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      02-20-2013, 03:57 PM   #1
Surefoot
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Help With Review of Lease Numbers - signing today

Negotiated Invoice + $400 for a 335i xDrive Sedan. 36 month lease / 12,000 miles per year.

Base invoice = $41,540

Options at invoice:

Paint - $500
M Sport - $2,910
Premium - $2,000
Technology - $2,820
Cold Weather - $865
Dynamic Handling - $910
Destination - $895
MACO & Training - $480
Dealer Profit - $400

Total Selling Price = $53,320
MSRP = $57,045

NY tax = 8.875

Tax will be rolled into lease payment

Additional Fees:

Acquisition Fee - $725
Doc Fee - $75
DMV - $100
Inspectin - $10
Tire Tax - $12.50
Tax on Acq Fee - $64.34
Tax on $1,000 Rebate - $88.75
Total additional fees due at signing = $1,075.59

$1,000 Rebate (from BMW FS) applied to reduce drive off cost

Residual = 62%
MF = 0.00130

Any chance someone can double check my lease payment to make sure I'm not getting screwed? This is my first lease, and the CA has been a little flakey with the numbers throughout the negotiation process, so want to be sure the final payment is correct.

Thanks so much for your help.
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      02-20-2013, 04:20 PM   #2
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What kind of monthly has he quoted you? I'm getting almost $712.63 with nothing down. Pretty much what you suggested above... Only thing i'm not sure about is that the Amount due, does it count towards the capitalized cost? Or not?

Someone I'm sure can double check my calculations...
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      02-20-2013, 04:26 PM   #3
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You've got a .0003 mark-up to the MF, bringing it to 0.0016 (instead of 0.0013), which is why your number is coming out so high.

The amount due at delivery should be 1st months + acquisiton fee + doc fee + inspection + registration + tire tax + acq fee tax + rebate tax - $1,000 lease cash.

You have the lease cash applied as a cap cost reduction (I think).

Also, you have an extra $400 added in. My invoice+$400 dealer profit = $53,320.
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      02-20-2013, 04:29 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surefoot View Post
You've got a .0003 mark-up to the MF, bringing it to 0.0016 (instead of 0.0013), which is why your number is coming out so high.

The amount due at delivery should be 1st months + acquisiton fee + doc fee + inspection + registration + tire tax + acq fee tax + rebate tax - $1,000 lease cash.

You have the lease cash applied as a cap cost reduction (I think).

Also, you have an extra $400 added in. My invoice+$400 dealer profit = $53,320.
Right. But I was going by the numbers you posted above. You didn't include 1st month's payment. Your total due at signing is listed as: $1,075.59
which doesn't include 1st month's payment. That's why I didn't include it.

Edit: Just read your latest msg. Let me run it again.

Last edited by ssedha; 02-20-2013 at 04:35 PM.
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      02-20-2013, 04:33 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssedha View Post
Right. But I was going by the numbers you posted above. You didn't include 1st month's payment. Your total due at signing is listed as: $1,075.59
which doesn't include 1st month's payment. That's why I didn't include it.
My "Total additional fees due at signing" are $1,075.59. The 1st month's payment is in addition to that amount, and then the $1,000 BMWFS rebate is subtracted from that total.

Mind re-running on your spreadsheet with a 0.0013 MF and a $53,320 sale price (getting rid of the duplicative $400 dealer profit line)?

Thanks very much!
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      02-20-2013, 04:35 PM   #6
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Cool spreadsheet! Few tips on sales tax: NY state wants sales tax upfront. Dealer can capitalize it however that means you have to factor in interest on capitalized sales tax. Also, NY is the only state that charges sales tax on capitalized sales tax.
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      02-20-2013, 04:45 PM   #7
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ok. ran the numbers again. hopefully it makes better sense now. Essentially there is NO cap cost reduction. Your due @ signing includes the 1000 rebate.
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      02-20-2013, 04:47 PM   #8
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Here is what I got from my App. The only thing is that I don't have an option of using cash rebates towards upfront cost. I should work on that.

