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BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > N20 and N26 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > BMS JB Stage 1 vs. AFE Power Scorcher Module
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      03-14-2013, 09:41 PM   #155
David328M-Sport
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkyMarkOz View Post
Can I be so bold to ask Mike or JB what the pin-out/spec of the cable is so I can make my own? Simple reason being it is only a $35 cable and by the time I pay for shipping to Australia, is it really worth it to either of us?
Yes, contact Stuart @ BMR Autowerkes via private message.
It's $40.00 here.
Just waiting on a word back as to stock.
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      03-19-2013, 10:42 PM   #156
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So how good is aFe Scorcher Module? There seems to be a ton of feedback and manufacture/reseller input about BMS, but not much on Scorcher??? Are there any comparative pros/cons??
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      03-19-2013, 10:50 PM   #157
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I've had the AFE in my car for 2 months no issues and beat my buddies f30 328i with the BMS stage 1. Takes no more than 5 min to install the AFE. I made the switch over to the BMS, I am selling my AFE for a good price, so I can get my hands on the stage 2 and make some power on C16 race gas and play around with the boost settings.
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      03-20-2013, 08:29 AM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboedv6 View Post
I've had the AFE in my car for 2 months no issues and beat my buddies f30 328i with the BMS stage 1. Takes no more than 5 min to install the AFE. I made the switch over to the BMS, I am selling my AFE for a good price, so I can get my hands on the stage 2 and make some power on C16 race gas and play around with the boost settings.
Now we know why you beat your buddies BMS car. The BMS tune ships at the default of +3psi and can be raised to 4psi on 93 octane.

Did your AFE tune have and adjustability, what octane and boost dud it run on?
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      03-20-2013, 08:33 AM   #159
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The AFE had no adjustments and was running 93 at 17psi.
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      03-20-2013, 08:36 AM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboedv6 View Post
The AFE had no adjustments and was running 93 at 17psi.
There ya go.

4psi stage 1 netted about 8whp more than the default setting, which is 25% more than the 3psi dyno.

So my guess is your race done over would be A dead heat.
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      03-20-2013, 08:40 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
There ya go.

4psi stage 1 netted about 8whp more than the default setting, which is 25% more than the 3psi dyno.

So my guess is your race done over would be A dead heat.
we may never find out as I have switched over to the BMS
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      03-20-2013, 08:44 AM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboedv6 View Post
we may never find out as I have switched over to the BMS
I know, you will be a great person to report back. But make sure you try both 3 and 4psi.
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      03-20-2013, 08:46 AM   #163
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I plan on going 5+psi
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      03-20-2013, 10:04 AM   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboedv6 View Post
I plan on going 5+psi
As long as you have the fuel to support it(C16 I think is +6psi), hell yeah!
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      03-20-2013, 10:12 AM   #165
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c16 works wonders.
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      03-20-2013, 03:13 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turboedv6 View Post
I plan on going 5+psi
Diminishing returns, depending on the gas used? Mike/BMS recommend the +1psi boost over S1 default with pump gas, but going as high as +6psi with E85 and 91AKI pump mix - calling it an E40.

Best power & torque results so far with the gas mix.
The adventure continues.
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      03-20-2013, 03:23 PM   #167
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I have 10 gallons left of c16 from tuning my Evo, you will be amazed on the power you can make with this stuff.
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      04-14-2013, 01:10 AM   #168
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Questioning BMS tune

Guys I am very new to this forum and have been sitting back reading posts about the bms tune. I have read in some sections that guys love the tune, trash talk the tune, and some that are not sure if there tune is even active. Maybe someone out there can clear up some of the questions I have. I want to buy this tuner however I've done some serious data logging in the past with my cammed dodge charger (previous car) and I don't like what I hear about some of its complaints. Can you guys help me out?

