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      11-26-2016, 10:37 PM   #1
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Pure Turbos Stage 2 on 328i

Hey guys newbie here....

The other had a Pure Turbos Stage 2 kit installed on my 328 n26. Haven't had a lot of time to drive it around. Looking for a place to dyno in Las Vegas to get real power numbers. Here are a few pictures of the turbo..
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      11-27-2016, 05:06 AM   #2
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your internals are stock?

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Originally Posted by 702Boosted View Post
Hey guys newbie here....

The other had a Pure Turbos Stage 2 kit installed on my 328 n26. Haven't had a lot of time to drive it around. Looking for a place to dyno in Las Vegas to get real power numbers. Here are a few pictures of the turbo..
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      11-27-2016, 08:17 AM   #3
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Yeah they are stock
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      11-27-2016, 09:11 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by 702Boosted View Post
Yeah they are stock
how much boost you're running now at midrange (~3500rpm) and in the upper range (6000-6500rpm)?
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      11-27-2016, 11:06 AM   #5
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I just installed my Hexon Stage 2. Looks very similar. Also working on the tuning side. I have got my local Eurocharged to allow me to use their Dyno, and will be treading very carefully.

@ACFperformance in Brazil apparently tuned this car... 380HP to the wheel. Already emailed to to see if they will help with the tune on mine.

http://www.***********.com/showthrea...harger-upgrade
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      11-28-2016, 01:15 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enemigo13 View Post
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Originally Posted by 702Boosted View Post
Yeah they are stock
how much boost you're running now at midrange (~3500rpm) and in the upper range (6000-6500rpm)?
See this post on boost numbers.

http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41925
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      11-28-2016, 02:10 AM   #7
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I hope to try this later on!

My 320i is running map 2, 22psi with full bolt ons and it loves high boost. I get strong linear pulls in each gear. I would love to test higher boost. (It's seems to like 91 octane as well. I was running 93 at first, but don't notice much of a difference on 91)

What are the concerns here around pushing the engine with the pure turbo? How much boost are we talking? Is it necessary to upgrade internals like the timing chain, pistons, rods, etc.? How much psi is dinan pushing on their 328i big turbo? They're not upgrading the internals from what I understand? I wonder if it's the same case on the 320i as well...

Anyone running map 7 BTW?
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      11-28-2016, 02:36 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubok View Post
brazilian n20 is running 1.65 bar of boost with stock internals? Its already blown or still going? how many miles you think you will go @1.65bar with stock internals?
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      11-28-2016, 09:17 AM   #9
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I suppose the only solution for higher boost is thru JB4 or similar type of piggyback?

Flash tune options can only see until 1.5PSI due to the limitation on the sensor.... =(
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      11-28-2016, 10:09 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphblade@sg View Post
I suppose the only solution for higher boost is thru JB4 or similar type of piggyback?

Flash tune options can only see until 1.5PSI due to the limitation on the sensor.... =(
Apparently that is not true, the stock n20 TMAP has a range of up to 3.5 Bar absolute. That's 50PSI. Deduct 1 Atmosphere/Bar to bring to sea level and you have 35 PSI available. Now even if you keep 5PSI for head room, you've got 30PSI workable range.

Don't believe me Just google N20 TMAP. It's what all the N54 & N55 guys use.

So the flash tune can re-scale/recalibrate for higher boost.
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      11-28-2016, 01:28 PM   #11
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yes its 3500mbar sensor in the charge pipe but 2500mbar sensor in the intake manifold, and if you will max it out (it probably will happen in hot weather conditions) you will get limp mode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubok View Post
Apparently that is not true, the stock n20 TMAP has a range of up to 3.5 Bar absolute. That's 50PSI. Deduct 1 Atmosphere/Bar to bring to sea level and you have 35 PSI available. Now even if you keep 5PSI for head room, you've got 30PSI workable range.

Don't believe me Just google N20 TMAP. It's what all the N54 & N55 guys use.

So the flash tune can re-scale/recalibrate for higher boost.
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      11-28-2016, 03:10 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enemigo13 View Post
yes its 3500mbar sensor in the charge pipe but 2500mbar sensor in the intake manifold, and if you will max it out (it probably will happen in hot weather conditions) you will get limp mode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubok View Post
Apparently that is not true, the stock n20 TMAP has a range of up to 3.5 Bar absolute. That's 50PSI. Deduct 1 Atmosphere/Bar to bring to sea level and you have 35 PSI available. Now even if you keep 5PSI for head room, you've got 30PSI workable range.

Don't believe me Just google N20 TMAP. It's what all the N54 & N55 guys use.

So the flash tune can re-scale/recalibrate for higher boost.
Aha that makes sense!

So can we swap the MAP sensor with another TMAP and then rescale for that sensor in the tune?
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      11-29-2016, 04:59 AM   #13
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never done that but probably its possible. I would not chase for max boost at e.g. 3500rpm, as its not where max horsepower comes, you will get tons of torque there wich can harm engine internals. I would keep boost as high as possible in the upper rpm range - thats why dinan stage4 makes ~340hp but not much more torque and they tell its safe (not sure if its true).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubok View Post
Aha that makes sense!

So can we swap the MAP sensor with another TMAP and then rescale for that sensor in the tune?
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      11-29-2016, 07:21 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubok View Post
Aha that makes sense!