Monthly payment came out to $676.56. Substract $1000 from the Total Due at Signing -> 1752.15 - 1000 = $752.15.

Close?
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      02-20-2013, 04:49 PM   #9
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I ran your numbers into my spreadsheet and get 637/month.

This assumes your $$ due at signing is $1075 + 1st month payment. I am also taking $1000 off from your sell cost as well.
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      02-20-2013, 04:50 PM   #10
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Neat spreadsheet!!
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      02-20-2013, 05:30 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kobechrome View Post
I ran your numbers into my spreadsheet and get 637/month.

This assumes your $$ due at signing is $1075 + 1st month payment. I am also taking $1000 off from your sell cost as well.
I'm also getting the $668.45 per month that ssedha is getting.

How are you getting $637 per month? Any chance you are using the 63% residual (which is for the 10k per year lease) instead of 62%?
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      02-20-2013, 06:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssedha View Post
ok. ran the numbers again. hopefully it makes better sense now. Essentially there is NO cap cost reduction. Your due @ signing includes the 1000 rebate.
here was my mistake, i took another 1000 off your selling price based on how i read your email. if you're selling price including the 1k rebate is 53,320 then I get $668.45.
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      02-20-2013, 06:47 PM   #13
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668.45 is in the ballpark but not accurate. You guys are not factoring in:

1) Interest on Capitalized sales tax
2) NY rule of charging sales tax on capitalized sales tax

Your payment should be around $676.56.
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      02-20-2013, 06:51 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haris View Post
668.45 is in the ballpark but not accurate. You guys are not factoring in:

1) Interest on Capitalized sales tax
2) NY rule of charging sales tax on capitalized sales tax

Your payment should be around $676.56.
Sales tax is rolled into the payment in this case so isn't this irrelevant? Tax is already on the total amount.
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      02-20-2013, 07:45 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kobechrome View Post
Sales tax is rolled into the payment in this case so isn't this irrelevant? Tax is already on the total amount.
It is relevent. Rolling tax into payment is not same as charging tax on monthly payment.

States such as CA/FL charge tax on monthly payment and tax is collected every month.

States such as NY/NJ/OH etc charge sales tax on SUM of monthly payment and tax is due upfront. If you are leasing in one of these states you have 2 options:

a) pay sales tax due upfront or
b) capitalize it (add it to cap cost).

If you capitalize sales tax then you have to pay interest on this money borrowed from BMWFS. So calculate payment in 2 runs, first calculate the pre-tax payment. Figure out sales tax, add it to cap cost and re-calculate the payment. However, in case of NY there is an additional step before adding sales tax to cap cost: you have to apply tax on sales tax being capped -- the only state that does this.
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      02-20-2013, 08:17 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haris View Post
It is relevent. Rolling tax into payment is not same as charging tax on monthly payment.

States such as CA/FL charge tax on monthly payment and tax is collected every month.

States such as NY/NJ/OH etc charge sales tax on SUM of monthly payment and tax is due upfront. If you are leasing in one of these states you have 2 options:

a) pay sales tax due upfront or
b) capitalize it (add it to cap cost).

If you capitalize sales tax then you have to pay interest on this money borrowed from BMWFS. So calculate payment in 2 runs, first calculate the pre-tax payment. Figure out sales tax, add it to cap cost and re-calculate the payment. However, in case of NY there is an additional step before adding sales tax to cap cost: you have to apply tax on sales tax being capped -- the only state that does this.
Haris - thanks for responding to this post. Would you please humor me a little more? Does this mean that I'll pay 8.875% tax on the lease (which let's say ends up at $X of total sales tax), and then if I decide to capitalize the $X of total sales tax, then I pay an additional 8.875% sales tax on the $X?

