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      08-28-2013, 03:53 PM   #1
SCOTT26
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Lightbulb BMW Z5, Z1 and Z3

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
Scott26 thanks for the info.

For what it is worth, I wanted to say that as a E89 Z4 35i owner I really wish there was an all out M version with the V8, LSD, weight reduction, and suspension tuning that is about agility at all cost. There isn't a good 2 seater for me to "ladder up" to within BMW, and I'll likely have to go outside the brand for my next car.

Also, I think my wife's F30 335 is spot on for a car that is 95% commuting and 5% canyons / performance driving. The in cabin tech is great, and the option 704 suspension is nice for a street car. I'm good with compliance as long as the wheel control is still there.

Thanks for sharing your info with the community.
Many within the company wishes for an M Z4 but unfortunately the market is small. It is possible to do a limited model like the 1 Series M Coupe but there is no decision to do this.

There was the plan to absorb the Z4 iS into the M Performance line but this fell through in the final hour.

We will shortly be presenting our collaboration with Toyota for a new interpretation of a new highly focused sports car first as a concept. The production car will be called the Z5 which allows us to align a new UKL (FWD) based Z1 with equivalent MINI sports car along with a mid sized Z3 (the name is coming back) which again could be aligned with Toyota. Although for some markets Toyota might use Lexus branding.

The Z5 Roadster will feature exterior and interior design from BMW, as well as BMW engines. Toyota will supply optional hybrid technology and BMW will supply CFRP in its construction. A coupe will follow.

The new "Z" design is influenced by the Vision ConnectedDrive Concept Car.

* Image below used for illustration purpose.

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      08-28-2013, 04:22 PM   #2
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Thanks Scott, is there a production timeline for the Z5 yet?
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      08-29-2013, 01:05 AM   #3
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WOW. great info thanks.

Your earlier post suggested the need to do a sports car "right" and it is now followed up with a post about "highly focused" fixed roof coupe with CFRP, BMW styling and engines. This is really exciting!

If I may suggest, please have the option for a non adaptive "Track focused" suspension option. I personally find that the adaptive dampers on my Z4 do not have enough compliance so I can not use curbing on corner exit and if it is a bumpy corner exit I can not get the power down quickly. Also, in transitions in rapid succession, such as a slalom exercise, it seems like the suspension starts to compress differently at the end. Perhaps all the weight moving around quickly plus the driver scrambling to recover is a hard math problem for the computers? I think a traditional "track focused" suspension would be more predictable.

Lastly, it would be great to have extra cooling for the car (even if it is extra cost package, like M Sport brakes, that is fine) because the Z435 right now can not withstand a standard 25 minutes performance driving school session. It will get into power reduction mode and then limp mode easily.

Jamesons Viggen if Z4M were an $80k car that delivers performance that is on par with other similarly priced cars like Z06 and GTR I don't see any reason why people wouldn't pay for Z4M. The problem comes when you have a $75k 35is that can not complete with $45k C6 Z51 or even $50k 1M.
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      08-29-2013, 08:44 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
Jamesons Viggen if Z4M were an $80k car that delivers performance that is on par with other similarly priced cars like Z06 and GTR I don't see any reason why people wouldn't pay for Z4M. The problem comes when you have a $75k 35is that can not complete with $45k C6 Z51 or even $50k 1M.
It's not going to compete with them when it's saddled with a retractable hardtop and weighting 3500-3600lbs. The E89 has been less of a focused sports car, and more of a GT. A Z4M can be $80k, but it needs to be rewound to the Z3M/Z4M in terms of mission.
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      08-29-2013, 08:50 AM   #5
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Agreed, the E89 is beautiful, but too big and heavy.

When I bought my E36/8, it was small and there was no Cayman yet. The E85/86 was still a less polished and cheaper competitor than the Boxster/Cayman. Now the E89 has sort of lost the plot.

Hopefully they get back on track, Scott's info sounds promising.
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      08-29-2013, 03:15 PM   #6
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Nice, in line with the 4's being a bit larger then 3's.
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      08-29-2013, 03:22 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread
Agreed, the E89 is beautiful, but too big and heavy.

When I bought my E36/8, it was small and there was no Cayman yet. The E85/86 was still a less polished and cheaper competitor than the Boxster/Cayman. Now the E89 has sort of lost the plot.

