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      09-18-2013, 11:45 AM   #1
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Track times, 328i, Mustang V6 Subaru BRZ

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This is a tale of tires but tires are so boring, yawn!!!

So Randy took out these cars to the streets of willow and they changed tires from stock to most aggressive tire. Here are the results:

Mustang V6 on all seasons 1:33.1
328i on stock 18 summers 1:33.1

Most aggressive tire
Mustang V6 1:30
328i 1:30.7 (there was a typo here before, I have corrected it)
Subaru 1:31.1

I have some thoughts on this as this new information relates to VIR by Car and Driver

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Last edited by 300hp; 09-18-2013 at 12:01 PM. Reason: Typo
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      09-18-2013, 11:53 AM   #2
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Related topic if anyone wants to pick it up:

At VIR C&D used the stock run flats on the 335i and they recorded a time of 3:13.2. The Mustang V6 ran a 3:12.5. I can almost bet the Mustang V6 was wearing some good rubber at VIR. Here we see the 328i knock off 3 seconds from its time just by switching tires. It seems to me the F30's performance is underrated in every test we have seen given this handicap by the run flat tires.

Are S4s on run flats?

Streets of Willow times for reference
http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/willow...of_willow.html

Looks like Randy owns Street of Willow too!

Last edited by 300hp; 09-18-2013 at 12:38 PM.
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      09-18-2013, 12:36 PM   #3
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When testing, I believe in isolating the variables. The fact that the wheels were changed with the tire changes can skew the results due to decreases/increases in unsprung weight.
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      09-18-2013, 12:51 PM   #4
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It would've been most interesting to see them use the exact same tires for their upgrades to compare apples to apples. It's a bit more of a PR stunt when you have different manufacturers and different compounds against each other.

Nevertheless, a good indication of the benefits you'd see out of stickier rubber. Would've been fun to see a full R-comp that was shaved and properly warmed up for good measure.
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      09-18-2013, 12:53 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberdemon View Post
It would've been most interesting to see them use the exact same tires for their upgrades to compare apples to apples. It's a bit more of a PR stunt when you have different manufacturers and different compounds against each other.

Nevertheless, a good indication of the benefits you'd see out of stickier rubber. Would've been fun to see a full R-comp that was shaved and properly warmed up for good measure.
That too.

Was hoping to see the Michelin PSS on the 328.
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      09-18-2013, 12:56 PM   #6
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It would've been most interesting to see them use the exact same tires for their upgrades to compare apples to apples. It's a bit more of a PR stunt when you have different manufacturers and different compounds against each other.
You're missing the point. They aren't comparing the cars.
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      09-18-2013, 01:01 PM   #7
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I think they were aiming for the best time and used the best tires on hand to achieve this. You cant ask for much given you have a guy who literally owns Streets of Willow and Mazda Laguna Seca doing the driving. The 328i is not going to lap faster than the Mustang V6 in the best case scenario for both cars. A 1:30.7 time is not bad though. The Stang V6 has a record of 1:29.09 at SOW

http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/willow...of_willow.html
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      09-18-2013, 01:01 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
Are S4s on run flats?
No, although they tend to come with the pretty crappy conti tires. Michelin PSS are widely regarded as the best bang/buck, which is why I'm gonna wrap them onto my new wheels (which hopefully get here in the next week or so ).
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      09-18-2013, 01:05 PM   #9
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No, although they tend to come with the pretty crappy conti tires. Michelin PSS are widely regarded as the best bang/buck, which is why I'm gonna wrap them onto my new wheels (which hopefully get here in the next week or so ).
Ok, thanks so that makes my unsaid point dead on arrival, lol.