If so, I think I have to just pay the sales tax up front. Even if it isn't a lot per month, it just offends my sensibilities in such a way that I can get comfortable paying the tax upfront even though I worry about losing it if the car is stolen or wrecked.

Thanks so much!
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      02-20-2013, 10:05 PM   #17
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That is correct. Your sum of payments without tax is $22,104. Tax liability is $1961.73 (same as spreadsheet above). If you pay sales tax upfront that is the sales tax you pay (not including tax on rebate & acq fee).

If you roll it into cap cost your total sales tax with additional tax becomes: $2153 - then you add this to cap cost and recalculate your monthly payments -- now you are also paying interest on this 2153.

In the end rolling sales tax in NY will cost you additional $292 over the life of lease. See this comparison below -- again, subtract $1000 from due upfront and also total cost. Pay attention to Finance Charges and Total Tax.

+1 on paying sales tax upfront!
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      02-20-2013, 10:06 PM   #18
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Source: https://autoleasegeek.com/457/457
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      02-20-2013, 10:17 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haris
That is correct. Your sum of payments without tax is $22,104. Tax liability is $1961.73 (same as spreadsheet above). If you pay sales tax upfront that is the sales tax you pay (not including tax on rebate & acq fee).

If you roll it into cap cost your total sales tax with additional tax becomes: $2153 - then you add this to cap cost and recalculate your monthly payments -- now you are also paying interest on this 2153.

In the end rolling sales tax in NY will cost you additional $292 over the life of lease. See this comparison below -- again, subtract $1000 from due upfront and also total cost. Pay attention to Finance Charges and Total Tax.

+1 on paying sales tax upfront!
Good practice to not pay for anything up front. You will have to evaluate 292 over the life of the lease vs potentially losing that amount should something happen to the car.
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      02-20-2013, 11:11 PM   #20
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I agree but its not same as paying a large cap cost reduction aka down payment.
In fact, you can claim sales tax refund if total the car:
http://www.nysdta.org/Determinations/816201.det.pdf
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      02-20-2013, 11:17 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haris View Post
That is correct. Your sum of payments without tax is $22,104. Tax liability is $1961.73 (same as spreadsheet above). If you pay sales tax upfront that is the sales tax you pay (not including tax on rebate & acq fee).

If you roll it into cap cost your total sales tax with additional tax becomes: $2153 - then you add this to cap cost and recalculate your monthly payments -- now you are also paying interest on this 2153.

In the end rolling sales tax in NY will cost you additional $292 over the life of lease. See this comparison below -- again, subtract $1000 from due upfront and also total cost. Pay attention to Finance Charges and Total Tax.

+1 on paying sales tax upfront!
Extremely helpful - thanks so much for walking me through this.

For anyone looking for more information, I found a guide to NY sales tax for car dealers published by NY State Dept of Taxation and Finance: http://www.tax.ny.gov/pdf/publications/sales/pub839.pdf

This issue is discussed on pp. 15-16 under "Dealer financing of sales tax."

What I'm now struggling with is the possibility of losing the sales tax if I pay it up front and the car is later stolen or destroyed.

From p. 10 under "Limitations on refunds and credits of sales tax paid on
motor vehicle leases": Once a lease has been entered into and the customer has paid the tax due at the inception of the lease, no refund or credit of tax paid is allowed to either the dealer or the customer (except as explained below) if the lease is terminated early, even if the lease is terminated because the vehicle is destroyed in an accident."

I'm concerned about pre-paying the tax for the same reason I'm concerned about reducing my cap cost with money down. I don't want to lose it if the car is stolen or destroyed next week.

Between this and the fact that you can't do MSDs in NY State, it turns out to be a pretty $hitty place to lease a car.
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      02-20-2013, 11:46 PM   #22
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Nothing beats Chicago. You pay IL State sales tax upfront on the entire value of the car (not just monthly payment) + Chicago charges 10.25% city use tax on the monthly payment!!!
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