So can we swap the MAP sensor with another TMAP and then rescale for that sensor in the tune?
Very sure it doesn't work that way...

The TMAP sensor (be it a 2.5bar, 3.5bar, 100bar sensor), will convert the pressure sensed into a voltage which is usually between 0V to 5V?.

So by simply changing this TMAP sensor to one that can sense a higher value, it doesn't really change what the ECU sees. For example, previously, 2.5 bar may be 5V. With a higher pressure sensor, 2.5bar may now be 3V. The ECU will think that the pressure is lesser now perhaps at just 1.7Bar.

I do not think that the ECU will be able to understand a value that is higher than 5V for this case, it may think there is a short circuit somewhere.

So yes, a piggyback with the write firmware to translate the voltage back into the pressure will be the only possible way now, until a way to trick the ECU is developed.
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      11-29-2016, 09:08 AM   #15
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do you know what "rescale" means?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphblade@sg View Post
Very sure it doesn't work that way...

The TMAP sensor (be it a 2.5bar, 3.5bar, 100bar sensor), will convert the pressure sensed into a voltage which is usually between 0V to 5V?.

So by simply changing this TMAP sensor to one that can sense a higher value, it doesn't really change what the ECU sees. For example, previously, 2.5 bar may be 5V. With a higher pressure sensor, 2.5bar may now be 3V. The ECU will think that the pressure is lesser now perhaps at just 1.7Bar.

I do not think that the ECU will be able to understand a value that is higher than 5V for this case, it may think there is a short circuit somewhere.

So yes, a piggyback with the write firmware to translate the voltage back into the pressure will be the only possible way now, until a way to trick the ECU is developed.
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      12-01-2016, 09:43 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enemigo13 View Post
do you know what "rescale" means?
Yup. My tuner tried it, din work.



Supposedly MP is coming out with a solution, but haven't heard anything from them since.
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      12-01-2016, 10:05 AM   #17
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Spoke to Ricardo@ACFPerformance about this and apparently this engine really looks at the TMAP more, so not as critical, plus he said for now I won't need it.

He's adjusting his Stage 3 tune (for FBO with Turbo upgrade) for me for my gas and mods. We're targeting 450Nm to start (around 22PSI - so no where near max boost) and will run that up as far as possible. Should make about 350HP.

Easy to adjust since it's over Bootmod3, so he can adjust things and load another tune very easily if needed.

He also said the HPFP and Injectors are capable for 380-400HP, but after that I'll need over the top fueling. If I go that way I'll definitly replace the internals. CP Carrillo has a nice set out for our car now.
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      12-01-2016, 02:55 PM   #18
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How high do you hope to run the boost? Because 22 psi is what I am successfully running with FBO and the stock turbo (which I believe has headroom of up to 24 psi).
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      12-01-2016, 03:25 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWtight2me View Post
How high do you hope to run the boost? Because 22 psi is what I am successfully running with FBO and the stock turbo (which I believe has headroom of up to 24 psi).
Yes you hit 22PSI now, but you won't be holding 22PSI at 5000+ rpm, the stock Turbo just can't deliver the flow to keep the pressure up.

I'm hoping to hold 22PSI at higher revs and keep the torque curve flatter or at least from falling so rapidly. If I can hold the torque at 340lbft then at 5500rpm I'll hit my target.

340lbft x 5500rpm / 5252 = 356HP

For 380HP I need 363lbft at 5500rpm or 332lbft at 6000rpm. Conversely for 350HP at 6000rpm I need 306lbft.

most likely the boost and thus torque will taper down after 5500rpm anyway. But this shows I could still hit the target with lower torque. We'll soon find out
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      12-02-2016, 12:47 AM   #20
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With all the talk of internals on this post, I was wondering how much that would roughly cost? To build the motor, if anyone here has even done that yet?
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      12-02-2016, 01:03 AM   #21
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Quote:
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With all the talk of internals on this post, I was wondering how much that would roughly cost? To build the motor, if anyone here has even done that yet?
ABR gave me an estimate of 7-15K for Forged Rods/pistons, bolts, studs, bearings, machine work and labor.

For that kind of comprehensive build with the engine completely pulled and stripped down I think that's about right.

I was hoping I could pull the head, drop the sump, give the cylinders a quick honing, gap the rings and drop in Forged Rods/Piston (with hardened Rod bolts and upgraded wrist pins), but apparently the n20 is just a real pain to work on, and sealing the head back up is a nightmare.

So maybe it is just worth staying away from that.

But man I would love to do this...
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      12-02-2016, 03:18 AM   #22
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omg 7-15k... you can sell 328i buy 335i and even enough money will be left for pure stage2 turbo..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubok View Post
ABR gave me an estimate of 7-15K for Forged Rods/pistons, bolts, studs, bearings, machine work and labor.

For that kind of comprehensive build with the engine completely pulled and stripped down I think that's about right.

I was hoping I could pull the head, drop the sump, give the cylinders a quick honing, gap the rings and drop in Forged Rods/Piston (with hardened Rod bolts and upgraded wrist pins), but apparently the n20 is just a real pain to work on, and sealing the head back up is a nightmare.

So maybe it is just worth staying away from that.

But man I would love to do this...
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