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BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > N20 and N26 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > BMS JB Stage 1 vs. AFE Power Scorcher Module
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      02-23-2013, 11:57 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roup23 View Post
I started the other BMS vs AFE tune thread. I ended up going with BMS because most the other members had experience with it unlike the AFE tune which is relatively new. So it made sense to go with the more reputable one.
I made no mistake, get the BMS you won't be disappointed. I have shocked others with my "328i" , and It always puts a smile on my face . With the tune, plus a temporary muffler delete (I was really curious how it sounds), and sports +, it surprises me how we can get that power off a n26!
Awesome man...any info on the effects on the warranty?
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      02-24-2013, 04:19 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Blake P
We need to line up some cars with BMS and AFE tunes (no exhaust, intake, IC, etc.) for some side by side comparisons, both from a dig and rolling. Ok, go!
That would be awesome and I totally agree with you! That's the only way you can truly know which of the tunes performances the best.
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      02-24-2013, 04:26 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roup23
I started the other BMS vs AFE tune thread. I ended up going with BMS because most the other members had experience with it unlike the AFE tune which is relatively new. So it made sense to go with the more reputable one.
I made no mistake, get the BMS you won't be disappointed. I have shocked others with my "328i" , and It always puts a smile on my face . With the tune, plus a temporary muffler delete (I was really curious how it sounds), and sports +, it surprises me how we can get that power off a n26!
No way! Sounds like BMS is the way to go. Looks like I will be purchasing the tune very soon! And how long have you had it on your car? Run into any engine problems? Anything at all? I just want to know if the tune could possibly ruin the turbos or the engine. Because my car is a lease and i really wouldn't want to damage and pay for damages on the engine or turbos.
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      02-24-2013, 04:32 AM   #26
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I have the aFe tune, and I'm very happy with the results. It taps into two sensors (MAP & TMAP), which is different from BMS' method. By utilizing those two sensors only, I don't think boost pressure is touched. Instead, I think it modifies the AFR and TPS voltage to achieve results - pretty genius if you ask me, and it should be a very safe and reliable tune for these reasons.

Install is a 5 minute affair, very easy to install and remove.

Fuel economy has improved for me - in two full tanks since install, MPG went from 29.1 to 30.5 and 30.3 per tank. That's with the same driving behavior before & after - commute to/from work.

That being said, the aFe solution likely will not have an upgradeable Stage 2 like the BMS tune, as there aren't any accessible ports.

You can't go wrong with either choice IMO. I went with aFe for the ease of install and reliability in how it goes about achieving the power increase (not touching boost pressure).
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      02-24-2013, 07:27 AM   #27
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Awesome man...any info on the effects on the warranty?
Of course it might, if BMW can 'prove' the tune cause the problem. This is why Mike states the S1 does not throw any codes and the unit can easily be removed prior to taking the car in to the dealer for any warranty work.

You can read other threads, which discusses this and other mods & possible warranty ramifications.

Common sense should prevail.
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      02-24-2013, 07:28 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///KM View Post
You can't go wrong with either choice IMO.
I agree. Both are fairly light boosts.
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      02-24-2013, 11:18 AM   #29
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My car is a lease too! And I had the same exact concern as you guys with warranty and ruining the engine and turbos. I was also very worried about the car throwing any hidden tuner codes that BMW might be able to access, so I bought the CAN tool from BMS which apparently "automatically deletes" codes if they should appear, but ill never know about that one cause there is no light on the Can tool or indication that anything is going on cause of the limited support on the F30, sucks I know :/.
As for engine problems I haven't ran into any and I have had the tune for about 3 months now, turbos definitely are louder especially in sports mode (which is to be expected!).
But keep in mind this is a very mild tune, and tricks the Cars ecu setting within its own parameters, so it really shouldn't set off any flags with warranty. Just don't drive the car like a racecar redlining it alllll the time, you should be fine
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      02-24-2013, 12:24 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David328M-Sport View Post
Of course it might, if BMW can 'prove' the tune cause the problem. This is why Mike states the S1 does not throw any codes and the unit can easily be removed prior to taking the car in to the dealer for any warranty work.

