F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > 2012-2019 BMW 3 and 4-Series Forums > General F30 Sedan / F32 Coupe / F36 Gran Coupe Forum > sport display: how does it work?
RW Carbon
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-04-2013, 03:07 AM   #1
Sephanite
Lieutenant
 
Drives: BMW Z4
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Melbourne

Posts: 537
iTrader: (0)

sport display: how does it work?

BIMMERPOST
     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com
Where is the sport display getting its power readings from?
Sephanite is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-04-2013, 03:40 AM   #2
NISFAN
Brigadier General
 
NISFAN's Avatar
 
Drives: The best kind of F30 :)
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Bedford UK

Posts: 3,510
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephanite View Post
Where is the sport display getting its power readings from?
Works it out from things like boost pressure/Air flow sensor/injector duty, revs, etc.

And no it is not very accurate.
__________________
NISFAN is offline   England
0
Reply With Quote
      09-04-2013, 08:30 AM   #3
Sephanite
Lieutenant
 
Drives: BMW Z4
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Melbourne

Posts: 537
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NISFAN View Post
Works it out from things like boost pressure/Air flow sensor/injector duty, revs, etc.

And no it is not very accurate.
so a tune connected to it wont vary the figure?
Sephanite is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-04-2013, 08:34 AM   #4
Meeeotch
Second Lieutenant
 
Meeeotch's Avatar
 
Drives: '14 F30 335i M-Sport
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Southern California

Posts: 262
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Interesting.
__________________
F30 335i M-Sport Estoril Blue / Coral Red / manual

E92 335i M-Sport Apline White / Coral Red / manual
Meeeotch is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-04-2013, 09:03 AM   #5
tdizzle
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 2012 335i Sport
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Memphis

Posts: 1,688
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephanite View Post
so a tune connected to it wont vary the figure?
Not unless it's the PPK.
tdizzle is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-04-2013, 03:27 PM   #6
Elk
Major
 
Drives: 2012 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: *

Posts: 1,275
iTrader: (0)

The display is merely pre-programmed eye-candy. It is not measuring anything.
Elk is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-04-2013, 05:34 PM   #7
rallybull
Captain
 
rallybull's Avatar
 
Drives: F30 335i w/PPK
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: USA

Posts: 775
iTrader: (0)

does it really need to measure the output in order to be accurate? Hasn't engineering reached the point where you can calculate something like power output based on a set of given input parameters?
rallybull is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-04-2013, 05:46 PM   #8
dinonz
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 335i Sport Black on Black
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Austin

Posts: 422
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rallybull View Post
does it really need to measure the output in order to be accurate? Hasn't engineering reached the point where you can calculate something like power output based on a set of given input parameters?
You can predict relatively well I think to a degree. From memory, aircraft engines use about 0.45 lb/hp/hr so basically you can work out the power produced based on fuel rate. But it's still ballpark, because atmospheric conditions will play a part.
dinonz is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-04-2013, 05:46 PM   #9
300hp
Colonel
 
Drives: X5 & 335xi
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: USA

Posts: 2,622
iTrader: (0)

Here is my take on this. I have heard 2 PPK installs. When I first bought the car I had no PPK. My gauges showed 320/320. At no time did those sport displays show me exceeding 300/300. Never.

I then had my PPK installed in April and my gauges showed 320/400. At that stage my hp would max out and my tq never exceeded 332.

Now I just got my PPK reinstalled today with the new DME and my gauges show 400/400. My hp peaked at 335 today, exactly 335, not even 340, which would have been cool.

I think these displays are pre programmed but they use some smart algorithms to determine what to spit out. If you install your own tune outside of the BMW ecosystem the gauges will not work because its outside the parameters set in those algorithms.

I think within the defined parameters from BMW the displays show you information that is reasonably accurate. Notice I did not say accurate, but accurate within reason
__________________
EBII 2014 335i xDrive
335HP, Sport AT, 19" Wheels, MPE, Prem, Tech, Cold, HK, Driver Assist & DH pkgs

Deep Sea Blue Metallic 2013 X5 35d Sport
Prem, Convenience, Cold and Premium Sound packages
300hp is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-04-2013, 08:58 PM   #10
Sephanite
Lieutenant
 
Drives: BMW Z4
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Melbourne

Posts: 537
iTrader: (0)

Great! Thanks for the info
Sephanite is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-05-2013, 02:44 AM   #11
BL 5
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2014 335xi - 2008 550i
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: WA

Posts: 171
iTrader: (0)

[quote=300hp;14614027]Now I just got my PPK reinstalled today with the new DME and my gauges show 400/400. My hp peaked at 335 today, exactly 335, not even 340, which would have been cool./QUOTE]

Good news! Couple questions....

