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      02-10-2013, 10:57 AM   #67
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That's a pretext. Because they COULD build a 184HP I6 DI NA 2.2-2.5 with no worse fuel economy / CO2 emission and as quick in 0-100km/h.... it is not a technological issue but the nonsense current Euro fashion /trend would kill it, for bad reasons (like displacement vs registration fee) irrelevant to us , in North America.
Good post. In reality it has to do with the US crash-test regulations too. For the US market, every drivetrain configuration has to be crash tested. So if BMW were to add the magical small displacement I6 you and I think they should, they'd need to crash test the automatic and manual transmissioned variants of the F30 chassis with a NA I6 in it. With the de-tuned N20 in the 320i, since it is the same engine block, there is no need to crash test the F30 320i chassis. However, for a car company such as BMW that charges an outrageous amount for it's cars, you'd think they could afford to add such a model to the US lineup.
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      02-10-2013, 12:35 PM   #68
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That's a pretext. Because they COULD build a 184HP I6 DI NA 2.2-2.5 with no worse fuel economy / CO2 emission and as quick in 0-100km/h.... it is not a technological issue but the nonsense current Euro fashion /trend would kill it, for bad reasons (like displacement vs registration fee) irrelevant to us , in North America.
Please immerse yourself in the world outside the US.
The CO2 emission of the 320i is a couple of g/km less, so that it falls in "energy class A" instead of B in Europe. This means your lease price is €75/€125 (25% vs 20%) less per month.

BMW is not the only car brand in the world. You have a choice For example, you can buy an American car. But you need to stop at the petrol station a lot more often for a car with the same 1 to 60 time as the 320i

Last edited by Mctijn; 02-10-2013 at 01:08 PM.
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      02-10-2013, 01:05 PM   #69
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I've must not been paying attention lately to BMW. I had no idea they were adding the 320i to the F30 line up. Now at over 200,000 on my E90, I'll be soon looking to replace it in the next 50,000 miles (which is a year and a half for me).

I've owned a BMW 3-series since 1988 and have two in the stable right now. I've bought all three as new cars and do all my own maintenance (I hate the stupid pre-paid maintenance plan BMW makes you buy in the US). So call me not a Roundel badge whore; but I don't see the need to tart-up a great driving BMW with a bunch of options. I drive about 34,000 miles a year in my E90; I really don't want to spend an extra $7K for options that don't really enhance the driving experience.

So the 320i got my interest, until I looked into the details. On the BMW website, on some pages (the first I read), called the engine a "2.0L in-line 4 cylinder" with 180 HP; so I thought, great a naturally aspirated 4-banger (= a bit slower but with reliability and better fuel mileage), just what I need for my commute. But no, it's just a detuned N20, with no better EPA MPG rating than the N20 in the 328i. It's 0 - 60 time is 7.1 seconds vs. the 328i's 5.8 seconds. Considering the reliability of BMW's turbos (E90 335i) is not yet known for the N20, I can't justify a 320i purchase as a high mileage low maintenance cost daily driver.

Sparsely optioned, like my current E90 325i is (Sport package, Adaptive HIDs, and Bluetooth), the F30 320i comes in at $37,195. A similarly equipped 328i Sport Line comes in at $42,225, a $5,250 difference for 60 more HP and 1.3 seconds fast 0 - 60 time. Hummmm.... Not sure I see the point.

So, close BMW, close; why not give us long-timer cheapo-badge whores, a nice 2.0L naturally aspirated and reliable in-line 6 (like a 3-Series should have) with direct injection for an F30 320i price.
You make a reasonable post expressing a reasonable request with a reasonable opinion and look at the condescending reaction you get from an apparently brainwashed self righteous European writing to you like you're a 6 year old.
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      02-10-2013, 01:07 PM   #70
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328 all the way. The price difference in US between the two equally configured cars isn't significant (especially if you're leasing). For the 320 money, you can get a better alternative outside of BMW

I wish BMW brought 330D and/or 335D here instead
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      02-10-2013, 01:08 PM   #71
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Maybe world-wide regulations about co2 emission?

The 320i takes you a bit less quick from 0-60 than the 328i, but with remaining all other plusses of a BMW (handling, steering etc. etc.). You can decide if you want to pay $8k more to be a better traffic light racer. I don't see any problems

If you need speed and get tears in your eyes from the sound of a 6 cyl, you can buy the 335i.
Your post is dripping with patronizing condensation. Congrats on becoming a well trained sheep.
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      02-10-2013, 01:14 PM   #72
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You make a reasonable post expressing a reasonable request with a reasonable opinion and look at the condescending reaction you get from an apparently brainwashed self righteous European writing to you like you're a 6 year old.
You can also say that you agree with him, without degrading users with other opinions.
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      02-10-2013, 01:19 PM   #73
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You can also say that you agree with him, without degrading users with other opinions.
That's too bad for you that you have such a fragile ego that you actually feel degraded.
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      02-10-2013, 01:24 PM   #74
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Don't blame this sheep for the 4-cyl-engines please :P
Was just giving my opinion to TS.
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      02-10-2013, 03:25 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
...[i] do all my own maintenance (I hate the stupid pre-paid maintenance plan BMW makes you buy in the US).
Next time you are in the mood to throw away $1500-$2000, please PM me. I live relatively close to you and I'm sure I could be there within an hour or less to take that money off your hands. I have two kids in college and a third about to head there. I know if I don't know what to do with that money, they will.

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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
So call me not a Roundel badge whore; but I don't see the need to tart-up a great driving BMW with a bunch of options. I drive about 34,000 miles a year in my E90; I really don't want to spend an extra $7K for options that don't really enhance the driving experience.
I'm not sure what a badge whore is. Still trying to figure out if I am one or not for I have 2 BMWs of my own and gave one each to my two oldest kids. Don't know if that makes me a whore or a pimp.

Laden with options isn't what I'd call the 320 I described in my first post, aside from that's what it looks like because the 320 carries fewer things standard than does the 335, which is what I have now. Basically, I agree with you about keeping the options list short on a 3er. My 335 has but sport package, heated seats and leather, the last only because I wanted red seats, not because I mind having leatherette.


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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
So the 320i got my interest, until I looked into the details. On the BMW website, on some pages (the first I read), called the engine a "2.0L in-line 4 cylinder" with 180 HP; so I thought, great a naturally aspirated 4-banger (= a bit slower but with reliability and better fuel mileage), just what I need for my commute. But no, it's just a detuned N20, with no better EPA MPG rating than the N20 in the 328i. It's 0 - 60 time is 7.1 seconds vs. the 328i's 5.8 seconds. Considering the reliability of BMW's turbos (E90 335i) is not yet known for the N20, I can't justify a 320i purchase as a high mileage low maintenance cost daily driver.

Sparsely optioned, like my current E90 325i is (Sport package, Adaptive HIDs, and Bluetooth), the F30 320i comes in at $37,195. A similarly equipped 328i Sport Line comes in at $42,225, a $5,250 difference for 60 more HP and 1.3 seconds fast 0 - 60 time. Hummmm.... Not sure I see the point.
For me, must haves on my cars are:
  • Sport suspension
  • Sport seats
  • Navigation
  • Moonroof
  • Power, heated seats
  • Heated steering wheel, provided that buying CWP to get it doesn't force me to spend $1450 to buy leather also
  • Xenon lights
  • Rear view camera

Were I content with just the extras you mentioned, $5200 would be enough of a savings for me to go with the 320i.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
So, close BMW, close; why not give us long-timer cheapo-badge whores, a nice 2.0L naturally aspirated and reliable in-line 6 (like a 3-Series should have) with direct injection for an F30 320i price.
The only reason I can come up with for why BMW don't do this is CAFE, to which BMW was a supporting party in the 2011 CAFE standards promulgation, so they can't really just ignore it. Even so, I don't understand at all how it is that BMW can spend money to detune the N20, yet sell it for less money than one that hasn't been detuned.
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      02-10-2013, 03:48 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by BMWFanatic2008 View Post
328 all the way. The price difference in US between the two equally configured cars isn't significant (especially if you're leasing). For the 320 money, you can get a better alternative outside of BMW

I wish BMW brought 330D and/or 335D here instead
I'm getting a sense now, having read the POVs of folks outside the US, that the marginal price variance we see, and the regulatory environment we face, are unique to the US. Outside the US, and in Europe it seems that the taxes and fees that come with buying the larger engined car aren't remotely worth it for most folks. And based on the numbers I've seen cited above, I would tend to feel the same way. We US buyers don't have the steep tax burdens t and we don't have the emissions-related surcharges/fees/sin taxes.
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      02-10-2013, 05:17 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony20009 View Post
Next time you are in the mood to throw away $1500-$2000, please PM me. I live relatively close to you and I'm sure I could be there within an hour or less to take that money off your hands. I have two kids in college and a third about to head there. I know if I don't know what to do with that money, they will.



I'm not sure what a badge whore is. Still trying to figure out if I am one or not for I have 2 BMWs of my own and gave one each to my two oldest kids. Don't know if that makes me a whore or a pimp.

Laden with options isn't what I'd call the 320 I described in my first post, aside from that's what it looks like because the 320 carries fewer things standard than does the 335, which is what I have now. Basically, I agree with you about keeping the options list short on a 3er. My 335 has but sport package, heated seats and leather, the last only because I wanted red seats, not because I mind having leatherette.




For me, must haves on my cars are:
  • Sport suspension
  • Sport seats
  • Navigation
  • Moonroof
  • Power, heated seats
  • Heated steering wheel, provided that buying CWP to get it doesn't force me to spend $1450 to buy leather also
  • Xenon lights
  • Rear view camera

Were I content with just the extras you mentioned, $5200 would be enough of a savings for me to go with the 320i.




The only reason I can come up with for why BMW don't do this is CAFE, to which BMW was a supporting party in the 2011 CAFE standards promulgation, so they can't really just ignore it. Even so, I don't understand at all how it is that BMW can spend money to detune the N20, yet sell it for less money than one that hasn't been detuned.
So like I said in the private message you sent me, I didn't say I didn't use the pre-paid maintenance plan; I just said I hated it. For the $2,000 it increases the price of the car, I can do 3-times the maintenance as DIY work for the same amount of money. All the "free" maintenance plan does is allow BMW to invest the money it collects up front for the maintenance work. I'd prefer to opt out of it. The free maintenance was developed so that Roundel hounds who only want to lease a BMW for 3 years will get the maintenance done.

I prefer a less-optioned car, as things like I-drive, leather, heated seats, heated steering wheel (LOL), etc., add nothing to the driving experience (which is what BMW used to tout as the reason to spend 1/3 more money for their cars).

BMW has to make the 3-Series as fuel efficient as possible just because of the CAFE regulations in the US. The "economical" 3-Seriers has to counter act all those 550 horsepower X5's and X6's and not to forget the X5M and the X6M (LOL again). Us 3-Series owners get shit on so some people who will pay $100K for a stupid good handling SUV can buy one.

Since two out of the three BMWs I've owned I've taken over 200,000 miles, and the third at 154,000 which I take to 250,000, I'm far from a Roundel Badge whore. Just sayin'.

Peace.
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      02-10-2013, 05:22 PM   #78
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Very interesting opinions on this board
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      02-10-2013, 05:26 PM   #79
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For the 320 money, you can get a better alternative outside of BMW (
Can you give some examples?
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      02-10-2013, 05:26 PM   #80
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You make a reasonable post expressing a reasonable request with a reasonable opinion and look at the condescending reaction you get from an apparently brainwashed self righteous European writing to you like you're a 6 year old.
So, I don't pay much attention to people who think driving a car will kill the planet. If one thinks driving a car, with its CO2 exhaust (now labeled a pollutant by the US EPA - even though we humans exhale it too), will kill the planet, then the logical step is to stop driving altogether; not just "reduce" your CO2 output. Just my opinion.
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      02-10-2013, 05:37 PM   #81
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I also don't really care about all "save the planet bullshit". The environment is better than 20 years ago. We can use this planet for a couple of thousand years more and if it's unusable, we go to Mars

I care about my wallet. I have more expensive hobbies besides my car. If I were an American, I'd buy an 328i without any doubt, but here are the prices and road conditions different. 50% of the time I'm stuck in traffic jams. All 306hps of my 335i begged me to sell my car to someone with empty roads ahead
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      02-11-2013, 05:33 AM   #82
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I also don't really care about all "save the planet bullshit". The environment is better than 20 years ago. We can use this planet for a couple of thousand years more and if it's unusable, we go to Mars

I care about my wallet. I have more expensive hobbies besides my car. If I were an American, I'd buy an 328i without any doubt, but here are the prices and road conditions different. 50% of the time I'm stuck in traffic jams. All 306hps of my 335i begged me to sell my car to someone with empty roads ahead
I'm good with that. I misunderstood, CO2 output is a tax regulation issue for you; got it.
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      02-11-2013, 06:14 AM   #83
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I bought the 320i because its a fantastic car! I didn't need the speed of the 328i the 320i is plenty. And I fully loaded the car with ///M Sport package, 19" wheels, Sunroof, Business Navigation, BiXenons, Mirror package, heated seats. You guys in the states are lucky you don't pay the prices we do downunder ($69k)
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      02-11-2013, 08:36 AM   #84
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I also don't really care about all "save the planet bullshit". The environment is better than 20 years ago. We can use this planet for a couple of thousand years more and if it's unusable, we go to Mars

I care about my wallet. I have more expensive hobbies besides my car. If I were an American, I'd buy an 328i without any doubt, but here are the prices and road conditions different. 50% of the time I'm stuck in traffic jams. All 306hps of my 335i begged me to sell my car to someone with empty roads ahead
+1 but I'm an American.
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      02-11-2013, 08:46 AM   #85
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And btw I checked out several BMW sites from the UK, Aus, Poland, etc. While the 320i and the 328i are rated the same for fuel economy, they are not rated the same elsewhere. The city economy is significantly higher for the 320i than the 328i.

Using the American CAFE tracks for city and highway they may score quite similarly, but the other tests give the 320i the edge in economy. In fact, if you look up the the 2012 320i models that have been reviewed the observed mileage is noticeably better than that of 2012 328i's tested.

Check out even the EU site for BMW and you'll see that the 320i has a higher average fuel economy over the 328i even as the 328i has a similar extra-urban rating as the 320i.

All that being said, for all intents and purposes, there will be a noticeable difference in fuel economy between these two vehicles (especially for people who drive in the city).
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