F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > 2012-2019 BMW 3 and 4-Series Forums > General F30 Sedan / F32 Coupe / F36 Gran Coupe Forum > where are the RWD 328i in New England?
Extreme Power House
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-25-2013, 11:16 PM   #23
ynguldyn
Lieutenant
35
Rep
484
Posts

 
Drives: the other car.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Boston

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by btbossman View Post
Idiots like you write bullshit like this online. I have driven many bimmers for years and years. The x drives do better in in-climate weather.(period)
Achtung, grammar police here. It's "inclement".

Thank you for your cooperation.
Appreciate 0
      10-26-2013, 12:44 AM   #24
didba
New Member
0
Rep
14
Posts

 
Drives: 2012 328i
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston

iTrader: (0)

Steve,

I work in Lexington and have an F30 rwd. One of my co-workers has an F30 rwd as well. So at least 2 in New England.
Appreciate 0
      10-26-2013, 01:24 AM   #25
rayg
Private First Class
2
Rep
195
Posts

 
Drives: 435i
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Sacramento, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric SS View Post
Opposite problem in Phoenix. Good luck finding a single Xdrive 3 or 5 on a lot here.
Yeah I'm not sure I've ever seen an x drive BMW here in California outside of Lake Tahoe either.
Appreciate 0
      10-26-2013, 06:21 AM   #26
btbossman
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
16
Rep
1,571
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 335xi M sport--2014 M6
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yobyot View Post
You are both rude and wrong. The poster that offended you so much is absolutely correct: AWD (or 4WD) does not help you in a skid, which by definition is when the wheels have zero traction. And it's at least debatable if AWD helps with braking distance.

And it's common sense that AWD makes people who don't understand the physics of driving feel more confident -- usually that translates into them driving faster and endangering themselves and everyone else.

AWD is a good thing, but as the owner's manuals all warn it won't repeal the laws of physics.
Sorry friend I dont get offended by morons on line... Say what you want...Ive hydroplaned(around 80mph) to a certain degree several times in rwd's...NEVER in awd's...Now granted Im kind of a wheel whore so I always have fairly good condition tires but still, no one can tell me otherwise...my comment for the other moron was mainly on the fact he is wasting his time, as are you. Drive both for years in inclement weather and tell me for yourself!
Appreciate 0
      10-26-2013, 06:22 AM   #27
btbossman
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
16
Rep
1,571
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 335xi M sport--2014 M6
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Charlotte, NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
Achtung, grammar police here. It's "inclement".

Thank you for your cooperation.
Thank you! Was wondering why that didn't quite look right.
Appreciate 0
      10-26-2013, 07:58 AM   #28
NosceTeIpsum
Private First Class
2
Rep
107
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 328i xdrive
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Boston, Ma

iTrader: (0)

RWD is really a different way of driving, and with both RWD and AWD you need to pay close attention on how you drive in adverse weather conditions. With that there is no point in denying that with exact equipment xdrive is better than rwd in snow. I too live in Boston, and having owned audi s4, bmw 330xi and now the 328x idrive i truly appreciate the extra two wheels spinning.

Over confidence based on a technology is never good, I too see many Suvs stuck on the road during our winters, driver's fault 90% of times.

Is aggressive marketing coupled with ignorance the key problem? I think so.
Appreciate 0
      10-26-2013, 09:24 AM   #29
trey100
Lieutenant
6
Rep
453
Posts

 
Drives: 2014 335xi Msport 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn
Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
I don't know. Where I live we have our share of mostly SUVs in ditches but I always enjoy seeing the RWD folks fishtail everywhere with no forward progress. Now I live in a part of NY with plenty of hills and sometimes the traffic stops which is challenging for a RWD car to get started again. To me the draw for AWD is that I don't need winter tires for 4 months of the year - sacrificing performance for 99 percent of the winter.
I think we can add another misguided person to the list of those who think that power equals traction.
Who said power equals traction? I'm not sure if people debating this have actually ever owned both types of vehicles and tires. I have. My point is not that a winter tire doesn't perform better driving in snow and ice because it's factually true that it does. My point is that a winter tire does not perform as well in non-snow and ice conditions. Here in NY, our roads are plowed quickly so it's not often that you find yourself in conditions where the winter tires work best. But you will find yourself much of the winter in conditions that it doesn't perform well or at least outperformed by a very good all season tire. I don't want to spend 4 months of every year on a tire that has poorer traction on dry roads which is what we drive on most of the winter. I've done that already and prefer buying an AWD car with UHP all seasons so that the small penalty in the summer (remember we are not tracking the car) outweighs the penalty for the 4-6 days that we drive in snow. When there is snow on the ground it doesn't matter what tire you have or which wheels are driving the car, you are still driving carefully so I would rather lose a bit of performance then than the majority of the year. Also, wearing summer tires can get you in trouble here in NY as well with unexpected large temperature drops. Overall, for me (and the majority of people), AWD with good tires is less of a compromise than the summer/winter setup. A RWD vehicle forces you into a summer/winter setup whereas a AWD vehicle gives you the choice of either that or going all seasons year round. And I reiterate and back to the point of my original "misguided" post - RWD cars with winter tires have trouble getting up hills where I live. AWD cars with all seasons do not.

