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      02-19-2013, 11:52 AM   #1
metrathon
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Diesel hate

I'm relatively new to US and one thing I don't get is why all the diesel hate? Why so few diesel offerings?
A diesel it's a much better alternative to a gutless hybrid: same mpg or better, faster, more power, much more torque and so much more fun to drive.
What can be better than a 3.0 diesel with 260 hp / 413 lb-ft all while doing 40 mpg city and 55 highway?

Can someone explain?
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      02-19-2013, 12:45 PM   #2
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+1, I couldn't agree more. We lack diesel options here... Our emission standards, especially in Cali are too strict. I rented a A6 TDI last year in Germany and loved that engine. With the exception of VW, diesels tend to be very expensive cars here.
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      02-19-2013, 12:56 PM   #3
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And what's with the diesel price? More expensive than the premium gas? It's truck fuel for God's sake

On a side note I find VW being a ripoff here in US: expensive strippers with old engines.
In Western Europe they're nothing more than what the name says: people's car. But here, there's sort of a "premium" aura to them and people seems to buy into that.
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      02-19-2013, 01:10 PM   #4
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I'd like an answer as well. I was really hoping for a 4-series diesel, but it doesn't look like the US is getting one.
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      02-19-2013, 01:18 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robbieracer View Post
+1, I couldn't agree more. We lack diesel options here... Our emission standards, especially in Cali are too strict. I rented a A6 TDI last year in Germany and loved that engine. With the exception of VW, diesels tend to be very expensive cars here.
Too strict? So what's with ocean of 10+ years old Chevy/Ford/GM trucks with huge engines, drum brakes, 10 mpg combined and no airbags? Is that cleaner then a A6 TDI?
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      02-19-2013, 01:32 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metrathon View Post
I'm relatively new to US and one thing I don't get is why all the diesel hate? Why so few diesel offerings?
A diesel it's a much better alternative to a gutless hybrid: same mpg or better, faster, more power, much more torque and so much more fun to drive.
What can be better than a 3.0 diesel with 260 hp / 413 lb-ft all while doing 40 mpg city and 55 highway?

Can someone explain?
I agree. There are a ton of great diesel options out there now. They don't rattle or smoke anymore and get great mileage while being really torquey.
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      02-19-2013, 01:34 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metrathon View Post
I'm relatively new to US and one thing I don't get is why all the diesel hate? Why so few diesel offerings?
A diesel it's a much better alternative to a gutless hybrid: same mpg or better, faster, more power, much more torque and so much more fun to drive.
What can be better than a 3.0 diesel with 260 hp / 413 lb-ft all while doing 40 mpg city and 55 highway?

Can someone explain?
The first diesel cars offered by American companies back in the 80s were so bad that the entire of North America developed a hate for diesel cars. Only now are we starting to get over it. Its really that simple.
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      02-19-2013, 02:11 PM   #8
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I saw the same hate for diesel in russia 10 years ago. Everybody claimed diesels as noisy, smoky and inreliable on winter time engines. But today, when gas price went up nearly 5 times since then and, to be honest, diesels improved - everybody start like it. As i leave in europe now - buying petrol car here is smth about being mad. It's hardly possible to sell used petrol car here.
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      02-19-2013, 02:15 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by antah View Post
I saw the same hate for diesel in russia 10 years ago. Everybody claimed diesels as noisy, smoky and inreliable on winter time engines. But today, when gas price went up nearly 5 times since then and, to be honest, diesels improved - everybody start like it. As i leave in europe now - buying petrol car here is smth about being mad. It's hardly possible to sell used petrol car here.
What's the consumption on that 320d of yours? Does it beat Prius'?
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      02-19-2013, 02:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metrathon View Post
What's the consumption on that 320d of yours? Does it beat Prius'?
in a trip average speed 120 Km/h "~75 mph" 2-3 times 200 km/h "125 mph" rolls and agressive pulls I have 5.0 L/100km "47 mpg"
if I stick to ecopro suggestions and accelerate calm it goes down to 4.3 l/100Km
"~55 mpg"
in town with aggressive driving I get 7.5 l/100km "~32mpg"
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      02-19-2013, 02:47 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badulay View Post
in a trip average speed 120 Km/h "~75 mph" 2-3 times 200 km/h "125 mph" rolls and agressive pulls I have 5.0 L/100km "47 mpg"
if I stick to ecopro suggestions and accelerate calm it goes down to 4.3 l/100Km
"~55 mpg"
in town with aggressive driving I get 7.5 l/100km "~32mpg"
I would love seeing the Prius do 125 mph rolls and getting 47 mpg
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      02-19-2013, 03:04 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metrathon View Post
What's the consumption on that 320d of yours? Does it beat Prius'?
I don't know consumption of prius, so i can't compare, but mine 320d needs 6,3liter per 100km city and 5.2 (!!) on motorway at 130km/h.

But what I do know, is that prius does 0-60 for 10secs and my bmw is litlle bit more then 7sec.
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      02-19-2013, 04:26 PM   #13
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The hate goes back to the 70s, not the 80s. Diesels were offered in response to the energy crisis in the early 70s. As such, the manufacturers scrambled to create diesels out of gas engines. Those WERE crap. The stigma stuck though.