1. I have read that over time that the f30's computer adapts to the BMS tuning parameters. Is this true? If it is, then clearly this tune is not changing any parameters at all. It would in fact be sending false AFR numbers by delaying critical engine sensors (ei: changing the PWM of the sensors). Changing the PWM of the sensors just delays the information to the computer to fool it to add more boost (not sure if everyone understands). The only phsyical change in the ecu is the request for more boost during its most unstable condition; WOT. This is where air fuel ratio tables play an important role for engine performance. If this piggy back system does what I mentioned above then its possible that our engines are running too lean since there is no physical calculations made to change the ecu's tune. The stock ecu is then down tuning itself to prevent damage. All it may be thinking is that the ocatne level is too low.

2. There is some inconsistent dyno numbers out there. I've been on a few dyno's in the past and there accuracy varies within 10 whp not 20-30 whp range. Whats happening here?

3. No one has really reported better gas mileage. Usually when you install a tune especially on turbocharged engines, your fuel economy goes up considerably. I've seen no such numbers. Increasing boost requires higher octane for many reasons but the main reason is because your leaning out your fuel tables. Usually stock cars are tunned on the richer side since the tune is much more stable in extreme temperatures. Once you get up to the higher temps, you increase your chance of running an engine lean with a performance tune. This causes misfires and a piston going through the engine hood!

Anyway guys I am obviously just trying to figure out if this tune is safe. I honestly want to get the tune however I don't want to be screwing up a brand new car for an extra 15whp. Its not worth the money in the long run if I have to deal with these inconsistent variables.
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      04-15-2013, 11:21 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aspang86 View Post
Guys I am very new to this forum and have been sitting back reading posts about the bms tune. I have read in some sections that guys love the tune, trash talk the tune, and some that are not sure if there tune is even active. Maybe someone out there can clear up some of the questions I have. I want to buy this tuner however I've done some serious data logging in the past with my cammed dodge charger (previous car) and I don't like what I hear about some of its complaints. Can you guys help me out?

1. I have read that over time that the f30's computer adapts to the BMS tuning parameters. Is this true? If it is, then clearly this tune is not changing any parameters at all. It would in fact be sending false AFR numbers by delaying critical engine sensors (ei: changing the PWM of the sensors). Changing the PWM of the sensors just delays the information to the computer to fool it to add more boost (not sure if everyone understands). The only phsyical change in the ecu is the request for more boost during its most unstable condition; WOT. This is where air fuel ratio tables play an important role for engine performance. If this piggy back system does what I mentioned above then its possible that our engines are running too lean since there is no physical calculations made to change the ecu's tune. The stock ecu is then down tuning itself to prevent damage. All it may be thinking is that the ocatne level is too low.

2. There is some inconsistent dyno numbers out there. I've been on a few dyno's in the past and there accuracy varies within 10 whp not 20-30 whp range. Whats happening here?

3. No one has really reported better gas mileage. Usually when you install a tune especially on turbocharged engines, your fuel economy goes up considerably. I've seen no such numbers. Increasing boost requires higher octane for many reasons but the main reason is because your leaning out your fuel tables. Usually stock cars are tunned on the richer side since the tune is much more stable in extreme temperatures. Once you get up to the higher temps, you increase your chance of running an engine lean with a performance tune. This causes misfires and a piston going through the engine hood!

Anyway guys I am obviously just trying to figure out if this tune is safe. I honestly want to get the tune however I don't want to be screwing up a brand new car for an extra 15whp. Its not worth the money in the long run if I have to deal with these inconsistent variables.

1) The DME never adapts out the tuning. They have used the same basic principles on over 20,000 cars with great success over the years. It's a details business and you'd have to understand all the details to really understand how it works. For example, you probably don't know the factory fuel system runs full time closed loop using wideband o2 sensors.

2) With the N20 you get around 7-8whp per 1psi. If someone has a dyno showing only 10hp with +3psi, for example, then there is some issue with the car or how the power delta is being measured.

3) There is no change to fuel economy during normal operation. At cruise it runs 14.7:1. Under heavy boost levels, richer air/fuel ratios are targeted, and you need more fuel in general for the higher power levels, so you obviously get a slight mileage drop. But only while racing around.

