much for a windshield replacement... damn, I might need to consider taking glass coverage thru insurance.
All covered by 0 ded insurance so didn't bother me...
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      01-26-2013, 02:43 PM   #14
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Just a little background information that may or may not help. I used to work for BMW. The e90/92 used glass from high quality suppliers such as Pilkington for their German produced vehicles and Shatterpruffe for the late production South African cars. I noticed that all f30 side glass is now supplied by Fuyao, a Chinese supplier that likely supplies most bmw cars in their Chinese plant. Fuyao glass is used on all f30 side glass regardless of production location. You can identify it if you look near the BMW logo on your windows.

There is hope that the f32 will use non Chinese glass though, as I believe the 4 series concept has saint gobain sekurit glass. You can tell from some of the media photos bmw ag released. If there are enough complaints, maybe bmw will change glass suppliers by the lci for the f30.
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      01-27-2013, 05:24 PM   #15
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Just a little background information that may or may not help. I used to work for BMW. The e90/92 used glass from high quality suppliers such as Pilkington for their German produced vehicles and Shatterpruffe for the late production South African cars. I noticed that all f30 side glass is now supplied by Fuyao, a Chinese supplier that likely supplies most bmw cars in their Chinese plant. Fuyao glass is used on all f30 side glass regardless of production location. You can identify it if you look near the BMW logo on your windows.

There is hope that the f32 will use non Chinese glass though, as I believe the 4 series concept has saint gobain sekurit glass. You can tell from some of the media photos bmw ag released. If there are enough complaints, maybe bmw will change glass suppliers by the lci for the f30.
If true, this is an outrage. Rusty seat frames, cheap interior materials, doors that sound like tin cans when you close them...and now, scratch-prone chinese glass! This kind of corner-cutting is really unacceptable in a 'premium' vehicle that costs upwards of $40,000.
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      01-27-2013, 09:08 PM   #16
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If true, this is an outrage. Rusty seat frames, cheap interior materials, doors that sound like tin cans when you close them...and now, scratch-prone chinese glass! This kind of corner-cutting is really unacceptable in a 'premium' vehicle that costs upwards of $40,000.
I think you should set your car on fire in front of your local dealership in protest.
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      01-27-2013, 10:39 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Ti335 View Post
If true, this is an outrage. Rusty seat frames, cheap interior materials, doors that sound like tin cans when you close them...and now, scratch-prone chinese glass! This kind of corner-cutting is really unacceptable in a 'premium' vehicle that costs upwards of $40,000.
I think you should set your car on fire in front of your local dealership in protest.
And video tape it please.

BTW, new frames are rust free and awesome, so BMW is learning classic operations management lesson: managing suppliers, lowering costs, and then losing margin when you're forced to replace it with 16 hours of labor.
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      01-27-2013, 11:21 PM   #18
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funny. I was just thinking about this today while washing my car. There's 1-2 chips in the front windshield a 5mth old car. I think one happened the other day. My last car,a 12 y/o saab, never got a single one.
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      01-28-2013, 01:22 AM   #19
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I think you should set your car on fire in front of your local dealership in protest.
Mine doesn't have chinese glass, so I'll have to borrow yours for that purpose
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      01-28-2013, 11:04 AM   #20
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Mine doesn't have chinese glass, so I'll have to borrow yours for that purpose
Too late. I already rolled it into the river. Cheap piece of crap.

And for the record, WHERE an item is produced isn't particularly important. Moreso, HOW it's produced is. I'm fairly certain that BMW is smart enough to qualify any potential vendors regardless of locale.

"Soft" glass is pretty widespread these days, regardless of manufacturer. This is only a theory, but I have a feeling it has to do with the new measures taken to reduce injuries to pedestrians. I could be wrong, but it seems I've seen more issues since it's been on the radar.
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      01-28-2013, 11:59 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by shivaswrath View Post
And video tape it please.

BTW, new frames are rust free and awesome, so BMW is learning classic operations management lesson: managing suppliers, lowering costs, and then losing margin when you're forced to replace it with 16 hours of labor.
Oh yeah, you really taught them a lesson... by buying their car. Haha!
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      01-28-2013, 07:02 PM   #22
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Too late. I already rolled it into the river. Cheap piece of crap.

And for the record, WHERE an item is produced isn't particularly important. Moreso, HOW it's produced is. I'm fairly certain that BMW is smart enough to qualify any potential vendors regardless of locale.

"Soft" glass is pretty widespread these days, regardless of manufacturer. This is only a theory, but I have a feeling it has to do with the new measures taken to reduce injuries to pedestrians. I could be wrong, but it seems I've seen more issues since it's been on the radar.
I respectfully disagree with the production location theory. While many people mention that robots do the majority of the assembly of vehicles, you'd be surprised how many parts are still screwed in/attached by human labor.

In addition, I believe cultural work ethics play an important role in quality control. When I worked at BMW, it was a known fact that the Rosslyn plant had more vehicles that needed to go into rework than the German-produced e90s. One element that I was able to notice at dealerships was the plastic rocker panel piece found below the side doors. On the German assembled cars, the pieces were tightly snapped in. The Rosslyn cars had many soft spots. These parts are put in by hand, and it's in these small details where you can tell where cultural work ethics come into play.

The concern with Chinese suppliers is that these companies are well trained to cheat the quality control checks. The corporate model in china is not mature, and oftentimes the people that work in factories are notified in advance of quality checks. While BMW does its best to monitor the quality of their supplies, it would simply be impossible to comb through each individual part that comes in from the supplier. Here is where it is important to rely on regions whose cultural work ethics are higher to ensure quality. Germany and Japan thus come to mind. We can try to be as politically correct as possible, but there are certain realities that just cannot be ignored.

That being said, I had my concerns when bmw switched to Fuyao for the side glass on the f30, and I'm afraid these thigs are confirming my suspicions.
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