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      07-03-2013, 06:35 AM   #1
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Post Motor Trend test: 335i xdrive with M Performance Power Kit (PPK)

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http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ve_first_test/

"While no track star, the 335i xDrive is a fairly attractive package. In addition to the practicality and capability of four doors and all-wheel drive, the sedan will also provide tons of smiles by outrunning a long list of sports cars and keeping pace with BMW's own M3. Just hope the race ends before the road gets curvy."

Highlights:
0-60: 4.4s (matches manual M3)
1/4 mile: 13.0@105.4
Figure 8: 25.6@0.75g
On 18" wheels
Had a positive take on the sport AT.


They were happy with straight line but ok'ish with it on the track. Lago did note the staggered set up would have been better.

Interestingly due to lack if launch control this is 0.4s slower than the S4 they tested but the 335i matches the 13s time in the quarter and is ahead on the trap speed by 0.4 mph
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      07-03-2013, 06:51 AM   #2
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good post. can imagine what happens with launch control in the my14s. rwd versions will prob hit 60 in 4.7-8 s.

i can't tell for sure if they had the DHP or not - it seems like not?
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      07-03-2013, 06:55 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATX78703
good post. can imagine what happens with launch control in the my14s. rwd versions will prob hit 60 in 4.7-8 s.

i can't tell for sure if they had the DHP or not - it seems like not?
They had DHP. Launch control and 19s will shave more time off what the got
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      07-03-2013, 07:16 AM   #4
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I'm not sure they had DHP. He says that the car had the "adaptive dampers" that are part of the M Sport package. The sport suspensions are part of M Sport but are not adaptive. So we don't know for sure.

EDIT: On second reading it looks like they had adaptive dampers but not the sport springs because of x-drive. One more reason not to get x-drive on the F30.

Last edited by Bimmerfestool; 07-03-2013 at 07:21 AM.
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      07-03-2013, 07:19 AM   #5
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Xdrive omits the sport suspension, so it would either me the standard Xdrive suspension or the Active. MSport is not an option for XDrive. I would venture it is adaptive, possibly not VSS.

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Originally Posted by Bimmerfestool View Post
I'm not sure they had DHP. He says that the car had the "adaptive dampers" that are part of the M Sport package. The M Sport suspensions are part of M Sport but are not adaptive. So we don't know for sure.
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      07-03-2013, 07:31 AM   #6
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They just messed up the package. Adaptive dampers are part of DHP not msport package.

To give the performance of the xdrive some more depth, check out the table MT prepared in this test

http://wot.motortrend.com/how-fast-is-the-2013-range-rover-supercharged-377183.html#axzz2XzAwVZTR
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      07-03-2013, 08:38 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
To give the performance of the xdrive some more depth, check out the table MT prepared in this test

http://wot.motortrend.com/how-fast-i...#axzz2XzAwVZTR


What is the relevance of this table? Yes a $115,000 510hp turd beats a 335i to 60... Ok?

Last edited by Bimmerfestool; 07-03-2013 at 08:45 AM.
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      07-03-2013, 08:47 AM   #8
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Lighten up, there is some information on multiple cars and their 0-100 times.

Kevin


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Originally Posted by Bimmerfestool View Post


What is the relevance of this table? Yes a $115,000 510hp turd beats a 335i to 60... Ok?
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      07-03-2013, 08:49 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmerfestool
Quote:
Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
To give the performance of the xdrive some more depth, check out the table MT prepared in this test

http://wot.motortrend.com/how-fast-i...#axzz2XzAwVZTR


What is the relevance of this table? Yes a 510hp car beats a 300hp car... Ok?
I hate being myopic. If you can make a list feel free but for now this is the list I could come up with. I would rather look at a wider spectrum than just compare to the M3 as MT did.
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      07-03-2013, 08:53 AM   #10
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The subtitle to the article is accurate, "Fast Runner With Slightly Clumsy Footwork." Perhaps this will put to rest the claims xDrive improves handling.

Note the test car included the M Performance Power kit. (Edit: It is noted in the thread title. Sorry.))

I have difficulty imagining the car has traction issues upon launching where launch control would make a difference. The article does not suggest traction is an issue.

How would 19 inch wheels improve traction? Drag cars do not run large wheels (traction is generally increased with smaller wheels and the resultant increased sidewall flex). Larger wheels additionally decrease handling (greater unsprung weight, less optimal footprint.)
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      07-03-2013, 08:54 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
I hate being myopic. If you can make a list feel free but for now this is the list I could come up with. I would rather look at a wider spectrum than just compare to the M3 as MT did.
Nice list.
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      07-03-2013, 09:00 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk
The subtitle to the article is accurate, "Fast Runner With Slightly Clumsy Footwork." Perhaps this will put to rest the claims xDrive improves handling.