Was there a problem with your original MPPK?
Did you feel any more power with updated MPPK?
Was there a charge for this?
BL 5 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-05-2013, 06:25 AM   #12
300hp
Colonel
 
Drives: X5 & 335xi
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: USA

Posts: 2,622
iTrader: (0)

[quote=BL 5]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
Now I just got my PPK reinstalled today with the new DME and my gauges show 400/400. My hp peaked at 335 today, exactly 335, not even 340, which would have been cool./QUOTE]

Good news! Couple questions....

Was there a problem with your original MPPK?
Did you feel any more power with updated MPPK?
Was there a charge for this?
Yes there was a problem with my car and one of the ways to fix it was replacing the DME. The DMEs were retooled recently and I just lucked out by getting one of the these retooled ones. Everything was done under warranty. See thread below

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=879819

I still need more sit time before I can say this new set up is faster than the old. 15hp over 320 of the same may be tough to pick up from a butt dyno.
__________________
EBII 2014 335i xDrive
335HP, Sport AT, 19" Wheels, MPE, Prem, Tech, Cold, HK, Driver Assist & DH pkgs

Deep Sea Blue Metallic 2013 X5 35d Sport
Prem, Convenience, Cold and Premium Sound packages
300hp is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-05-2013, 08:46 AM   #13
Elk
Major
 
Drives: 2012 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: *

Posts: 1,275
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
I think these displays are pre programmed but they use some smart algorithms to determine what to spit out. If you install your own tune outside of the BMW ecosystem the gauges will not work because its outside the parameters set in those algorithms.
This is a fair assumption, as is your thought the gauges are a fair approximation of what is going on.
Elk is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2013, 06:28 AM   #14
BL 5
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2014 335xi - 2008 550i
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: WA

Posts: 171
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
I still need more sit time before I can say this new set up is faster than the old. 15hp over 320 of the same may be tough to pick up from a butt dyno.
What you don't have that 100 miles in yet so you can conclusively tell is you've got more 'punch'??

Ha ha, just kidding.

The dyno won't lie, looking forward to seeing those results.
BL 5 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2013, 02:22 PM   #15
300hp
Colonel
 
Drives: X5 & 335xi
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: USA

Posts: 2,622
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BL 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
I still need more sit time before I can say this new set up is faster than the old. 15hp over 320 of the same may be tough to pick up from a butt dyno.
What you don't have that 100 miles in yet so you can conclusively tell is you've got more 'punch'??

Ha ha, just kidding.

The dyno won't lie, looking forward to seeing those results.
Sadly today I did not go over 320hp, no matter what I tried
__________________
EBII 2014 335i xDrive
335HP, Sport AT, 19" Wheels, MPE, Prem, Tech, Cold, HK, Driver Assist & DH pkgs

Deep Sea Blue Metallic 2013 X5 35d Sport
Prem, Convenience, Cold and Premium Sound packages
300hp is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2013, 07:43 PM   #16
300hp
Colonel
 
Drives: X5 & 335xi
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: USA

Posts: 2,622
iTrader: (0)

After numerous tests today I can confirm I do not have the new PPK. Full throttle, 6800rpm yielded 320hp all the time. Only once did the hp go to 335hp. Only twice has it gone to 335hp since I got the car on Wednesday.

It's good to know on some random occasion I can get 335hp (assuming its not a software error), but it's a leap of faith for me to think this is the new PPK. 320hp is all I have under my control, the extra 15 comes and goes as it pleases.
__________________
EBII 2014 335i xDrive
335HP, Sport AT, 19" Wheels, MPE, Prem, Tech, Cold, HK, Driver Assist & DH pkgs

Deep Sea Blue Metallic 2013 X5 35d Sport
Prem, Convenience, Cold and Premium Sound packages
300hp is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-07-2013, 09:28 PM   #17
Elk
Major
 
Drives: 2012 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: *

Posts: 1,275
iTrader: (0)

Please do not base your conclusion on the silly sport display. It is not measuring anything, it is a pre-programmed guestimation.