The main reason far a lack of diesels is the fact that gas has literally been cheaper than water ever since. Only very recently has the price spiked.

Diesel is so expensive because of all of the additional taxes levied against the heavy trucking industry. Consumers with passenger vehicles are innocent bystanders.
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      02-19-2013, 09:38 PM   #14
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I can tell you one thing,

I love love love the way diesel smells.

Just saying.

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      02-20-2013, 09:53 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atlas310 View Post
I'd like an answer as well. I was really hoping for a 4-series diesel, but it doesn't look like the US is getting one.
It would be awesome if we got a 4 series diesel here. I'd be all over that if it was the larger engine (430d/435d). I have never owned a 4 door and don't plan on ever buying one. My wife can drive the 4-door and I'll stick to the coupes...
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      02-20-2013, 10:02 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metrathon View Post
I'm relatively new to US and one thing I don't get is why all the diesel hate? Why so few diesel offerings?
A diesel it's a much better alternative to a gutless hybrid: same mpg or better, faster, more power, much more torque and so much more fun to drive.
What can be better than a 3.0 diesel with 260 hp / 413 lb-ft all while doing 40 mpg city and 55 highway?

Can someone explain?
What country in Europe are you from? I'm going to guess France since your view is prevalent there. Tell me if I'm wrong. In France you're aware that diesel has less tax than gasoline and is therefore cheaper, right? That is why people in France buy diesel cars. Nothing to do with performance or mileage. It's all about the sticker price at the pump. People will not see any further than that. Now revert the situation and make gasoline cheaper than diesel like in the US. You will find that most people buy gasoline cars.

It's as simple as that mon pote...
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      02-20-2013, 10:03 AM   #17
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* Pricer sticker price (~15% pricer seems to be the norm)
* Diesel is more expensive than premium, for a value minded consumer, an Hybrid that gets better MPG and runs on low end gas is cheaper to operate.
* Fuel economy of Hybrids in city is still better (on highway mileage, they are on par)
* There is always the possibility that the state of California will declare it as "known to cause cancer" because of the particulate problem and ban them, which would eventually trickle to all states. Since there are little cars in the US, it is a valid concern (in europe, it is much less, since that would in effect irate half the population).

That being said, I'd buy an F31 320d as a family hauler, if it were priced appropriately.
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      02-20-2013, 11:24 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ft1338 View Post
What country in Europe are you from? I'm going to guess France since your view is prevalent there. Tell me if I'm wrong. In France you're aware that diesel has less tax than gasoline and is therefore cheaper, right? That is why people in France buy diesel cars. Nothing to do with performance or mileage. It's all about the sticker price at the pump. People will not see any further than that. Now revert the situation and make gasoline cheaper than diesel like in the US. You will find that most people buy gasoline cars.

It's as simple as that mon pote...
Wrong twice. Right twice. It's a draw

I'm not from France, I'm from Romania. Close but not quite, we have more gipos
You spoke true, the diesel price at the pump makes a difference. But less now, as the diesel is almost as expensive as the gas.
You are wrong when you say that the mileage doesn't count. It's a HUGE factor in the decision. In most cases the diesel engine is twice as effective.
You are correct when you say ppl don't care about performance.
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      02-20-2013, 11:27 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meeni View Post
* Pricer sticker price (~15% pricer seems to be the norm)
* Diesel is more expensive than premium, for a value minded consumer, an Hybrid that gets better MPG and runs on low end gas is cheaper to operate.
* Fuel economy of Hybrids in city is still better (on highway mileage, they are on par)
* There is always the possibility that the state of California will declare it as "known to cause cancer" because of the particulate problem and ban them, which would eventually trickle to all states. Since there are little cars in the US, it is a valid concern (in europe, it is much less, since that would in effect irate half the population).

That being said, I'd buy an F31 320d as a family hauler, if it were priced appropriately.
Would you swap your 330i for a 330d?
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      02-20-2013, 02:44 PM   #20
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In my country tax is calculated by the volume of the motor and I paid 66 000 euro (86000$) for the car car actually costs around 32 0000 euros.. I could have a 328i nearly same price... As mentioned its all about gas, after 1 year 28i would double my expenses Because diesel is cheaper and it consumes less fuell
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      02-20-2013, 02:46 PM   #21
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In my country tax is calculated by the volume of the motor and I paid 66 000 euro (86000$) for the car car actually costs around 32 0000 euros.. I could have a 328i nearly same price... As mentioned its all about gas, after 1 year 28i would double my expenses Because diesel is cheaper and it consumes less fuell
You must be joking. $86k for a 320d????
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      02-20-2013, 02:55 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metrathon View Post
You must be joking. $86k for a 320d????
No jokes man we are being tortured by goverment like a 3 th world country.
3 series is considered high luxury car in our country if I was in US I would definitely go for a f150 raptor by the way for example if you are a constructor or have a company that reaches a certain amount of tax you dont pay tax for your car or gas so all luxury cars x5 whatever registered to private companies. I'm a doctor so I have no company or what I'm working my ass of to pay my loan
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