Mike
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      04-16-2013, 12:47 AM   #170
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Mike thank you! Now that would make perfect sense as to why they are plugging into the air flow sensors. Its kind of hard not to trip out an O2 sensor when you dont take into consideration the air going in! I had no idea that the fuel system was closed loop. This also answers my other questions of lean tuning. Would you happen to know if the 320i can handle the 4psi boost? I know the piston heads are different from the 328i. I also didn't know these engines run afr of 14.7:1. thats pretty lean. if i did that to my last vehicle it would be in flames lol! Again thank you for your reply.
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      04-16-2013, 08:49 AM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkyMarkOz View Post
Can I be so bold to ask Mike or JB what the pin-out/spec of the cable is so I can make my own? Simple reason being it is only a $35 cable and by the time I pay for shipping to Australia, is it really worth it to either of us?
Quote:
Originally Posted by David328M-Sport View Post
Yes, contact Stuart @ BMR Autowerkes via private message.
It's $40.00 here.
Just waiting on a word back as to stock.
did u manage to get it?
PMed him but no reply
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      04-29-2013, 05:47 AM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VANOS View Post
I am having an issue with my BMS.My first run i got 5.8, second 5.8, third 5.7, last 5.9... I don't know whats going on, but i am hoping its just me. Before in the same weather and same way i have been testing, i would get 5.5 - 5.3!!! not i am getting 0-60 times like as if its a stock car (5.8)
Ok, so first thing to do is remove the BMS and return the car to stock. Do 0-60 runs. Maybe something else with the car is at fault. Maybe you will get even longer 0-60 times than standard stock, maybe not. But you have to go back to step 1.

Then install BMS (when the engine is cold of course) and try again.

Have you changed fuel quality? Any other mod to the car? Anything different? Extra weight in the car (trunk/boot)

Let us know how you go.
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      04-29-2013, 02:59 PM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VANOS View Post
Hey guys,

I am having an issue with my BMS. I don't know if it's me or its the chip, but I am not getting the same power as i was before. I have noticed it for a week and a half now and i decided to do several 0-60 runs. It was a cold night, clear night. It was 59 degrees. My first run i got 5.8, second 5.8, third 5.7, last 5.9... I don't know whats going on, but i am hoping its just me. Before in the same weather and same way i have been testing, i would get 5.5 - 5.3!!! not i am getting 0-60 times like as if its a stock car (5.8)

I truly hope its just me. Any reason why its acting this way? I would appreciate the help!
Perhaps a bad tank of gas. Maybe the JB4 noticed something unsafe and decided to dial back boost or disable itself. In cases like that you'd use the USB cable to do a short datalog and send that in to BMS for assistance.

Mike
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      05-01-2013, 01:38 PM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VANOS View Post
Hey mike,

Thats exactly what terry told me, in fact he told me to raise the boost over stock to +4 and log the data. Did that last night and said it was good. He also told me to leave the boost to +4 instead of 3. I run 91 octane and he was saying its a bit aggressive for it, but so far its been safe and he was saying thats what they run... Do you know anyone who's left it at +4 running 91 octane? And if so, any problems whatsoever?
I am only running +4 due to always using 93. But I am getting a bit of pulsing in power delivery this tank, almost like retarded timing. Likely a bad tank of gas(we asked for 93 in my wife's tuned Saab this week, then noticed he had put in 87!!!). So I would be very cautious with 91 and +4psi.
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      05-01-2013, 02:12 PM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VANOS View Post
Wow! Thats horrible man! Straight up ridiculous! :/ i would have been soo pissed. Well i am only using 91 from Chevron lol. From what terry was saying so far its been safe but i dont know if i should take the risk it or not. So you have it on four right now and are only using 93? Have you tried 91?
I have only been using +4 on 93, before was using +3 on 93.
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      05-01-2013, 02:20 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
I am only running +4 due to always using 93. But I am getting a bit of pulsing in power delivery this tank, almost like retarded timing. Likely a bad tank of gas(we asked for 93 in my wife's tuned Saab this week, then noticed he had put in 87!!!). So I would be very cautious with 91 and +4psi.
lol, whenever I'm in Jersey and get gas I always get out and pretend i'm stretching, when in fact, i'm checking to see the guy puts in the right fuel and closes the cap correctly
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