Note the test car included the M Performance Power kit.

I have difficulty imagining the car has traction issues upon launching where launch control would make a difference. The article does not suggest traction is an issue.

How would 19 inch wheels improve traction? Drag cars do not run large wheels (traction is generally increased with smaller wheels and the resultant increased sidewall flex). Larger wheels additionally decrease handling (greater unsprung weight, less optimal footprint.)
I think Lago implied the test car would be better with a staggered set up. Until a test is done we will never know.

No one said xdrive improves handling, however it improves traction which helps in clawing out of corners, as evidenced by the figure 8 times. This has been a consistent observation they have made when comparing awd and rwd, ATS and IS350
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      07-03-2013, 09:01 AM   #13
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NOt much slip with XDrive, 19s are heavier. In a straight line I doubt there would be a huge difference to be staggered. As for the drag reference, have you seen the rear tires on a drag car?

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      07-03-2013, 09:03 AM   #14
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If you go by what BMW states then XDrive does impove handling by distributing power to wheels based on speed and trajectory.

Kevin


Quote:
Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
I think Lago implied the test car would be better with a staggered set up. Until a test is done we will never know.

No one said xdrive improves handling, however it improves traction which helps in cleaning out if corners, as evidenced by the figure 8 times.
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      07-03-2013, 09:14 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevRyd
If you go by what BMW states then XDrive does impove handling by distributing power to wheels based on speed and trajectory.

Kevin


Quote:
Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
I think Lago implied the test car would be better with a staggered set up. Until a test is done we will never know.

No one said xdrive improves handling, however it improves traction which helps in cleaning out if corners, as evidenced by the figure 8 times.
I think xdrive has earned it's due respect. It's not just dead weight, the extra ride height is what's holding the xdrive back and hence the clumsy remarks by MT. However note that this happens at the limit. Very few of us will see those limits.
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      07-03-2013, 09:22 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
I think Lago implied the test car would be better with a staggered set up.
Actually, no. The statement is only they noted "a slight oddity" in that the tires were not staggered as usually comes from the factory.

Quote:
No one said xdrive improves handling,
Not yet in this thread, but it has been a consistent claim in every thread discussing xDrive v. RWD. It simply is not true. (After writing this, I note it has already begun.) <sigh>

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevRyd View Post
N19s are heavier.
Yes, which is bad for any type of performance, cornering or acceleration. This additional unsprung weight must be hauled around and rotated, both which heavier wheels hinder.

Quote:
have you seen the rear tires on a drag car?
Of course, on both street cars and dedicated drag cars. The wheels are smaller proportionally to the tire diameter so that there is increased sidewall flex. This increases traction. A low aspect ratio and stiff sidewall decreases traction.
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      07-03-2013, 09:32 AM   #17
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Drag car tires are huge both in the side-wall and in their width.

Xdrive handling, read what I wrote "According to BMW"

Heavier wheels do load the suspension, but also distribute weight to the corners which lowers the overall center of gravity.

Kevin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk View Post
Actually, no. The statement is only they noted "a slight oddity" in that the tires were not staggered as usually comes from the factory.


Not yet in this thread, but it has been a consistent claim in every thread discussing xDrive v. RWD. It simply is not true. (After writing this, I note it has already begun.) <sigh>


Yes, which is bad for any type of performance, cornering or acceleration. This additional unsprung weight must be hauled around and rotated, both which heavier wheels hinder.


Of course, on both street cars and dedicated drag cars. The wheels are smaller proportionally to the tire diameter so that there is increased sidewall flex. This increases traction. A low aspect ratio and stiff sidewall decreases traction.
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      07-03-2013, 09:40 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
I think xdrive has earned it's due respect. It's not just dead weight . . .
Absolutely. xDrive increases traction on slippery surfaces, allowing for more controlled acceleration in bad conditions. Thus, many like it for snowy conditions, especially going up hill.

Unfortunately, it does not improve cornering or handling. xDrive is fairly unsophisticated as an AWD system and does not include torque vectoring or any other technology to potentially assist in cornering. Instead, it merely transfers power away from a slipping wheel. That is, it reacts only to a loss of traction. Nothing good happens until there is actually a loss of traction.

On dry pavement and any time traction loss is not occurring this hinders cornering. Any amount of power transferred to the front wheels decreases the traction available for cornering. This is the major reason front wheel drive cars understeer. One can feel this understeer on every corner.

xDrive's default placing drive power to the front results in a heavier feeling front end in normal driving and front wheel slip at the limits. This is always apparent, regardless of driving style or speed, and is simply a matter of physics. This is exacerbated by the extra weight up front (although this is relatively minimal).

xDrive is wonderful for snowy conditions, very loose driving surfaces, etc. It does not improve handling. Of course, if you do not notice the detrimental aspects of xDrive, or the improved ability to accelerate in slippery conditions is a high priority, xDrive is a great choice. As with many things, there are tradeoffs.

Back to the point of OP's post, xDrive increases traction in a straight line and the car is fairly quick with the Power kit.
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      07-03-2013, 09:50 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevRyd View Post
Drag car tires are huge both in the side-wall and in their width.
Yes, neither of which is accomplished by 19 inch wheels. The side wall is decreased with 19 inch wheels, decreasing traction. Tires on 19 inch wheels are no wider.

Quote:
Heavier wheels do load the suspension, but also distribute weight to the corners which lowers the overall center of gravity.
No. Heavier wheels do not "load the suspension," they accomplish the opposite; they add unsprung weight; they are below the suspension.

This is the absolutely worst place for increased weight. The detrimental effects of increased unsprung weight greatly exceeds the problems of adding weight anywhere else in the car. Additionally, heavier wheels add to rotational weight. Heavier wheels are the worst thing one can do for performance.

Similarly, adding weight to a car to lower the center of gravity is a fool's errand; the increased weight greatly offsets any benefit. Again, basic physics.
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      07-03-2013, 09:55 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk
Quote:
Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
I think xdrive has earned it's due respect. It's not just dead weight . . .
Absolutely. xDrive increases traction on slippery surfaces, allowing for more controlled acceleration in bad conditions. Thus, many like it for snowy conditions, especially going up hill.

Unfortunately, it does not improve cornering or handling. xDrive is fairly unsophisticated as an AWD system and does not include torque vectoring or any other technology to potentially assist in cornering. Instead, it merely transfers power away from a slipping wheel. That is, it reacts only to a loss of traction. Nothing good happens until there is actually a loss of traction.

On dry pavement and any time traction loss is not occurring this hinders cornering. Any amount of power transferred to the front wheels decreases the traction available for cornering. This is the major reason front wheel drive cars understeer. One can feel this understeer on every corner.

xDrive's default placing drive power to the front results in a heavier feeling front end in normal driving and front wheel slip at the limits. This is always apparent, regardless of driving style or speed, and is simply a matter of physics. This is exacerbated by the extra weight up front (although this is relatively minimal).

xDrive is wonderful for snowy conditions, very loose driving surfaces, etc. It does not improve handling. Of course, if you do not notice the detrimental aspects of xDrive, or the improved ability to accelerate in slippery conditions is a high priority, xDrive is a great choice. As with many things, there are tradeoffs.

Back to the point of OP's post, xDrive increases traction in a straight line and the car is fairly quick with the Power kit.
Elk

Have you read the article posted? I understand you have some knowledge iro of how theoretically xdrive should behave. However the article here and the ones on the IS350 and Cadillac ATS suggest your theories may now be outdated. Read the articles if you care. You are the only one who is talking about handling, I am talking about the numbers and sadly they are not in your favor.
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      07-03-2013, 09:59 AM   #21
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I foresee a comparison coming up for the is350 awd vs ATS awd vs 335i xdrive. The 335i will come third for the same reasons as the 335i rwd
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      07-03-2013, 10:13 AM   #22
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I happen to own and have driven on the track with both of the cars mentioned in the article('11 E90 M3 6MT / '13 335i xDrive DHP Sport 8AT). I agree totally with what was laid out. There is no denying that the 335i xDrive has impressive straight line performance. I seriously doubt I could ever hit the 4.4 0-60 rowing my own gears in our M3. So from a stop light king perspective I actually think the 335i xDrive is the winner. (Not that it matters)

However, get into anything with curves and the 335i xDrive feels like a wallowing pig compared to the E9x M3. A combination of the EPS, softer suspension tuning, extra weight from xDrive and increased ride height don't bode well for sporty driving. I think it would have been better if they tested a RWD 335i comparably equipped. Anyone who thinks xDrive gives you any sort of handling advantage on dry roads is delusional.
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