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      10-27-2013, 09:07 AM   #45
alpinweiss 335i
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... and there you have it boys and girls ... winter is officially here!


If it weren't for the increased ride height and base suspension, there would be no question in my mind that xDrive is the way to go in the northeast. But BMW has yet to figure out a way to mitigate those factors on xDrive cars since the only way to get a lowered car and sport/M suspension is RWD. If it were apples to apples, xDrive would take my money hands down.
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      10-27-2013, 09:49 AM   #46
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Governments can mandate snow tires, only because they can not force you to sell your existing car and buy/drive an AWD car.


Snow tires will always trump all season tires in inclement braking conditions (wet/ice/snow) - for both AWD or RWD.


AWD/xDrive/Quattro with all seasons will "most times" assure better performance over RWD on snows in acceleration off the line, cornering, fish tail corrections, lane changes, hilly terrain, inclined roads and steep driveways or just plain getting yourself loose when you're snowed in at the grocery store parking lot!


On paper (!!!!) snow tires will perform better (whether it is AWD or RWD), but real life experiences suggest otherwise. Once your snow tires start loosing tread, you're SOL baby! AWD and all seasons are more forgiving under real life conditions (not only controlled, lab tested conditions).


My very subjective personal experience driving in New England weather, and the very well respected and widely published ///M235i snow-driving and universal rating-scale system says (citation required):

e46 330xi all seasons - 8/10
e90 330i all seasons - 4/10 (but boy was it fun!)
e90 330i dedicated snow setup - 6/10
f30 335i xDrive all seasons - 8/10
e92 M3 Michelin super sports - ... stay tuned. I hear the rear differential helps make loss-of-traction-power-slides-into-the-ditch sound much better, even faster and more glorious!


Moral of my post, do what you please! None of us will be there to defend your decision of tires or drive train when you're stuck in a snowy ditch on the side of the road in sub freezing temperatures and bad traffic late at night when (oops) you forgot to bring your gloves and winter coat along and you have to dig your car out of the snow bank or explain to the guy you just rear ended why your car swerved at him like a maniac ... its all you my friend. But i'm sure you will probably think of us too and some of the stuff being said today.


The onslaught of RWD vs xDrive threads is inevitable and I'm gonna go out today and stock up on some hot coco for the fun! Can't miss it!
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      10-27-2013, 09:51 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehecht View Post
Of the three large dealers near my home NONE of them even have ONE RWD car in stock. I find that hard to believe, but it's true. Neither Tully BMW, Wagner BMW, or BMW of Sudbury even have one to test drive! The reason, according to one CA, is that "nobody buys them in New England". I also find that hard to believe. I live in Acton, MA about 20 miles northwest of Boston.

Your CA is probably right. There are 2 or 3 people in all of New England who have RWD f30s, and they're all here on f30post.


Me, you, us, are not the typical 3 series buyers anymore.


But if you must, you can always go to cars.com and do a inventory search of new 328i bmw and see if there is one close enough where your dealer can transport it for you.
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      10-27-2013, 09:54 AM   #48
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There are a few out there ...

http://www.cars.com/for-sale/searchr...rnId&pgId=2102


Edit: check out Herb Chambers and BMW of Warwick (RI).

Edit: You can also ask your CA to search the port inventory, search on the ships arriving at the ports in the next few days or couple of weeks for your specific model.
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      10-27-2013, 02:17 PM   #49
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BMW Norwood actually has several 2013 RWD 328s. I'll be there tomorrow to drive one of them. No sport suspensions available though. Assuming it passes the 'this-car-has-potential-when-adequately-modified' test, I'll be signing up for the first Ultimate Driving Event in April and ordering my car as soon as I get my coupon ID number.

I find this discussion of AWD vs. RWD and A/S vs. winter tires very interesting and well-argued on both sides. But once you're committed to RWD there's no way that I would try to get by in New England with A/S, even the best that's out there. I take it some people advocate RWD with A/S in NE, but that doesn't make sense to me.

We're going to be moving to northern New Mexico in the next couple of years, and that's where I would consider switching to the Michelin A/S 3, if they're as good as expected.
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      10-27-2013, 02:51 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by or0b0to
Quote:
Originally Posted by btbossman View Post
Idk Ive driven multiple bimmers on basically dustings/def under an inch, and had traction issues...X drive is just piece of mind for me, and I dont have to slow down in the rain!
That's more a function of your tires than the drivetrain.

I really don't understand what the AWD obsession is for. Most cars in the north that are on the road are not AWD, and for decades people have been making it through winters with the proper set of tires on their vehicle.

I will be at least one person w/ a RWD BMW this winter here in NE... with winter tires... and I think I'll be just fine.
In case you didn't know, most cars are fwd and BMW is one of the few who don't make them. That's why you don't see so many knuckleheads in the ditch in MA. I should know, I live here. Before you start, I'm excluding sports cars here 'cause I don't see may rwd Porsches, Vettes or other bad ass rwd out in a Nor'easter
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      10-27-2013, 04:07 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Axman85 View Post
In case you didn't know, most cars are fwd and BMW is one of the few who don't make them. That's why you don't see so many knuckleheads in the ditch in MA. I should know, I live here. Before you start, I'm excluding sports cars here 'cause I don't see may rwd Porsches, Vettes or other bad ass rwd out in a Nor'easter
That's usually because people with $50,000 sports cars with 3" of ground clearance don't make for very good snowmobiles.

It's not like most police officers and taxi's aren't using RWD Crown Vic's since the dawn of time.
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      10-27-2013, 04:46 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Axman85 View Post
In case you didn't know, most cars are fwd and BMW is one of the few who don't make them. That's why you don't see so many knuckleheads in the ditch in MA. I should know, I live here. Before you start, I'm excluding sports cars here 'cause I don't see may rwd Porsches, Vettes or other bad ass rwd out in a Nor'easter
That's usually because people with $50,000 sports cars with 3" of ground clearance don't make for very good snowmobiles.

It's not like most police officers and taxi's aren't using RWD Crown Vic's since the dawn of time.
True and they spend a lot of time slipping and sliding all over New York City. I think the main reason is that they drive so many miles and need the simplest cars to ensure the longest life. I know cabs aren't using winter tires and my guess is that neither are the police cars but I've never checked. Doesn't make sense.
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      10-28-2013, 12:48 PM   #53
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drive is just piece of mind for me, and I dont have to slow down in the rain!
Good luck with that!
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      10-28-2013, 01:08 PM   #54
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Good luck with that!
Having great luck with that!
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      10-28-2013, 08:46 PM   #55
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Driveway on hill

I have a 30' driveway that runs up a hill with a turn in the middle. My M3 has some trouble in the snow. I'm thinking of trading it in for a new 3 or 4 series, and I'm thinking about getting an Xdrive to help with the hill.

This thread has made me wonder if it will really help. Any opinions?
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      10-28-2013, 08:53 PM   #56
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stevehecht,

How was your drive?
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      10-28-2013, 10:33 PM   #57
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From http://www.f30post.com/forums/showth...900332&page=3;

"So today I drove a rwd 328i MT SportLine with A/S tires. I felt fortunate that I found one "only" 35 miles from my home.

A definite improvement over the AWD in terms of the ability to drive off the rear wheels (of course!) and in that sense I could relate it to my E30. Yes it is bigger and heavier but it didn't feel heavy, bloated, or boatlike. It was satisfying in the sense that the driving position and sport seat felt comfortable and locked in. Steering wheel felt hefty enough though the action was a bit light. Steering response was not as direct as my E30 but better tires, lighter wheels, stiffer springs, and a thicker RSB would help that out. (Perhaps the Dinan Shockware suspension upgrade will be helpful there.) I still would like to see another ~25 hp come out of the engine, and I will wait for Dinan to come out with their Stage 1 for that.

All in all I'm satisfied with the car's potential for feeling even better once these mods are added. I plan on joining the first Ultimate Driving Event I can find in my area for 2014 and placing my order shortly after that with the dealership that best meets my price via internet quotes."
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      10-29-2013, 11:56 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scattershot
I have a 30' driveway that runs up a hill with a turn in the middle. My M3 has some trouble in the snow. I'm thinking of trading it in for a new 3 or 4 series, and I'm thinking about getting an Xdrive to help with the hill.

This thread has made me wonder if it will really help. Any opinions?
X drive is great and I haven't found a hill I can't get up during our blizzards in MA.
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      10-29-2013, 12:49 PM   #59
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X drive is great and I haven't found a hill I can't get up during our blizzards in MA.

100% my experience as well. xDrive is very competent.




Quote:
Originally Posted by scattershot View Post
I have a 30' driveway that runs up a hill with a turn in the middle. My M3 has some trouble in the snow. I'm thinking of trading it in for a new 3 or 4 series, and I'm thinking about getting an Xdrive to help with the hill.

This thread has made me wonder if it will really help. Any opinions?

xDrive will definitely help getting you up the hill, but won't prevent you from sliding all the way down if you loose traction. I would say you need both xDrive and snow boots.
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      10-29-2013, 01:02 PM   #60
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Add me to the list of folks who will be running a/s rubber on a RWD 335i during the winter months. I am in Ohio and someitmes we see huge snow falls, other times we see no snow all season.

I like having fun with my car and don't plan to stop just becuase it's getting cold. I am going to run ultra high perf a/s Conti DWS tires which I have really enjoyed in the past. This way I can still drive fun and fast when I want to on dry roads and enjoy WAY more performance that any winter tire could ever give me. Granted I'll loose a tiny bit when it snows but when it does snow around there the roads are cleared within a day or so.
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      10-29-2013, 01:58 PM   #61
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Thanks for the input on Xdrive, folks.
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      10-29-2013, 06:54 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by ///M235i View Post
AWD/xDrive/Quattro with all seasons will "most times" assure better performance over RWD on snows in acceleration off the line, cornering, fish tail corrections, lane changes, hilly terrain, inclined roads and steep driveways or just plain getting yourself loose when you're snowed in at the grocery store parking lot
acceleration off the line - The strong suit of xDrive, but only applicable when so slippery RWD looses traction.

cornering - No, never. This is a function solely of tires/friction, and has nothing to do with drivetrain. An RWD on slows outcorners xDrive on all seasons in slippery conditions. Basic physics.

fish tail corrections - Nope, never

lane changes - Nope, never

hilly terrain, inclined roads and steep driveways, getting yourself loose when you're snowed in at the grocery store parking lot - again, only is so slippery RWD looses traction.
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      10-29-2013, 07:26 PM   #63
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acceleration off the line - The strong suit of xDrive, but only applicable when so slippery RWD looses traction.

cornering - No, never. This is a function solely of tires/friction, and has nothing to do with drivetrain. An RWD on snows outcorners xDrive on all seasons in slippery conditions. Basic physics.

fish tail corrections - Nope, never

lane changes - Nope, never

hilly terrain, inclined roads and steep driveways, getting yourself loose when you're snowed in at the grocery store parking lot - again, only if it is so slippery RWD looses traction.
Fixed it for ya. I was hoping someone would respond to ///M235i's claims. They seemed inaccurate to me, but I'm no expert on these things.
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