Sorry Drob, just to be clear, my unsaid point would have been something like

....if S4 has good stock tires and 335i has run flats then if 335i wore better tires then it will beat the S4 finally....

that's the one that dead on arrival.
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Last edited by 300hp; 09-18-2013 at 01:27 PM. Reason: Clarification
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      09-18-2013, 01:12 PM   #10
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it's okay guys, only the person who owns F30 will know the truth!

and those driving a no-line f30 complain abt the performance? i'd say to them -- GET A M-PACKAGE.
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      09-18-2013, 01:19 PM   #11
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I lost some respect for Randy with the comment about "the runflats must be a better tire". You don't think the chassis and suspension could be why it had more grip or maybe the fact that the mustang doesn't have IRS? Silly racecar drivers. lol
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      09-18-2013, 01:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
Ok, thanks so that makes my unsaid point dead on arrival, lol.

Sorry Drob, just to be clear, my unsaid point would have been something like

....if S4 has good stock tires and 335i has run flats then if 335i wore better tires then it will beat the S4 finally....

that's the one that dead on arrival.
The tires that S4 comes with are much better than the run flats on the BMW F30 from a performance/NVH perspective. But maybe this isn't the only issue, cause the BMW doesn't need to carry a spare and you don't need to change tires when you get a flat, it's all relative
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      09-18-2013, 01:32 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drob23
Quote:
Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
Ok, thanks so that makes my unsaid point dead on arrival, lol.

Sorry Drob, just to be clear, my unsaid point would have been something like

....if S4 has good stock tires and 335i has run flats then if 335i wore better tires then it will beat the S4 finally....

that's the one that dead on arrival.
The tires that S4 comes with are much better than the run flats on the BMW F30 from a performance/NVH perspective. But maybe this isn't the only issue, cause the BMW doesn't need to carry a spare and you don't need to change tires when you get a flat, it's all relative
One day I will finally be able to say it

What does you car run in the 1/4 now. Probably low 12s right
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      09-18-2013, 01:36 PM   #14
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Quote:
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I lost some respect for Randy with the comment about "the runflats must be a better tire". You don't think the chassis and suspension could be why it had more grip or maybe the fact that the mustang doesn't have IRS? Silly racecar drivers. lol
Why wouldn't he be correct? The cars were dead even with the tires that came with the car, but with better tires the mustang's best was better than the BMWs.

If the only change was the tire and the mustang had more improvement with the swap, then yes the tires on the BMW were better to start with.

Seems logical.

That and it's fun to see a 'muscle car' with a solid rear axle besting other 'sporty cars' costing almost 50% more when they're just supposed to be good in a straight line.

I'm running Mich PSS on my car with lighter and wider wheels and the grip is noticeable. I haven't taken it out to an auto-x yet, but my summer run flats did a pretty good job previously so I'm anxious to see how these perform.

To note, my gas mileage went down noticably with the wider/stickier tires. It looks like about 1.5mpg is where it's settling in at from my stock wheels/tires.
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      09-18-2013, 01:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
One day I will finally be able to say it

What does you car run in the 1/4 now. Probably low 12s right
Absolutely no way, only thing I've done straight line performance wise is an intake and exhaust modification largely for sound Will hopefully do a performance ECU tune/pulley swap once I've finished all these cosmetic upgrades
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      09-18-2013, 01:40 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Why wouldn't he be correct? The cars were dead even with the tires that came with the car, but with better tires the mustang's best was better than the BMWs.

If the only change was the tire and the mustang had more improvement with the swap, then yes the tires on the BMW were better to start with.

Seems logical.

That and it's fun to see a 'muscle car' with a solid rear axle besting sports sedans costing almost 50% more when they're just supposed to be good in a straight line.
Its incorrect hence why the other person corrected him. To me I want to see the same tire on both cars but I do like to see how tires make a big difference.
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      09-18-2013, 01:44 PM   #17
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So did the Mustang V6 have "performance package with brembos", more aggressive axle ratio and 255 square tires or was it the base version with smaller brakes, fuel econ axle ratio?

Pretty brutal for the F30 that a "secretary special" V6 stang that costs much less was able to match it on at the track and a low power low price momentum car was able to hang as well.