If I lived in a different climate with milder weather and shorter winters, I would maybe go back to RWD with summer tires and winter tires for the small winter season but the more I continue to buy AWD cars with good UHP tires the more I believe for me not tracking the car, AWD with good all seasons is best.

I feel better now.
Appreciate 0
      10-26-2013, 09:32 AM   #30
trey100
Lieutenant
6
Rep
453
Posts

 
Drives: 2014 335xi Msport 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by or0b0to
Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
I don't know. Where I live we have our share of mostly SUVs in ditches but I always enjoy seeing the RWD folks fishtail everywhere with no forward progress. Now I live in a part of NY with plenty of hills and sometimes the traffic stops which is challenging for a RWD car to get started again. To me the draw for AWD is that I don't need winter tires for 4 months of the year - sacrificing performance for 99 percent of the winter.
Even AWD benefits from Winter tires in Winter conditions...




That is very true. No disagreement there. AWD and winter tires makes your car the best prepared for snow and ice.
Appreciate 0
      10-26-2013, 09:37 AM   #31
trey100
Lieutenant
6
Rep
453
Posts

 
Drives: 2014 335xi Msport 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by or0b0to
Quote:
Originally Posted by btbossman View Post
Idk Ive driven multiple bimmers on basically dustings/def under an inch, and had traction issues...X drive is just piece of mind for me, and I dont have to slow down in the rain!
That's more a function of your tires than the drivetrain.

I really don't understand what the AWD obsession is for. Most cars in the north that are on the road are not AWD, and for decades people have been making it through winters with the proper set of tires on their vehicle.

I will be at least one person w/ a RWD BMW this winter here in NE... with winter tires... and I think I'll be just fine.
Most cars in the north are not AWD but it's getting close with FWD cars combined with AWD making up a large percentage of all cars. If Honda, Toyota, and Nissan made the Accord, civic, Camry, corolla, sentra, Altima, and maxima with the option for AWD, I am certain you would see most people in NY buying that version. Example - how many FWD highlanders do you see or A4s ? People choose AWD in the NE for the most part when that option exists.
Appreciate 0
      10-26-2013, 09:45 AM   #32
Elk
Major
12
Rep
1,275
Posts

 
Drives: 2012 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: *

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by btbossman View Post
...Ive hydroplaned(around 80mph) to a certain degree several times in rwd's...NEVER in awd's...
The drivetrain has absolutely nothing top do with resistance to hydroplaning. This is solely the function of the tires.

Hydroplaning occurs when the tread of the tires are unable to displace the amount of water on the road. The tires lose contact with the road and instead skim on the surface of the water - a/k/a hydroplane.

This is an example of the misunderstanding of basic physics that can get an AWD driver in trouble.

AWD is great for initial acceleration in slippery conditions. BMW's xDrive does nothing to improve handling, cornering, resistance to hydroplaning, traction while underway, etc.

I agree with the winter beater concept. I am in Minnesota and an RWD 335 with dedicated snow tires is my winter beater. It is a great winter car while the toys stay inside.
Appreciate 0
      10-26-2013, 10:44 AM   #33
ynguldyn
Lieutenant
35
Rep
484
Posts

 
Drives: the other car.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Boston

