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      02-07-2013, 05:11 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
BMW has more markets than just the US.
And that there is markets where this Car will actually respond well.

In Europe we are seeing mainstream customers departing to premium brands and for those that need extra flexibility , crave a more dynamic car and want a BMW. 3er GT is in prime position to use that advantage.
And these markets are? Europe is in free fall.
The car makers, premium ones, are making panic in Germany; planned taxes on company cars (2/3 of sales).

USA are pulling forwards the profits and China.
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      02-07-2013, 05:36 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
i really wish BMW would take their eyes off Audi and try to lead for a change
^^ This.
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      02-07-2013, 06:53 PM   #179
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Why? Because people with more brains and money than all of you said that there's a market for it! They're pulling profits, mind your own business.

What was that commercial - You don't want your doctor doing your job, don't do his? Same concept. You guys must be real pros since you just lease their vehicles.

Would I get one? Probably not - but that's because if I wanted a bigger car I'd get a F10
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      02-07-2013, 08:41 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by PAMidge View Post
Why? Because people with more brains and money than all of you said that there's a market for it! They're pulling profits, mind your own business.

What was that commercial - You don't want your doctor doing your job, don't do his? Same concept. You guys must be real pros since you just lease their vehicles.

Would I get one? Probably not - but that's because if I wanted a bigger car I'd get a F10
They are pulling profits
But they're also losing their appeal to drivers
How far are we when the ultimate drive machine motto is changed?
They've already tried with the lame "Joy" attempt

Some car makers success is owed to targeting a specific segment, and doing it better than the rest.
BMW, Porsche etc
Once you lose your core loyal market, then you're dealing with clientele that will leave you the minute there is a newer model from a competitor
Then you're screwed

You're not making drivers cars anymore
And you're 3GT and 5GT won't generate enough income
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      02-07-2013, 08:43 PM   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
They are pulling profits
But they're also losing their appeal to drivers
How far are we when the ultimate drive machine motto is changed?
They've already tried with the lame "Joy" attempt

Some car makers success is owed to targeting a specific segment, and doing it better than the rest.
BMW, Porsche etc
Once you lose your core loyal market, then you're dealing with clientele that will leave you the minute there is a newer model from a competitor
Then you're screwed

You're not making drivers cars anymore
And you're 3GT and 5GT won't generate enough income
I swear this post is from 1999, and about the E53 X5
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      02-07-2013, 08:44 PM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The 3er GT which I have driven to Switzerland is actually very capable as a Gran Tourer the drive was effortless and the car took it in its stride.
In Europe we are seeing mainstream customers departing to premium brands and for those that need extra flexibility , crave a more dynamic car and want a BMW. 3er GT is in prime position to use that advantage.


.
And would your trip in a 3 series touring have been any less entertaining?
Or an X3?
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      02-07-2013, 08:48 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by SamS View Post
I swear this post is from 1999, and about the E53 X5
I've driven both X5s
And we own an '11 X3
Neither one is a drivers car
They are "me too" cars
SUVs were doing well
So BMW wanted to imitate but called it an SAV
As if that makes them different, or original
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      02-07-2013, 09:00 PM   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
I've driven both X5s
And we own an '11 X3
Neither one is a drivers car
They are "me too" cars
SUVs were doing well
So BMW wanted to imitate but called it an SAV
As if that makes them different, or original
BMW still makes "drivers" cars. Let them make 3GTs, X3s and X5s too. That way there is plenty of profit to make a beast of an M3, M5, etc.
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      02-07-2013, 11:10 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by SamS View Post
BMW still makes "drivers" cars. Let them make 3GTs, X3s and X5s too. That way there is plenty of profit to make a beast of an M3, M5, etc.
Correct. The freakin Cayenne and Panamera saved Porsche. Now I can still dream of buying a GT3RS
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      02-07-2013, 11:25 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by Blake P View Post
Maybe I missed this detail, but when is the 3GT expected in US showrooms? I'd love to compare F31 and F34 side by side before making my decision.
SOP in July. Don't expect them before September.
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      02-07-2013, 11:43 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
source?
BMW ETK, as of 11/2012:

535iGT: US - 3039, EU - 31647, UK - 2381
535ixGT: US - 2520, EU - 4130
520d: EU - 5649, EU - 465
530d GT: EU - 13348, UK - 1527

etc. (530dx, 535d, 535dx 550i, 550ix)
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      02-08-2013, 10:42 AM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
BMW still makes "drivers" cars. Let them make 3GTs, X3s and X5s too. That way there is plenty of profit to make a beast of an M3, M5, etc.
that was the case with the E92 generation
the new one is basically a tuned 335i
i think the days of bespoke parts for the M3 are coming to a close
the more parts are shared, the bigger profit they make
again, like audi
the difference between an S5 and a RS5 is much smaller than E92 and E92 M3
they are basically the same car with a few tweaks
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      02-08-2013, 10:51 AM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
that was the case with the E92 generation
the new one is basically a tuned 335i
The new "what" is basically a tuned 335i? The new M3? How do you know, it hasn't even been revealed yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
i think the days of bespoke parts for the M3 are coming to a close
the more parts are shared, the bigger profit they make
again, like audi
the difference between an S5 and a RS5 is much smaller than E92 and E92 M3
they are basically the same car with a few tweaks
E9x M3 had a bespoke motor, sure. But if you think the F80 is basically gonna be a tweaked 335i just because it shares the same block size, I don't think you give ///M engineers enough credit. If anything, I think the F80 will be just as differentiated (if not more) than the standard E90 was to the E90M.

Would it make sense that the give the F80 some bespoke motor, and cut back on other differentiating parts (like suspension, diff, etc) just so they can say "hey the M3/M4 has a bespoke motor"? You can't make everything "bespoke" and expect to keep costs under control, both internally and to the end customer. What's the trade off? A bespoke TTV6 in the F80 (that produces same performance as a S55), but lose the new diff? Lose the carbon fiber roof? Increase the price an additional $10K over the normal M3 premium?
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      02-08-2013, 12:45 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
The new "what" is basically a tuned 335i? The new M3? How do you know, it hasn't even been revealed yet?
the engine has been confirmed on this forum a few times as the 335 block, turbos etc
think of the 1m engine, it was basically a 335is engine, contrary to what BMW said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
E9x M3 had a bespoke motor, sure. But if you think the F80 is basically gonna be a tweaked 335i just because it shares the same block size, I don't think you give ///M engineers enough credit. If anything, I think the F80 will be just as differentiated (if not more) than the standard E90 was to the E90M.]
those same engineers also gave us the 1m
which was a parts bin special
i said it then, and i'll say it again, the 1m was a test
it worked well (because they limited production), so expect this parts bin mentality to continue
unfortunately, i don't think engineers are the driving force at BMW anymore
its the bean counters and the marketing people now
hence why the M logo is now on almost everything they sell

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
Would it make sense that the give the F80 some bespoke motor, and cut back on other differentiating parts (like suspension, diff, etc) just so they can say "hey the M3/M4 has a bespoke motor"? You can't make everything "bespoke" and expect to keep costs under control, both internally and to the end customer. What's the trade off? A bespoke TTV6 in the F80 (that produces same performance as a S55), but lose the new diff? Lose the carbon fiber roof? Increase the price an additional $10K over the normal M3 premium?

no
i expect an M3 to have bespoke engine, suspension, brakes etc
which is why the M3 costs as much as it does
but don't tell me it's about costs
because i guarantee you the new M3 will be more expensive than the existing shape, but it will be using a lot more shared parts with the 335
hence higher profit. It's not about costs and transfering those cost savings to the end user

my problem is i am fine with paying 33% more for an M3 when i know a lot of time went into the engineering, and special parts were made for it etc

but to expect me to pay 33% more for the new M3 (i'd guess it will be higher)
for what is basically the same car, with a nicer tune, is ludicrous
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      02-08-2013, 12:56 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
but to expect me to pay 33% more for the new M3 (i'd guess it will be higher)
for what is basically the same car, with a nicer tune, is ludicrous
I'm not going to argue on the technical points of what you saying, though I think you're over simplifying things, but that last statement (bolded).. I think you're making a pretty massive assumption, we really don't know how different the car is under the skin until the public get their hands on it.
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      02-08-2013, 01:50 PM   #192
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a heavier and bigger 3 with a hatch back. Not really necessary. Looks like a direct A5 competitor.
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      02-08-2013, 06:04 PM   #193
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a heavier and bigger 3 with a hatch back. Not really necessary. Looks like a direct A5 competitor.
Other than the fact that the A5 is a small coupe, yeah.
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      02-08-2013, 06:07 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by rconti View Post
Other than the fact that the A5 is a small coupe, yeah.
I assume he meant the A5 sportback.
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      02-09-2013, 08:20 AM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZMM_OMG
This just seems like a missed opportunity for BMW. The GT is designed to fill a market niche the size of the a thimble. Based on the comments here, people aren't cross-shopping it against other makes, they're cross-shopping it against X-cars and other variations of the F3x.

Since the Bangle era cars, BMW have lost their ability to produce elegant and timeless designs cars like the e24, e34, and e46. A 5-door hatch design CAN work... just look at the A7. Alas, BMW's interpretation looks over-designed and fussy.

Between the confusing product proliferation, fussy designs, egregious pricing, and decreasing levels of driver involvement, I have to wonder if BMW will become the rich man's version of the Camry.
My only comment about pricing is that it is not BMW's fault, you can blame that solely on the crumbling value of fiat-based currency and its built in inflationary mechanisims - which haven't been helped by unsound monetary "easing" or reckless spending and deficits.

Otherwise I agree with you about the point of this car.
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      02-09-2013, 08:54 AM   #196
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///M is back on the exterior! Lol, what will all the haters say about that?
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      02-09-2013, 09:11 AM   #197
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I actually like it. Can't really get a wagon anymore, and the 5GT is too big for my uses. Then again, until I become dumb enough to get married I have no need for anything other than a coupe.
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      02-09-2013, 02:34 PM   #198
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Just looks strange to me. Why not just get a wagon if you want more space and versitility?
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