Hopefully they get back on track, Scott's info sounds promising.
i park my e86 next to guy at work with 996 911, plus there is an older cayman too. i like my e86 best. then i see an e89 and its like so over the top that i think indeed they lost the plot..
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      08-29-2013, 03:22 PM   #8
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i thought 1,3,5 were aligned for 4 doors while 2,4,5 were aligned for 2 doors.. why wouldn't it be Z2, Z4, Z6? because there are already convertible counterparts?

i'd love to see a boosted Z2 but in proper wheel drive.
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      08-29-2013, 03:36 PM   #9
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Oh, that would be sweet! I'd get that in a heartbeat. My old Z3MC is getting old, needs a buddy!
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      08-29-2013, 03:49 PM   #10
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Did I read front wheel drive?
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      08-29-2013, 03:49 PM   #11
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Cool for sure, but this is obviously a niche market item. I know I wont have a chance in hell of fitting in LOL.
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      08-29-2013, 04:00 PM   #12
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If ///M builds the Z5 Coupe as nicknaz has requested (track focused), I would be first in line to order.
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      08-29-2013, 04:04 PM   #13
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Very nice... The Z4 is THE BEST looking roadster on the market. Previous a d gen and current model. The coupe from the previous gen will go down as a classic, mark my words. BMW just knows how to do 2 door and coupe profiles so well IMO.
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      08-29-2013, 04:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
It's not going to compete with them when it's saddled with a retractable hardtop and weighting 3500-3600lbs. The E89 has been less of a focused sports car, and more of a GT. A Z4M can be $80k, but it needs to be rewound to the Z3M/Z4M in terms of mission.
Agreed the current E89 is heavier than I would like it to be and I've already posted my wish list of things to change.

Curious if any other posters have tracked E89. I am pretty clear that the E89 is a street car / cruiser but it is not horrible to track (other than the insufficient engine cooling!!) and with similar tires it would be interesting to see how much pace (if any) E89 would give up compared to E85/6 M

All that said, 3500lb and retractable roof are not insurmountable. Jag F type is an interesting example of a heavy roadster with big power and the correct equipment that is doing well for itself with the journalists

EDIT: I thought of another change request.. the launch control. Please have it so that it cuts timing (and makes cool noises) to limit wheel spin and have the adjustable rpm setting so that it is not a 4000rpm clutch dump with a lot of wheel spin. On the stock tires, I am able to cut a better (but still poor) 60ft with the gearbox in D mode and car in sport+ rather than using the launch control

Last edited by nicknaz; 08-29-2013 at 04:37 PM.
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      08-29-2013, 04:08 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diver
Did I read front wheel drive?
Yeah I saw that too...that's going in the opposite direction IMO.
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      08-29-2013, 04:09 PM   #16
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I wanted them to be called Z2, Z4, Z6, Z8, or even numbers, but marketing department triumphs all. They have to use Z1 because that car is going to be FWD and they don't want Z1, Z4, Z6, odd and even numbers.

"Z" already means 2 seater coupe/roadster so I'm ok with it. Unless the Toyota Z5 is 2+2...
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      08-29-2013, 04:10 PM   #17
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Scott, you said coupe will follow. But Z5 roadster will still have hardtop roof? or will we see soft top roof? or is that still under consideration?
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      08-29-2013, 04:11 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Did I read front wheel drive?
You did.

This will probably rival the new Honda Civic SI platforms or other high revving FWD platforms.

Not to be confused or anywhere near the F82 M or E9X M platforms in terms of performance.
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      08-29-2013, 04:17 PM   #19
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I think they mean only the Z1 will be FWD. LOL, so BMW is developing the design, engine, and chassis... and Toyota supplies a crappy hybrid powertrain. Why is BMW even bothering working with this company when they are doing all the work.
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      08-29-2013, 04:24 PM   #20
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Great to hear that this is still on the roadmap; even better with CFRP in the mix.

Another older post on the topic:

http://f20.1addicts.com/forums/showp...5&postcount=40

Quote:
Originally Posted by wdeerfield View Post
i thought 1,3,5 were aligned for 4 doors while 2,4,5 were aligned for 2 doors.. why wouldn't it be Z2, Z4, Z6? because there are already convertible counterparts?

i'd love to see a boosted Z2 but in proper wheel drive.
In the past SCOTT has said that what they might do for the Z cars is switch the roadsters to odd numbers while the coupes will be even numbered. I am not sure if that is still the plan, but if the roadsters are indeed going to be odd numbered as he mentions above, then it could be the that the coupe versions of them (which he also mentions are in the works) will get even numbers.
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      08-29-2013, 04:34 PM   #21
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need more info! this is very cool
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      08-29-2013, 04:41 PM   #22
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This is disappointing news, I was hoping for a revival of the z3/z4 m ideologies. They're among my favorite cars from M.
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