You can read other threads, which discusses this and other mods & possible warranty ramifications.

Common sense should prevail.
Great..thanks for the reply...I will continue to research. I have had heavily modified cars in the past and I told myself I would not mod this one....that may be out the window especially for this tune which is easy to remove, fairly inexpensive and makes so much power. The aFe sounds intriguing as well now...good stuff guys
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      02-24-2013, 06:23 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///KM View Post
I have the aFe tune, and I'm very happy with the results. It taps into two sensors (MAP & TMAP), which is different from BMS' method. By utilizing those two sensors only, I don't think boost pressure is touched. Instead, I think it modifies the AFR and TPS voltage to achieve results - pretty genius if you ask me, and it should be a very safe and reliable tune for these reasons.

Install is a 5 minute affair, very easy to install and remove.

Fuel economy has improved for me - in two full tanks since install, MPG went from 29.1 to 30.5 and 30.3 per tank. That's with the same driving behavior before & after - commute to/from work.

That being said, the aFe solution likely will not have an upgradeable Stage 2 like the BMS tune, as there aren't any accessible ports.

You can't go wrong with either choice IMO. I went with aFe for the ease of install and reliability in how it goes about achieving the power increase (not touching boost pressure).
No, it modifies the MAP and TMAP output, which are both boost sensors, to fool the car in to thinking its running a little less boost than it actually is. And the DME responds by raising duty cycle adding a little boost. The BMS JB Stage1 uses a similar technique to fool the DME but with addl sensor data available to it has a more sophisticated algorithm.

The Stage2 upgrade kit is basically a new control box and 4 extra wires that plug in to give the tune full CAN access. Which opens up a whole new world on the tuning end. I'm hoping they will do some dyno testing next week for me to share. Their 328 has had the Stage2 BETA on it for a couple weeks now.

Mike
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      02-24-2013, 06:37 PM   #32
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Their 328 has had the Stage2 BETA on it for a couple weeks now.

Mike
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      02-24-2013, 07:18 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
No, it modifies the MAP and TMAP output, which are both boost sensors, to fool the car in to thinking its running a little less boost than it actually is. And the DME responds by raising duty cycle adding a little boost. The BMS JB Stage1 uses a similar technique to fool the DME but with addl sensor data available to it has a more sophisticated algorithm.

The Stage2 upgrade kit is basically a new control box and 4 extra wires that plug in to give the tune full CAN access. Which opens up a whole new world on the tuning end. I'm hoping they will do some dyno testing next week for me to share. Their 328 has had the Stage2 BETA on it for a couple weeks now.

Mike
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiltmode43 View Post
Man, I can't wait!
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      02-24-2013, 07:38 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
The Stage2 upgrade kit is basically a new control box and 4 extra wires that plug in to give the tune full CAN access. Which opens up a whole new world on the tuning end. I'm hoping they will do some dyno testing next week for me to share. Their 328 has had the Stage2 BETA on it for a couple weeks now.
Great news. Thanks for the update and a little more info about BMS Stage 1.
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      02-24-2013, 09:48 PM   #35
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do you need to have stg 1 prior to purchasing stg 2 when it comes out? or can u just buy into stg 2 right away?
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      02-24-2013, 10:51 PM   #36
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do you need to have stg 1 prior to purchasing stg 2 when it comes out? or can u just buy into stg 2 right away?
Step 1 - Stage 1
Step 2 - Plug Stage 2 into back of Stage 1.

Yep. Stage 1 first, then Stage 2 when it arrives to market. Or you could buy both at the same time, but install S1 first, then S2.
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      02-25-2013, 12:25 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///KM View Post
I have the aFe tune, and I'm very happy with the results. It taps into two sensors (MAP & TMAP), which is different from BMS' method. By utilizing those two sensors only, I don't think boost pressure is touched. Instead, I think it modifies the AFR and TPS voltage to achieve results - pretty genius if you ask me, and it should be a very safe and reliable tune for these reasons.