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
I don't want to spend 4 months of every year on a tire that has poorer traction on dry roads which is what we drive on most of the winter. I've done that already and prefer buying an AWD car with UHP all seasons so that the small penalty in the summer (remember we are not tracking the car) outweighs the penalty for the 4-6 days that we drive in snow. When there is snow on the ground it doesn't matter what tire you have or which wheels are driving the car, you are still driving carefully so I would rather lose a bit of performance then than the majority of the year. Also, wearing summer tires can get you in trouble here in NY as well with unexpected large temperature drops.
I strongly disagree with you on the comparison between summer and all-seasons in good weather. I feel that the advantage of summer tires, especially if you're willing to go for those that last 20K or less, is too large to ignore. So, what you see as "4 months with poorer traction", I see as "4 months with poorer traction AND 4 months with a safer car AND 8 months with much better traction".
Appreciate 0
      10-26-2013, 10:54 AM   #34
or0b0to
Private First Class
2
Rep
102
Posts

 
Drives: Something old and moldy
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by trey100 View Post
... My point is that a winter tire does not perform as well in non-snow and ice conditions...
Not true.

The colder it gets the harder the rubber gets on non-winter tires, and that equals less traction.

All season tires will stay a little more pliable than summers, but not as soft as winters.

So, if you live in a place like NE where it doesn't get above 40 for good portions of the winter, even if there is no snow on the ground, you will get better traction with winter tires... And that equals better breaking distance, better grip for acceleration, and better cornering.

This is scientific fact, not opinion.

Edit: Here's a great video showing winter tires in cold, but not snow/ice conditions (that part starts at 2:40)


Last edited by or0b0to; 10-26-2013 at 11:00 AM.
Appreciate 0
      10-26-2013, 11:31 AM   #35
trey100
Lieutenant
6
Rep
453
Posts

 
Drives: 2014 335xi Msport 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

I respect your opinion and am glad to see we can keep this civil as many of these conversations go to poop quick. I will just say the following:

1. There are way too many variables, even between tire brands to say anything is absolute. All we have is our experiences and general guidelines in anything other than black/white situations. My personal experience with winter tires is that they do not perform as good as UHP all seasons in dry weather. That's all I can say about that.

2. It's very possible that winter tires have become better in the dry since I stopped using them. That being said, I've seen all seasons get much better as well. Take a look at the latest Michelin A/S 3 tires. They are testing better than many summer tires in the dry and wet. So saying summer tires are automatically better is not always true although true in many cases.

3. Having to get started up snowy hills is common in my area. In this case, AWD is extremely helpful and will be better most times than a typical RWD and winter set combo. I can always drive slow with my all seasons and never get stuck but if I had a RWD car and winters I could very well get stuck.

4. What you state about winter tire compounds is true but it is not the only thing that makes winter tires perform well in the snow and ice. That would discredit tread design. There is a large variation between winter tires so the tread design is important and is focused on snow and ice, not dry.

5. Take a look at the September issue of consumer reports where they rated different tires. In the winter tire category almost all the tires rated below average on dry handling. Not the case for snow performance of all seasons.

Anyway, this will never get resolved here. My experience tells me that AWD and all seasons is the least compromise. Many people have the same experience. To each their own.
Appreciate 0
      10-26-2013, 03:57 PM   #36
Christos
Lieutenant
Christos's Avatar
12
Rep
516
Posts

 
Drives: 2014 428i Msport
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Central, NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by or0b0to View Post
That's more a function of your tires than the drivetrain.

I really don't understand what the AWD obsession is for. Most cars in the north that are on the road are not AWD, and for decades people have been making it through winters with the proper set of tires on their vehicle.

I will be at least one person w/ a RWD BMW this winter here in NE... with winter tires... and I think I'll be just fine.
+1 to that, rwd with snow tires = great handling
__________________
2014 428i Msport Delivered
Previously owned 2011 Audi S4, 2008 335i Coupe, 2007 328xi sedan, 2005 G35, 2002 325i sedan, 2000 Audi A4, 1998 Audi A4, 1996 318ti (loved this little car)
Appreciate 0
      10-26-2013, 05:34 PM   #37
Elk
Major
12
Rep
1,275
Posts

 
Drives: 2012 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: *

iTrader: (0)

+1

An xDrive is a fine choice if you are uncomfortable driving in the snow and have convinced yourself you need it, or regularly drive into the mountains to ski and would otherwise be required to use chains.
Appreciate 0
      10-26-2013, 06:24 PM   #38
Vitoco
Captain
Vitoco's Avatar
Sweden
13
Rep
854
Posts

 
Drives: F31 328i M Sport
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sweden

iTrader: (0)

Man we wen't through this about a year ago, are these discussions gonna pop up every winter?