Maybe BMW CCA track days are so expensive to keep all of the "crazy" Mustang 5.0 and base Corvette drivers away
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      09-18-2013, 01:45 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by drob23 View Post
Absolutely no way, only thing I've done straight line performance wise is an intake and exhaust modification largely for sound Will hopefully do a performance ECU tune/pulley swap once I've finished all these cosmetic upgrades
We are so different, I would have gone for the jugular, straight line first, everything else follows. Goes to show I am a novice at this.

I am going for MPE next, 5hp if the speculation is true and I am starting to love the exhaust notes
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      09-18-2013, 01:56 PM   #19
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These comparos are always interesting, but I don't get too worked up when the F30 comes up short of our high expectations. Even the M Sport comes spec'ed to be equal parts luxury and sport... which is why even though I haven't even taken delivery of my 335i yet (any friggin' day now... ) I have already gotten PPK/MPE, OE camber knuckles, Apex ARC-8 9" wheels... and an appointment for an LSD install. Once Dinan releases their Shockware tune, I think I'll have the car that BMW "meant" to offer us enthusasts from the start.
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      09-18-2013, 01:59 PM   #20
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Its incorrect hence why the other person corrected him. To me I want to see the same tire on both cars but I do like to see how tires make a big difference.
I guess, I'm no expert and noticed the guy 'correcting' him or proving an explanation. From Randy's point of view the BMW's OEM tire felt the best out of all the OEM tires. That could be considered subjective. But then objectively, looking at the lap time delta, I think the numbers backed his observation up. The Mustang got better with the more aggressive tires than the BMW did. That leads me to believe that the BMW started off with better tires.

The BMW did come with the summer tires while the Mustang rocked the All Seasons, so I'd like to think the BMW tires were better.

Regardless, the whole point was that better tires = better track times and there's no debating that.
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      09-18-2013, 02:00 PM   #21
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We are so different, I would have gone for the jugular, straight line first, everything else follows. Goes to show I am a novice at this.

I am going for MPE next, 5hp if the speculation is true and I am starting to love the exhaust notes
Well, haha, different strokes for different folks. I find the car already fast as hell from the factory, and have used this as an opportunity to "learn" about the car by getting some tools and jack stands. ECU stuff is pretty much plug in, flash and boom! Plus, voiding the powertrain warranty will only be done once I'm confident my DCT won't break to the tune of 10k

I found that paint chips were killing me inside every day, so I did a full front xpel clear bra. Then I wanted to swap out the grill and do a nice high quality tint. Next was suspension pieces to make the car handle flat as a rock and then springs to reduce the wheel gap. New wheels will complete the look wrapped in PSS...plus all the little things like painting brakes, replacing bulbs with leds and getting the right detailing tools. I'm next gonna wrap the amber side reflectors in vinyl wrap, which will require taking the lights apart Suffice it to say that most people I work with and friends think I'm a moron for messing with this beautiful new car (which I probably am haha).

The exhaust was probably the best upgrade I've done pound for pound, but the 3.0T has a much weaker engine note than the N55, but you'll be grinning every day you start her up. It has nothing to do with the performance...if that's what you want, go for some headers/downpipes
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      09-18-2013, 02:02 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdizzle View Post
I guess, I'm no expert and noticed the guy 'correcting' him or proving an explanation. From Randy's point of view the BMW's OEM tire felt the best out of all the OEM tires. That could be considered subjective. But then objectively, looking at the lap time delta, I think the numbers backed his observation up. The Mustang got better with the more aggressive tires than the BMW did. That leads me to believe that the BMW started off with better tires.

The BMW did come with the summer tires while the Mustang rocked the All Seasons, so I'd like to think the BMW tires were better.

Regardless, the whole point was that better tires = better track times and there's no debating that.
The BMW run flat summers should be better than regular all seasons, though it probably depends a lot on the tire/brand. For example, the new Michelin AS3 or whatever is supposed to be an incredible AS tire.

It's pretty well known that BMW has been putting much better RF tires on their newer cars than when they first started this. But this is just info I've read here + there, no lap times to back it up!
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