Install is a 5 minute affair, very easy to install and remove.

Fuel economy has improved for me - in two full tanks since install, MPG went from 29.1 to 30.5 and 30.3 per tank. That's with the same driving behavior before & after - commute to/from work.

That being said, the aFe solution likely will not have an upgradeable Stage 2 like the BMS tune, as there aren't any accessible ports.

You can't go wrong with either choice IMO. I went with aFe for the ease of install and reliability in how it goes about achieving the power increase (not touching boost pressure).

Now if I were to take my car to service would they be able to see the codes from the aFe tune or would they be able to trace it to that? Because I know with BMS they wouldn't be able to know.

Thanks for the help btw!
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      02-25-2013, 09:47 AM   #38
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I wonder if any of the tuners are willing to issue a written guarantee (instead of internet banter) that their tunes will not trip hidden tune detection codes? If they are confident their tunes are safe, they should be willing to stand behind their marketing fluff with something binding.

Anybody with these tunes willing to take their cars to their local dealership and have the car checked for hidden tune detection codes?
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      02-25-2013, 10:40 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by mocohead
I wonder if any of the tuners are willing to issue a written guarantee (instead of internet banter) that their tunes will not trip hidden tune detection codes? If they are confident their tunes are safe, they should be willing to stand behind their marketing fluff with something binding.

Anybody with these tunes willing to take their cars to their local dealership and have the car checked for hidden tune detection codes?
Agreed!! Definitely a huge selling point for me lol
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      02-25-2013, 12:10 PM   #40
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I wonder if any of the tuners are willing to issue a written guarantee (instead of internet banter) that their tunes will not trip hidden tune detection codes? If they are confident their tunes are safe, they should be willing to stand behind their marketing fluff with something binding.

Anybody with these tunes willing to take their cars to their local dealership and have the car checked for hidden tune detection codes?
No one is going to want to be your partner in warranty fraud. But my advice if you are worried about tuner codes is to get BMS CAN Tool, the BT Cable, or the N20 Stage2 upgrade, all of which can read/delete hidden BMW tuner codes.

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      02-25-2013, 01:07 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
No one is going to want to be your partner in warranty fraud. But my advice if you are worried about tuner codes is to get BMS CAN Tool, the BT Cable, or the N20 Stage2 upgrade, all of which can read/delete hidden BMW tuner codes.

Mike
What you're saying is that you won't partner in warranty fraud, but if your customers want to commit it, you will gladly sell them a product to help. When you get a moment you might want to look-up the definition of hypocrisy...
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      02-25-2013, 01:39 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com
No one is going to want to be your partner in warranty fraud. But my advice if you are worried about tuner codes is to get BMS CAN Tool, the BT Cable, or the N20 Stage2 upgrade, all of which can read/delete hidden BMW tuner codes.
Mike
Mike, thank you for all the info you post on the forums, I just have to clarify something for everyone else from first hand experience. The CAN tool does not have the capability to read codes on the f30. I was misinformed about this from Terry, who said it can "read/delete" codes but in fact only auto deletes codes. You really don't know if its deleting anything, you just plug it in and hope it does what its supposed to do. If you really want to see/read if any hidden codes are thrown get the BT cable. Im sure The CAN tool works great on other bodys but not the F30
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      02-25-2013, 01:51 PM   #43
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What you're saying is that you won't partner in warranty fraud, but if your customers want to commit it, you will gladly sell them a product to help. When you get a moment you might want to look-up the definition of hypocrisy...
Hypocrisy is one thing, law-suits are another. Welcome to America.
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      02-25-2013, 08:00 PM   #44
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What you're saying is that you won't partner in warranty fraud, but if your customers want to commit it, you will gladly sell them a product to help. When you get a moment you might want to look-up the definition of hypocrisy...
If your too much of a baby to mod your car then don't! Plus no one is going to take responsibility for your actions.

I got car warranty work performed on my car 3 times now and it has exhaust, intake and tune.
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