If you really want to know what the car does, put it on a solid, real dyno and check.
Elk is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2013, 07:07 AM   #18
300hp
Colonel
 
Drives: X5 & 335xi
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: USA

Posts: 2,622
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk
Please do not base your conclusion on the silly sport display. It is not measuring anything, it is a pre-programmed guestimation.

If you really want to know what the car does, put it on a solid, real dyno and check.
Elk you are not a fan of the sport displays, lol.

However nothing beats dyno results and since we are still waiting the launch control videos, I expect it will be a long wait for the dyno results.
__________________
EBII 2014 335i xDrive
335HP, Sport AT, 19" Wheels, MPE, Prem, Tech, Cold, HK, Driver Assist & DH pkgs

Deep Sea Blue Metallic 2013 X5 35d Sport
Prem, Convenience, Cold and Premium Sound packages
300hp is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2013, 08:23 AM   #19
Elk
Major
 
Drives: 2012 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: *

Posts: 1,275
iTrader: (0)



The display is cute, but is not real. I admit being unimpressed with something that pretends to be an objective measurement, but is not.
Elk is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2013, 08:59 AM   #20
300hp
Colonel
 
Drives: X5 & 335xi
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: USA

Posts: 2,622
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk


The display is cute, but is not real. I admit being unimpressed with something that pretends to be an objective measurement, but is not.
I just want to try one more thing before I concede defeat on this. If we know what the hp/tq graphs are like and we have input on throttle position, driver mode setting shouldn't it be fairly easy to deduce how much tq and hp the engine is making at any given time? I think the sport graphs are just as good at being indicative as the mpg graphs. What are your thought on this Elk

I am hoping the rest of the physics gurus, like drob can also chime in. Maybe he is busy face palming himself on the s4 vs 335i thread.
__________________
EBII 2014 335i xDrive
335HP, Sport AT, 19" Wheels, MPE, Prem, Tech, Cold, HK, Driver Assist & DH pkgs

Deep Sea Blue Metallic 2013 X5 35d Sport
Prem, Convenience, Cold and Premium Sound packages
300hp is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2013, 09:11 AM   #21
Elk
Major
 
Drives: 2012 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: *

Posts: 1,275
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
I think the sport graphs are just as good at being indicative as the mpg graphs.
MPG is easy to calculate as there are only two values, both easily obtained as actual measurements.

Calculating horsepower and torque is going to be, at best, an estimate based on a large number of variables none of which are measurements of power. For example, throttle position is only that - it only indirectly indicates the power which may be produced.

Then there is the variability of mass produced engines. Having seen many "identical" cars on the same dyno produce significantly different results (but consistent with the same car), I know there is no generic engine parameter we can measure to accurately predict a given engine's power.

The sport displays can reasonable be expected to read within plus or minus 10%, but I am afraid this is about as good as they can get.
Elk is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-08-2013, 09:16 AM   #22
300hp
Colonel
 
Drives: X5 & 335xi
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: USA

Posts: 2,622
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk
Quote:
Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
I think the sport graphs are just as good at being indicative as the mpg graphs.
MPG is easy to calculate as there are only two values, both easily obtained as actual measurements.

Calculating horsepower and torque is going to be, at best, an estimate based on a large number of variables none of which are measurements of power. For example, throttle position is only that - it only indirectly indicates the power which may be produced.

Then there is the variability of mass produced engines. Having seen many "identical" cars on the same dyno produce significantly different results (but consistent with the same car), I know there is no generic engine parameter we can measure to accurately predict a given engine's power.

The sport displays can reasonable be expected to read within plus or minus 10%, but I am afraid this is about as good as they can get.
Absolutely agree

The sport displays can only be indicative but cannot be said to be accurate due to the variables you indicated.
__________________
EBII 2014 335i xDrive
335HP, Sport AT, 19" Wheels, MPE, Prem, Tech, Cold, HK, Driver Assist & DH pkgs

Deep Sea Blue Metallic 2013 X5 35d Sport
Prem, Convenience, Cold and Premium Sound packages
300hp is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:33 AM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST