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      05-28-2013, 08:07 AM   #1
smurphy522
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2013 328i as loaner - not impressed

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Well I've had a 2013 328i (very basic trim) for a week now as my 2007 335i is getting new turbos, front suspension work (bushings replaced) and a leaking mechatronics seal replaced. My 335 has the sport and premium packages along with the Logic7 HK stereo - just so that readers understand what I am "used to".

I would say the only things I consider an improvement on the new model 3 series are: the location of the cup holders, the comfort access (a feature I cold have gotten back in 2007) and the look (lines) of the front of the car.

The 2.0 turbo and that horrible start/stop feature when coming to a complete stop are probably the worst thing. I can see having to replace a starter motor and wearing out much of the engine components prematurely due to large increases in the engine starting. It is proven that most engine wear occurs in starting of an engine (albeit larger wear comes with a cold engine, of course).

The controls, buttons and overall feel is of much lesser quality. I am curious if this is the same feeling from past 3 series owners? The engine is peppy for a 2.0 litre and the transmission is decent for an Automatic. The radio and iDrive is a mess. Can't imagine how many accidents are attributed to this unintuitive mishmash of "convenience features"

It just feels like so much less of a car. I am definitely not missing getting a new car - will hold onto mine for as long as I can. BWM really dropped the ball on this new F30 series IMHO.
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      05-28-2013, 08:14 AM   #2
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test drive a loaded 328i/335i...you will be surprised by how different they are.

I have a similar experience a few weeks ago when my 2013 335i was in service.
the base model doesn't belong to this class.
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      05-28-2013, 08:25 AM   #3
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Hasn't this been done to death?
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      05-28-2013, 08:26 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HFW003
Hasn't this been done to death?
+1

Same thing could have been said about an E90 328i loaner
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      05-28-2013, 08:34 AM   #5
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I am sure the M3 guys say the same thing about the 335. Everyone's entitled to their opinions. If it makes you fell better to sledge someone else's choice of vehicle good for you.
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      05-28-2013, 08:41 AM   #6
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Yeah, pretty pointless to compare a base model 328 to a well equipped 335. While a few of your complaints may apply to even a loaded 335, the bigger issues go away by getting options more comparable to what you have.
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      05-28-2013, 09:03 AM   #7
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Im a little tired of these skewed comparrisons between F30 328's and 335's. I also could care less about comparing e90's to F30's. Everything is relative and I am sure that whatever pre-dated was a better car than the e90. We all love our cars, they become a part of us. At some point you have to stop judging and start enjoying.

e90s are not better than f30s and vice versa. the 335s are not better than 328s and vise versa. These are all different cars aimed at different customers, whichever you choose you need to stop looking over your shoulder waiting for the next big thing and just enjoy your ride!

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      05-28-2013, 09:10 AM   #8
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the ASS can be turned off. u have the old idrive people said that sucks compared to the new one.
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      05-28-2013, 09:25 AM   #9
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Typical E9X driver bashing the NEW version. Overdone.
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      05-28-2013, 09:47 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevRyd View Post
Im a little tired of these skewed comparrisons between F30 328's and 335's. I also could care less about comparing e90's to F30's. Everything is relative and I am sure that whatever pre-dated was a better car than the e90. We all love our cars, they become a part of us. At some point you have to stop judging and start enjoying.

e90s are not better than f30s and vice versa. the 335s are not better than 328s and vise versa. These are all different cars aimed at different customers, whichever you choose you need to stop looking over your shoulder waiting for the next big thing and just enjoy your ride!

Kevin
I test drove a few (328i) F30s before settling on mine. The only reason I went with the 335i was the 6 cylinder engine - just couldn't bring myself to go back to a 4, despite how well it performed.

But to compare my 335i F30 to my 328i E90 would be grossly unfair. It didn't have iDrive, which I like. But I guess I am not a "fiddler". I haven't changed radio stations in 2 years (love Satellite). I don't use my iPhone for music, so don't have to fiddle with the iPod interface or try to select playlists while driving. Very worst case I have to pull to the side of the road and put something in the Nav.

My 328i had the Sports package, on standard 17s. My 335i Sport Line has the DHP, and is on BMW OEM 361 20s - and is still more comfortable and compliant than my old 328i. The old 328i had the edge in steering response though, and currently in braking too - but I only have 190 miles on the 335i. I think the pads/disks still need some bedding in to perform properly.

As far as the sound and performance - I am trying not to spend a huge amount on gas playing tunes with the 335i's exhaust note

The only part of this comparison that doesn't equate to the F30 328i is the engine sound. Otherwise, it's equally as good as the 335i, and if it had of been a 2.0 Straight 6 TwinScroll Turbo, I would have gone for it.
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      05-28-2013, 10:12 AM   #11
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Some I agree some dont. Cheaper feel in the interior of F30 is center console, if you feel the sides of it its much thiner than in E90 models and thats what I hate in most Japanese cars. Other thing is buttons I see it come out accidentaly if you're not careful while cleaning the interior, doors are much lighter than in previous model. Other things are improvements over E90 almost in every category especialy i-Drive system, hate the old idrive would love to replace mine in 2009 X5 with the new one, so easy to use and much faster with better interface. Body is stiffer could feel on my first drive, dashboard is more driver oriented in F series. In general not much is changed in this new car except for design. Drove 328xi with no sports package was still fun, car is light fast enough for day to day driving and price factor is what forcing me to change up since Im in the traffic most of the time where my M3 is a waste.
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      05-28-2013, 11:09 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HFW003 View Post
Hasn't this been done to death?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
+1

Same thing could have been said about an E90 328i loaner
Yep.

Should be a sticky.

People drive the base stripped loaner and it leaves a terrible impression. The base suspension and 17" wheel combo are the softest driving, floaty cars we have seen in a 3 series to date.

But someone with a higher spec E90 drives one and feels the need to express to us how bad it is.

Yet somehow, many like me drove base loaner E90s and were smart enough to know that those lacking experiences did not define the E90 either.
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      05-28-2013, 11:35 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
+1

Same thing could have been said about an E90 328i loaner
+1 Yep had one for a month and compared to my E46 M3, it was a joke.
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      05-28-2013, 11:38 AM   #14
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The dealership lent me a base-model 2013 328 xDrive last night. I agree with everyone who says a base model is very different from a well equipped car. The non-sport seats are a big letdown. The basic iDrive and controller seem flimsy compared to the full version. The thin steering wheel on this car is also disappointing.

Auto Start Stop in the 328 is horrible. The car shakes pretty intensely both on engine shutdown and on start. My 335 shuts off with almost no shudder, and the start up is generally hidden by the usual jolt that happens when you let off the brakes.

The sound from the 4-cylinder is much less compelling than the 335.

I think the 328 is still a nice car, despite all of the above. There's something subtly compelling about its balance between weight, power and handling. My 335's handling almost seems clunky in comparison.

I'm still glad I chose the 335. The sound it makes as it jumps off the line from a stop continues to put a smile on my face.
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      05-28-2013, 01:40 PM   #15
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Drive a loaded 328i with sport or msport and every little box checked on the build sheet give or take a few and then drive a base model or no line and then try to say the same thing it's like apples and oranges to compare a loaded car to a base car with no sport suspension which I think is a must on a f30 but thats just my take on it and yes I did have a e90
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      05-28-2013, 01:42 PM   #16
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Actually I had not researched this topic and thusly I was not aware it was done to death. Sorry....maybe it is also seen as bashing, but in reality if anyone was to test drive them side then I guess that's where the naysayers would be put in their place. Honestly I was just so surprised about how similar I anticipated feel of the ergonomics to be....but was let down (sorry - not trying to bash again!). I am not comparing the ride differences due to tire and wheel deviations nor am I comparing a normal ride to a sport package ride. I am a seasoned driver w/substantial experience to know the difference expected between high performance tire/wheels w/Std offerings and the ride deviation that comes with it.

Yes the 335 and 328 targets are different but overall the German quality has gone down ....that was more my point.

Note: The dealership might have locked much of the iDrive out on the loaner (if possible) since there are no options for lighting, ASS, lock/unlock, even changing the radio station presets! I'm guessing that's also why there is no Bluetooth or music input options available. The phone and "speak" buttons don't work on the steering wheel either, again maybe a locked out "feature".

Oh and a quip about the steering wheel buttons: I do appreciate the more functions available w/the new design - however for US drivers (same for all other right drive countries) The buttons seem like they are on the opposite side for ergonomics sake. All of the cruise control buttons are on the left section and all radio, phone and others are clustered on the right side. The right side (on a NA drive vehicle) will likely be held (with a single hand) while one shifts gears. Swapping the steering wheel buttons would seem appropriate as no-one would ever be setting cruise controls and shifting at the same time. Where-as one may be more likely to use the other buttons while shifting or preparing to shift.

Wow that engine does sputter to a stop and start as mentioned before w/328's. I'm guessing that feature was designed to limit emissions as well as provide BMW with a future in parts and service?
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      05-28-2013, 02:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphy522 View Post
Well I've had a 2013 328i (very basic trim) for a week now as my 2007 335i is getting new turbos, front suspension work (bushings replaced) and a leaking mechatronics seal replaced. My 335 has the sport and premium packages along with the Logic7 HK stereo - just so that readers understand what I am "used to".

I would say the only things I consider an improvement on the new model 3 series are: the location of the cup holders, the comfort access (a feature I cold have gotten back in 2007) and the look (lines) of the front of the car.

The 2.0 turbo and that horrible start/stop feature when coming to a complete stop are probably the worst thing. I can see having to replace a starter motor and wearing out much of the engine components prematurely due to large increases in the engine starting. It is proven that most engine wear occurs in starting of an engine (albeit larger wear comes with a cold engine, of course).

The controls, buttons and overall feel is of much lesser quality. I am curious if this is the same feeling from past 3 series owners? The engine is peppy for a 2.0 litre and the transmission is decent for an Automatic. The radio and iDrive is a mess. Can't imagine how many accidents are attributed to this unintuitive mishmash of "convenience features"

It just feels like so much less of a car. I am definitely not missing getting a new car - will hold onto mine for as long as I can. BWM really dropped the ball on this new F30 series IMHO.
I always felt that E9x interior was outdated, even when it first came out. Without Navi (which you don't have), it looked even more ancient Good quality, I agree, but too plain.

I always liked (still do) E92 design, but never found E90 too compelling. F30 made huge improvements in this department IMO.

And of course, as others've said, you drove a base beaten-up loaner.
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      05-28-2013, 02:33 PM   #18
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was the service covered by warranty, if not what was the damage $$$, and would you recommend keeping the car past the warranty period?

thanks
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      05-28-2013, 02:37 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphy522 View Post
Well I've had a 2013 328i (very basic trim) for a week now as my 2007 335i is getting new turbos, front suspension work (bushings replaced) and a leaking mechatronics seal replaced. My 335 has the sport and premium packages along with the Logic7 HK stereo - just so that readers understand what I am "used to".

...
I have basically the same car as your 335, less the premium package, but then that thing only gets you the auto-folding mirrors and some other stuff that is of little real value (IMO, after all, Lowes sells garage door openers for but $30), which the F30s have anyway. I'm not disappointed by the 328i, and I've had those base model loners as well.

I bought my kid an E91 that has the iDrive and radio just as the F30 does. It doesn't seem unituitive to me. Indeed, on her car, I can find the HD2 and HD3 radio stations which I have no idea how to access, let alone store, on my regular, non-iDrive radio in my car. Moreover, as I'm old enough to remember MLK's March on Washington (that's probably the very first thing in the world of which I have a memory), I was quite pleased with myself that my non-techie, non-computer savvy brain could figure it out without using the manual. Just mess with it a bit, I'm sure it'll come to you in no time. Now, my father, who also has a E92 coupe with navigation and iDrive, still requires that I program the thing for him. But then he's 95; I'm not all that sure he's made much of an effort to make sense of it.

I have to agree, however, I like the feel/hand of the radio and temperature controls better on the E9x cars, and I like the E9x cup holders better (please, everyone, enough has been said about what's good and bad about the E9x cup holders, let's not hijack this thread over it).

All that notwithstanding, I respect that everyone is entitled to their opinion about liking and not liking the interior design of a car. What I don't really understand is why you think the iDrive would cause accidents. I can see that happening if one has the BMW Apps, but then one shouldn't be driving an messing around on Facebook (or whatever) at the same time, and those who do, deserve, as much as anyone, the misfortune that befalls them. Aside from changing the radio station or choosing a tune from one's iPod, I can't imagine what else one would do with the damn thing while also driving, and thus cause an accident.

FWIW, I suspect no accidents are ever attributed to the convenience features of any car. As far as I know, every automobile accident that has ever, or will, happened, occurred as a result of acts of God, critters, and people. I will grant though that there must be some accidents that result from a failed mechanical part and the car's owner couldn't have reasonably been expected to know the part would fail, or operate, in the case of those cars that become possessed by Satan or aliens and just up and start accelerating, all the while the driver has the brake depressed.
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      05-28-2013, 04:38 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphy522 View Post
Actually I had not researched this topic and thusly I was not aware it was done to death. Sorry....maybe it is also seen as bashing, but in reality if anyone was to test drive them side then I guess that's where the naysayers would be put in their place. Honestly I was just so surprised about how similar I anticipated feel of the ergonomics to be....but was let down (sorry - not trying to bash again!). I am not comparing the ride differences due to tire and wheel deviations nor am I comparing a normal ride to a sport package ride. I am a seasoned driver w/substantial experience to know the difference expected between high performance tire/wheels w/Std offerings and the ride deviation that comes with it.

Yes the 335 and 328 targets are different but overall the German quality has gone down ....that was more my point.

Note: The dealership might have locked much of the iDrive out on the loaner (if possible) since there are no options for lighting, ASS, lock/unlock, even changing the radio station presets! I'm guessing that's also why there is no Bluetooth or music input options available. The phone and "speak" buttons don't work on the steering wheel either, again maybe a locked out "feature".

Oh and a quip about the steering wheel buttons: I do appreciate the more functions available w/the new design - however for US drivers (same for all other right drive countries) The buttons seem like they are on the opposite side for ergonomics sake. All of the cruise control buttons are on the left section and all radio, phone and others are clustered on the right side. The right side (on a NA drive vehicle) will likely be held (with a single hand) while one shifts gears. Swapping the steering wheel buttons would seem appropriate as no-one would ever be setting cruise controls and shifting at the same time. Where-as one may be more likely to use the other buttons while shifting or preparing to shift.

Wow that engine does sputter to a stop and start as mentioned before w/328's. I'm guessing that feature was designed to limit emissions as well as provide BMW with a future in parts and service?
You now have driving modes, ECO/Comfort/Sport and or Sport+ that now have a drastic difference in the feel of responsiveness and steering weight that come standard on the F30 that you did not on the E90. Many guys have a habit of getting in an F30 and not even knowing what to do with those settings.

I find the F30 interior a great place to be, the E90 has felt dated to me for a long while. The only place I find really cheapened is the felt liner of the door pockets, the E90 was completely lined while the F30 has much less.
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      05-28-2013, 07:59 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisny
Yeah, pretty pointless to compare a base model 328 to a well equipped 335. While a few of your complaints may apply to even a loaded 335, the bigger issues go away by getting options more comparable to what you have.
Yeah, you are correct. But, I love reading people's thoughts on the cars they drive.

I really like to know how people feel about their car or the car they drove as a loaner.

Opinions are like buttholes---everyone's got one and they all stink. But, I do get a kick out of reading this stuff. So long as its not meant to hurt anyone.
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      05-29-2013, 07:09 AM   #22
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I have basically the same car as your 335, less the premium package, but then that thing only gets you the auto-folding mirrors and some other stuff that is of little real value (IMO, after all, Lowes sells garage door openers for but $30), which the F30s have anyway. I'm not disappointed by the 328i, and I've had those base model loners as well.

I bought my kid an E91 that has the iDrive and radio just as the F30 does. It doesn't seem unituitive to me. Indeed, on her car, I can find the HD2 and HD3 radio stations which I have no idea how to access, let alone store, on my regular, non-iDrive radio in my car. Moreover, as I'm old enough to remember MLK's March on Washington (that's probably the very first thing in the world of which I have a memory), I was quite pleased with myself that my non-techie, non-computer savvy brain could figure it out without using the manual. Just mess with it a bit, I'm sure it'll come to you in no time. Now, my father, who also has a E92 coupe with navigation and iDrive, still requires that I program the thing for him. But then he's 95; I'm not all that sure he's made much of an effort to make sense of it.

I have to agree, however, I like the feel/hand of the radio and temperature controls better on the E9x cars, and I like the E9x cup holders better (please, everyone, enough has been said about what's good and bad about the E9x cup holders, let's not hijack this thread over it).

All that notwithstanding, I respect that everyone is entitled to their opinion about liking and not liking the interior design of a car. What I don't really understand is why you think the iDrive would cause accidents. I can see that happening if one has the BMW Apps, but then one shouldn't be driving an messing around on Facebook (or whatever) at the same time, and those who do, deserve, as much as anyone, the misfortune that befalls them. Aside from changing the radio station or choosing a tune from one's iPod, I can't imagine what else one would do with the damn thing while also driving, and thus cause an accident.

FWIW, I suspect no accidents are ever attributed to the convenience features of any car. As far as I know, every automobile accident that has ever, or will, happened, occurred as a result of acts of God, critters, and people. I will grant though that there must be some accidents that result from a failed mechanical part and the car's owner couldn't have reasonably been expected to know the part would fail, or operate, in the case of those cars that become possessed by Satan or aliens and just up and start accelerating, all the while the driver has the brake depressed.
Tony - Well noted about the iDrive actually causing accidents. After all that's like stating that guns kill people. Do I sense a hint of the Audi "sudden acceleration" issue in your response too?
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