AWD doesnt not magically help you stay on the road, the winter tyres do. But not magically, you still gotta pay attention

I live in Sweden, the winters here are often long, snowy and cold. We brought u the Volvo, rwd til mid 90's. Never was a problem, why? Cause there's a law prohibiting summers from 1st of december (though you are allowed to put the winters on from october 15th) and the studded tyre has been a norm for ages.

Best way to go is having two setups; one dedicated to the winter and one for the summer. Dont be cheap and go all season, that'll just give u a mediocre tyre all year round. So don't think you're smart by getting the x-drive so u "only need" one setup - what u pay for the x-drive will give u that second setup and then some.

Tyres are everything. Had un-studded winters one winter, worked ok in the snow but on icy streets? Almost crashed into a tram once going 15 mph trying to stop waaay ahead of an intersection i was coming up to. Car just skid slooooowly before coming to a halt. Never again, been running Continental ContiIceContact since.

Don't fool yourselves, x-Men, It's all bout the rubber.
__________________
Glacier Ag. F31 328iA M Sport oct. 2012
| Sport Automatic | Adap. M Susp. | Pano. Moonroof | 20" ATS Racelight Grey w. Michelin PSS| M Sport brakes | Harman Kardon | Elec. Seats | PDC F&R | ACC Stop&Go | 335i MPE | Perf. Parts |
Appreciate 0
      10-26-2013, 06:40 PM   #39
fotios335i
Major General
fotios335i's Avatar
United_States
121
Rep
6,769
Posts

 
Drives: 12 BSM F30 sport/msport 335i
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: cape cod MA

iTrader: (61)

I have a rwd 335i with all M performance parts. I'm near the cape. Rare cars indeed around here.
__________________

2012 335i sport to full Msport, M adaptive and vss, sport 8 AT, fully loaded, Black saphire, black dakota leather, mperformance carbon interior with shifter, M performance grills, rear spoiler, front splitter, side sill extensions, MPPK, MPE exhaust, morr alloys vs8.2's with michelin pss, p3 gauge, msport wheel, etc, etc
Appreciate 0
      10-26-2013, 06:51 PM   #40
Fille
Private First Class
Fille's Avatar
Sweden
1
Rep
125
Posts

 
Drives: 320d 6MT MPPK -12, 328i -96 MT
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Stockholm

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitoco View Post
Man we wen't through this about a year ago, are these discussions gonna pop up every winter?

AWD doesnt not magically help you stay on the road, the winter tyres do. But not magically, you still gotta pay attention

I live in Sweden, the winters here are often long, snowy and cold. We brought u the Volvo, rwd til mid 90's. Never was a problem, why? Cause there's a law prohibiting summers from 1st of december (though you are allowed to put the winters on from october 15th) and the studded tyre has been a norm for ages.

Best way to go is having two setups; one dedicated to the winter and one for the summer. Dont be cheap and go all season, that'll just give u a mediocre tyre all year round. So don't think you're smart by getting the x-drive so u "only need" one setup - what u pay for the x-drive will give u that second setup and then some.

Tyres are everything. Had un-studded winters one winter, worked ok in the snow but on icy streets? Almost crashed into a tram once going 15 mph trying to stop waaay ahead of an intersection i was coming up to. Car just skid slooooowly before coming to a halt. Never again, been running Continental ContiIceContact since.

Don't fool yourselves, x-Men, It's all bout the rubber.


Thank you, most people here have no idea how it's like without winter tires in really bad winter conditions like we have in Sweden. If winter tires weren't mandatory people would be dying like flies. No magical AWD setup will save you once you're in a skid, even if it's a Quattro or the apparently godlike X-Drive .

You can't disprove basic science people
__________________
I'm just a regular everyday normal guy.
Appreciate 0
      10-26-2013, 07:17 PM   #41
Christos
Lieutenant
Christos's Avatar
12
Rep
516
Posts

 
Drives: 2014 428i Msport
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Central, NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitoco View Post
Man we wen't through this about a year ago, are these discussions gonna pop up every winter?

AWD doesnt not magically help you stay on the road, the winter tyres do. But not magically, you still gotta pay attention

I live in Sweden, the winters here are often long, snowy and cold. We brought u the Volvo, rwd til mid 90's. Never was a problem, why? Cause there's a law prohibiting summers from 1st of december (though you are allowed to put the winters on from october 15th) and the studded tyre has been a norm for ages.

Best way to go is having two setups; one dedicated to the winter and one for the summer. Dont be cheap and go all season, that'll just give u a mediocre tyre all year round. So don't think you're smart by getting the x-drive so u "only need" one setup - what u pay for the x-drive will give u that second setup and then some.

Tyres are everything. Had un-studded winters one winter, worked ok in the snow but on icy streets? Almost crashed into a tram once going 15 mph trying to stop waaay ahead of an intersection i was coming up to. Car just skid slooooowly before coming to a halt. Never again, been running Continental ContiIceContact since.

Don't fool yourselves, x-Men, It's all bout the rubber.
Totally agree, I have quattro and one set of summer tires and one set of winter tires. Wouldn't do it any other way.
__________________
2014 428i Msport Delivered
Previously owned 2011 Audi S4, 2008 335i Coupe, 2007 328xi sedan, 2005 G35, 2002 325i sedan, 2000 Audi A4, 1998 Audi A4, 1996 318ti (loved this little car)
Appreciate 0
      10-26-2013, 10:22 PM   #42
Elk
Major
12
Rep
1,275
Posts

 
Drives: 2012 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: *

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitoco View Post
AWD doesnt not magically help you stay on the road, the winter tyres do. But not magically, you still gotta pay attention

. . .

Don't fool yourselves, x-Men, It's all bout the rubber.
Excellent, excellent post, Vitoco. You are absolutely correct.

Thanks, Fille, for chiming in as well.

These threads always need a strong dose of reality.
Appreciate 0
      10-27-2013, 06:40 AM   #43
Vitoco
Captain
Vitoco's Avatar
Sweden
13
Rep
854
Posts

 
Drives: F31 328i M Sport
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sweden

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fille View Post


Thank you, most people here have no idea how it's like without winter tires in really bad winter conditions like we have in Sweden. If winter tires weren't mandatory people would be dying like flies. No magical AWD setup will save you once you're in a skid, even if it's a Quattro or the apparently godlike X-Drive .

You can't disprove basic science people
Japp!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christos View Post
Totally agree, I have quattro and one set of summer tires and one set of winter tires. Wouldn't do it any other way.
Exactly!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elk View Post
Excellent, excellent post, Vitoco. You are absolutely correct.

Thanks, Fille, for chiming in as well.

These threads always need a strong dose of reality.
Thanks!!

__________________
Glacier Ag. F31 328iA M Sport oct. 2012
| Sport Automatic | Adap. M Susp. | Pano. Moonroof | 20" ATS Racelight Grey w. Michelin PSS| M Sport brakes | Harman Kardon | Elec. Seats | PDC F&R | ACC Stop&Go | 335i MPE | Perf. Parts |
Appreciate 0
      10-27-2013, 06:55 AM   #44
trey100
Lieutenant
6
Rep
453
Posts

 
Drives: 2014 335xi Msport 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitoco
Man we wen't through this about a year ago, are these discussions gonna pop up every winter?

AWD doesnt not magically help you stay on the road, the winter tyres do. But not magically, you still gotta pay attention

I live in Sweden, the winters here are often long, snowy and cold. We brought u the Volvo, rwd til mid 90's. Never was a problem, why? Cause there's a law prohibiting summers from 1st of december (though you are allowed to put the winters on from october 15th) and the studded tyre has been a norm for ages.

Best way to go is having two setups; one dedicated to the winter and one for the summer. Dont be cheap and go all season, that'll just give u a mediocre tyre all year round. So don't think you're smart by getting the x-drive so u "only need" one setup - what u pay for the x-drive will give u that second setup and then some.

Tyres are everything. Had un-studded winters one winter, worked ok in the snow but on icy streets? Almost crashed into a tram once going 15 mph trying to stop waaay ahead of an intersection i was coming up to. Car just skid slooooowly before coming to a halt. Never again, been running Continental ContiIceContact since.

Don't fool yourselves, x-Men, It's all bout the rubber.
Vitoco,

You are correct. Winter tires work best in the conditions you describe but we don't all live in Sweden. For instance, you mentioned that unstudded winter tires almost got you killed. Those are the same tires everyone here is saying are needed for the winter. You are making my point exactly. Depending on your climate, there are differences in what you need. If we had snow and ice filled roads here in NY, I am sure we would be forced to a more aggressive set up for safety's sake. But here we don't have those conditions a and clearly AWD (for climbing power) and all seasons works well. Very few people in NY are using dedicated winter tires and of those, most are RWD cars. People make it through fine. If ultimate safety was on everyone's agenda, the folks here who use winter tires would go a step further and get AWD as well. Just in case it is needed.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:43 AM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST