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      02-05-2013, 12:48 AM   #1
tony20009
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The 320i -- Is it just me???

Ok, so the pricing and equipment for the 320i is great. I'd like some other interior color besides black or beige, but I could live with black. So then I went to check out the specs on the thing. Well, it gets the same exact fuel economy as the 328i and the price comes to about $1500 less than a similarly spec'd (the gizmos, not necessarily the packages) base 328i.


And your savings gets you what? A slower car, smaller engine and no improvement in fuel economy, heated steering wheel, heated rear seats, a ski bag and comfort access.

Am I the only one in the world that thinks folks buying $45K cars wouldn't bother to save $1500 just to get some inconsequential stuff (i.e., they do nothing for the car's resale value) and less performance? And God forbid a potential buyer be content with leatherette seats, which in numerous posts have been noted to be very nice and to one's hand/butt indistinguishable from the leather. seats, for then the two cards come in at the same price.

I know everyone has their own set of values, but really, BMW. $1500 for some computer programming, heated seats that may just rarely get sat on (I get that for some folks this may be handy, but really, how long has it taken in all your past years for the seats to become comfortable once you've sat down on them, even if they were initially cold?), and an expensive replacement for gloves and the trade off in performance with no greater efficiency?

Anyway, the pricing on the 320i seems, like that on the 6 Gran Coupe, to be another example of BMW's having lost their minds. The 320i would make sense to me if it came equipped as I'm suggesting for $40K - $41K.

It may just be me. But I always consider the sum of money I would have to spend and what I would get for it and what the alternatives would be and what I'd give up in money or features between the various cars under consideration. Sure, I'm willing to sped $40K or $50K or even $80K, for my next car, and maybe that's why the 320i isn't making sense to me. I can see that one can get a 320I with some gizmos on it and still drive off the lot for $35K, and that would be all but impossible to do in a 328i. And I can respect folks that only want to spend $35K for a car; no issue there. But I for one would feel ripped off if I were to spend $45K on the 320i.
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      02-05-2013, 02:58 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
it gets the same exact fuel economy as the 328i
Being the same engine, this doesn't surprise me, but aren't BMWNA even trying to claim that the 320i is more fuel efficient? I checked my local pricelist, and converted to US MPG, the 328i gets 36,8 while the 320i gets 38,6. I donít really believe in these numbers though...

The price difference between these two models is also a lot greater here. After removing all the tax including VAT, the difference is still about USD 5,950. That would be more of an incentive to buy the 320i.
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      02-05-2013, 05:41 AM   #3
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It isn't really BMW is it? From an outsider, it looks as if it is BMWNA and their strange marketing of options/packages.

About a 10% saving in the UK, so there is an incentive for some buyers, who want a cheaper BMW and lower costs.

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      02-05-2013, 08:19 AM   #4
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They are not expecting people to bling these out. They are expecting the young badge whores not sure about leasing a 328i stripper for $399/mo. to snap these up stripped at $299/mo.
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      02-05-2013, 09:00 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by shabadoo25 View Post
They are not expecting people to bling these out. They are expecting the young badge whores not sure about leasing a 328i stripper for $399/mo. to snap these up stripped at $299/mo.
This. The OP is right that it makes no sense to buy a loaded 320i. If you can afford a loaded $45K car why compromise on the engine to save money. Most people will buy fairly basic versions. If I were to get one it would have the sport package, heated seats and maybe leather seats. A 320 optioned this way is $36,695.00 while a 328 Sport with leather and heated seats is $42,200 (of course with more std equipment).
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      02-05-2013, 10:21 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
Ok, so the pricing and equipment for the 320i is great. I'd like some other interior color besides black or beige, but I could live with black. So then I went to check out the specs on the thing. Well, it gets the same exact fuel economy as the 328i and the price comes to about $1500 less than a similarly spec'd (the gizmos, not necessarily the packages) base 328i.


And your savings gets you what? A slower car, smaller engine and no improvement in fuel economy, heated steering wheel, heated rear seats, a ski bag and comfort access.

Am I the only one in the world that thinks folks buying $45K cars wouldn't bother to save $1500 just to get some inconsequential stuff (i.e., they do nothing for the car's resale value) and less performance? And God forbid a potential buyer be content with leatherette seats, which in numerous posts have been noted to be very nice and to one's hand/butt indistinguishable from the leather. seats, for then the two cards come in at the same price.

I know everyone has their own set of values, but really, BMW. $1500 for some computer programming, heated seats that may just rarely get sat on (I get that for some folks this may be handy, but really, how long has it taken in all your past years for the seats to become comfortable once you've sat down on them, even if they were initially cold?), and an expensive replacement for gloves and the trade off in performance with no greater efficiency?

Anyway, the pricing on the 320i seems, like that on the 6 Gran Coupe, to be another example of BMW's having lost their minds. The 320i would make sense to me if it came equipped as I'm suggesting for $40K - $41K.

It may just be me. But I always consider the sum of money I would have to spend and what I would get for it and what the alternatives would be and what I'd give up in money or features between the various cars under consideration. Sure, I'm willing to sped $40K or $50K or even $80K, for my next car, and maybe that's why the 320i isn't making sense to me. I can see that one can get a 320I with some gizmos on it and still drive off the lot for $35K, and that would be all but impossible to do in a 328i. And I can respect folks that only want to spend $35K for a car; no issue there. But I for one would feel ripped off if I were to spend $45K on the 320i.
I'm sure dealer incentives (discounts/promotions) will drive the price down.
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      02-05-2013, 10:23 AM   #7
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I am sure real world mpg will favor the 320. Rest of the world shows the 320 having an advantage.
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      02-05-2013, 03:41 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by shabadoo25 View Post
They are not expecting people to bling these out. They are expecting the young badge whores not sure about leasing a 328i stripper for $399/mo. to snap these up stripped at $299/mo.
And then?

You calling them badge whores does not make it so, any more than a 335 buyer is a badge whore who can't afford a 550 or a 7er or whatever.

320 will be a nice car. *shrug* I know a lot of people who specifically look for cars with the fewest options possible.
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      02-05-2013, 03:57 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
Well, it gets the same exact fuel economy as the 328i and the price comes to about $1500 less than a similarly spec'd (the gizmos, not necessarily the packages) base 328i.

And your savings gets you what? A slower car, smaller engine and no improvement in fuel economy, heated steering wheel, heated rear seats, a ski bag and comfort access.
I'm pretty sure people were saying it had less or something, but its a detuned version of the 328 engine and it has to power a car the same weight, so obviously fuel economy is going to take a little bit of a hit.

Now do i support this car, no.
Will it sell well in the U.S. absolutely.

Every 328 you see now would be replaced by this, enthusiasts are super rare, and most people could care less about the engine and just want an entry luxury car. Some want the BMW badge. All in all, it will sell.
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      02-05-2013, 03:58 PM   #10
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And then?

You calling them badge whores does not make it so, any more than a 335 buyer is a badge whore who can't afford a 550 or a 7er or whatever.

320 will be a nice car. *shrug* I know a lot of people who specifically look for cars with the fewest options possible.
I think he meant between the same series. Some people will buy the cheapest version of something because it has the name. Hence the bare bones 320 making sense for someone who wants a BMW but can't afford all the bells and whistles. Does that make them a 'badge whore', who knows, it could be 1) they want a 3 series BMW and can't afford model with the bigger engine or the bells and whistles or 2) they dont care about them and just want a stripper BMW. I'd venture to say more fall in the number 1 category but who knows, it's their money to do what they want.

Comparing someone who wanted a 3 series and purchased a 335 to someone who wanted and couldn't afford a 5 series is really apples to oranges. (For instance, I could've purchased a 528 with the tech and premium packages for cheaper than my 335 cost, but I didn't want a 5 series - unless it was a M5 which wasn't in my budget)
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      02-05-2013, 04:05 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by tdizzle View Post
I think he meant between the same series. Some people will buy the cheapest version of something because it has the name. Hence the bare bones 320 making sense for someone who wants a BMW but can't afford all the bells and whistles. Does that make them a 'badge whore', who knows, it could be 1) they want a 3 series BMW and can't afford model with the bigger engine or the bells and whistles or 2) they dont care about them and just want a stripper BMW. I'd venture to say more fall in the number 1 category but who knows, it's their money to do what they want.

Comparing someone who wanted a 3 series and purchased a 335 to someone who wanted and couldn't afford a 5 series is really apples to oranges. (For instance, I could've purchased a 528 with the tech and premium packages for cheaper than my 335 cost, but I didn't want a 5 series - unless it was a M5 which wasn't in my budget)
Agreed.

I don't think most people would look at the 320, then look at the 328, and say "hmmm well I can afford the 328, but I think I want a slower car even though I'm buying a premium sports car."

In other words, not many will consciously choose the 320 over the 328 for any other reason than pricing.

As much as you may hate to admit it, a lot of people who'll end up buying the 320 are those who really really want a BMW, but can't afford a 328i. However, I don't think these people should be labeled as "badge whores". I'd rather applaud them for appreciating the BMW brand, and wanting to get into BMWs even if they can't afford the one they really want.

Hell, I wanted a 335xi with all the bells and whistles, but my current finances don't allow for it, so I went with a 328i with the stuff that I really want (tech package, lights, leather seats, drivers assist pack). In another 6-10 years once I'm more financially established, I'll go the full distance and get a fully loaded 335 or maybe even an M3, along with ED, but right now that's not feasible.

Does this make me a "badge whore"?
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      02-05-2013, 04:43 PM   #12
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If ever there were a badge whore for BMWs, it'd have to be me. On any given day, you are liable to find up to five late model (2007 to 2012) BMWs in my driveway/garage. Some are loaded with options and others are modestly equipped, but they all carry the same badge.

The cars in question are:
My '07 coupe
My '11 F10
My daughters' '10 3er wagon
My son's '12 F30
My cousin's '10 328i

So now that I have a harem of cars I've bought, maybe that makes me the badge pimp and not the badge whore? I don't know....

In all seriousness though, I want what I want, and I don't want to pay more than I have to for it. But at the same time, I'm pretty practical, as practical as one who pretty nearly will buy only BMWs, so I was toying with the thought of getting the 320i for myself, thinking it'd be 3 to 5 grand less than a similarly equipped 328.

I'm over 50, so yes, I find the performance addictive and fun, and I have my moments hauling ass down open roads, but I know too I really have no need for a car that's fast, or at least faster than the 320i. I may blow by you because I'm driving 80-85 mph on a clear interstate highway, but I really don't care who's first pulling away from the stop light.

So somebody mentioned the motor of the 320i is based on the 328i's motor. What did they do that it puts out less power, but uses the same amount of gas?

(BTW, I'm basing my fuel economy statements on what I see on BMW's website under features and specs for the the 320i.)

I'm almost certain that the 320i would appeal, initially at least, to a lot of folks like me. Middle aged, just want a nice low key car to do the day to day grind in. Comfortable, well built and well designed, etc, but something that one could just write a check for it or finance it for no more than a year. I could see the 320 as a great car to get for one's kids as well. Indeed, that it's not super fast is a plus in my mind when buying for a teenager.
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      02-05-2013, 05:49 PM   #13
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From looking at the pricing, in the usa it does not make sense. The 328i is almost the best bet in all instances. But yeah a bare bones 320i is still a 3 series with a little less power and no donkey gizmos that are not really needed in a car. You are really just paying for a really fun BMW engine + transmission and body. Elsewhere in the world the 320i makes the most sense.
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      02-05-2013, 06:02 PM   #14
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getting a 320 in manual would be lots of fun. auto might be sluggish.
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      02-05-2013, 06:35 PM   #15
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I don't think this is that complicated. There is a growing market for buyers, especially young ones out of college, who want a premium car but don't necessarily have the salary to shell out a premium price. The base 320 allows buyers, of any age, to get in a brand new BMW at a very reasonable cost. Mercedes is coming out with the CLA for the same reason; "sporty" sedan for $30k.
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      02-05-2013, 06:46 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan9095 View Post
I don't think this is that complicated. There is a growing market for buyers, especially young ones out of college, who want a premium car but don't necessarily have the salary to shell out a premium price. The base 320 allows buyers, of any age, to get in a brand new BMW at a very reasonable cost. Mercedes is coming out with the CLA for the same reason; "sporty" sedan for $30k.
+1 Not sure what all the fuss is about regarding the 320. Creating a lower version of the 328 is a smart move on BMW's part to expand their market share and sell to someone who is at their financial limit of what they can spend. For those who can spend more, BMW has the 328, 335, 528, 535,etc...
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      02-05-2013, 06:59 PM   #17
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+1 Not sure what all the fuss is about regarding the 320. Creating a lower version of the 328 is a smart move on BMW's part to expand their market share and sell to someone who is at their financial limit of what they can spend. For those who can spend more, BMW has the 328, 335, 528, 535,etc...
I think it's a smart move too, in concept at least. But as it is, similarly equipped, it's just $1500 lower.
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      02-05-2013, 07:07 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shabadoo25 View Post
They are not expecting people to bling these out. They are expecting the young badge whores not sure about leasing a 328i stripper for $399/mo. to snap these up stripped at $299/mo.
^This.
The 320i is basically going to be an "entry level" vehicle. It's $1350 more than the base 135i, and $1750 more than the base X1 sDrive28i, making it priced right in the base level. Like it was said, it's for those that are buying it for a status symbol.

The 320i is stripped down for a reason, and most people buying it are not going to be loading it up. I would suspect that most people buying them will be getting them pretty stripped down just so they can get into the brand.
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      02-05-2013, 07:19 PM   #19
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Don't forget the 328i economy numbers were adjusted when the EPA raised a flag. I think they're now artificially low.

It's never economical to take a low spec model and option it to match a higher spec model. Try configuring a 328i in an effor to match the 335i specs. You'll also find a similarly scant variation.

I'm sure the great majority of these 320s will have few boxes checked to keep the price down. When performance isn't a priority, people will buy them in great numbers.
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      02-05-2013, 07:21 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwforme View Post
I'm pretty sure people were saying it had less or something, but its a detuned version of the 328 engine and it has to power a car the same weight, so obviously fuel economy is going to take a little bit of a hit.
Wait, less powerful engine taking a 'hit' in fuel economy? That's not really how it works.

Quote:
Every 328 you see now would be replaced by this, enthusiasts are super rare, and most people could care less about the engine and just want an entry luxury car. Some want the BMW badge. All in all, it will sell.
You seem to equate "enthusiasts" with "want as much power as possible". Sure, there's a lot of crossover, but just look at AMG sales -- a lot of them are simply people who have to have the most high-end of some model car, they don't know a damn thing about cars.

Tsuyoi bought a 328 instead of the 335 because it was the wiser financial choice for him. Does that make him not an enthusiast?
tony20009 seems very interested in the 320 as well. Does that make him not an enthusiasts?

I see quite a few BMW enthusiasts clamoring for a de-contented car at a lower pricepoint. If anything, this indicates enthusiasm to me more than the attitude I see on this forum a lot, which is if you didn't buy a 335, you're not a car person.. which is not only wrong, sometimes it's completely backwards.
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      02-05-2013, 07:25 PM   #21
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How many topic do we need to have on 320i?

Is it really bothering 335i owner that much?
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      02-05-2013, 10:06 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen
I am sure real world mpg will favor the 320. Rest of the world shows the 320 having an advantage.
Agreed.
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