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      05-30-2015, 10:20 PM   #1
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F30 Dinan Stage 2 and CAI on top of MPPK or JB4?

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Hey guys,

I am very close to getting Dinan Stage 2 with the Dinan CAI on my F30 N55 (MPPK and MPE). Not like I am a numbers guy but Dinan's quoted numbers are 382HP and 455 lbs. of torque.

Is anyone else considering this or do you think it is just way too expensive to go this route after already doing MPPK? Cost is my biggest concern here since you have to spend close to $3K for the CAI and tune when JB4 is only 20% of that cost ($600 or so)..

The alternative is to go with JB4 and the possible warranty concerns that comes with an aftermarket tune.

I had Dinan Stage 2 on my E90 N54 and loved it, no issues with the tune.

Thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks!
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      05-31-2015, 12:46 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timothyhugh View Post
Hey guys,

I am very close to getting Dinan Stage 2 with the Dinan CAI on my F30 N55 (MPPK and MPE). Not like I am a numbers guy but Dinan's quoted numbers are 382HP and 455 lbs. of torque.

Is anyone else considering this or do you think it is just way too expensive to go this route after already doing MPPK? Cost is my biggest concern here since you have to spend close to $3K for the CAI and tune when JB4 is only 20% of that cost ($600 or so)..

The alternative is to go with JB4 and the possible warranty concerns that comes with an aftermarket tune.

I had Dinan Stage 2 on my E90 N54 and loved it, no issues with the tune.

Thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks!
Is it just me or do CAIs seem to be less inviting then they once were? I go to 3-4 track events a year and a lot of guys seems to say the CAI makes the car noisier but doesn't really do much for performance. I guess you could go with the Dinan alone and see. I can't see a CAI giving the car that much more power.

As for the JB4, there is a lot of positive feedback on that tune and the price is pretty reasonable. Although that Dinan warranty has me considering one for the next car in 18 months . . ..
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      05-31-2015, 04:05 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by menncars
Quote:
Originally Posted by timothyhugh View Post
Hey guys,

I am very close to getting Dinan Stage 2 with the Dinan CAI on my F30 N55 (MPPK and MPE). Not like I am a numbers guy but Dinan's quoted numbers are 382HP and 455 lbs. of torque.

Is anyone else considering this or do you think it is just way too expensive to go this route after already doing MPPK? Cost is my biggest concern here since you have to spend close to $3K for the CAI and tune when JB4 is only 20% of that cost ($600 or so)..

The alternative is to go with JB4 and the possible warranty concerns that comes with an aftermarket tune.

I had Dinan Stage 2 on my E90 N54 and loved it, no issues with the tune.

Thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks!
Is it just me or do CAIs seem to be less inviting then they once were? I go to 3-4 track events a year and a lot of guys seems to say the CAI makes the car noisier but doesn't really do much for performance. I guess you could go with the Dinan alone and see. I can't see a CAI giving the car that much more power.

As for the JB4, there is a lot of positive feedback on that tune and the price is pretty reasonable. Although that Dinan warranty has me considering one for the next car in 18 months . . ..
He's considering the Dinan stage 2 AND the CAI.
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      05-31-2015, 09:57 AM   #4
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Remember that Dinan numbers are at the crank and every other tune goes by rear wheel. Doesn't really matter but it makes for a bigger more impressive number and keeps it simple for those comparing numbers to stock BMW crank numbers, which are underrated. There is a m235i on the 2 series board running 11.7's @116 mph with a JB4, DP, and a cai and I'm sure a mix of e85. That's halling
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      05-31-2015, 01:17 PM   #5
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For the latest Dinantronics (Stage 2), the CAI is a requirement. They don't just let you add the software without this. I guess it's their way of making you buy their intake. It does have carbon fiber pieces so it it really nice looking but at $599 + .5 hours of installation time (whether BMW does it or myself). It's pricey.

Stage 2 shows at $2249 + 1 hour installation.

http://www.dinancars.com/product/d44...ries&mid=1205/
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      05-31-2015, 01:22 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by menncars View Post
Is it just me or do CAIs seem to be less inviting then they once were? I go to 3-4 track events a year and a lot of guys seems to say the CAI makes the car noisier but doesn't really do much for performance. I guess you could go with the Dinan alone and see. I can't see a CAI giving the car that much more power.

As for the JB4, there is a lot of positive feedback on that tune and the price is pretty reasonable. Although that Dinan warranty has me considering one for the next car in 18 months . . ..
For a new car, I would go this route with Dinan (not MPPK), no question...

Another positive about Dinan is, according to their description: "It is also the only tuning device emissions legal in all 50 states."

Mine is a 2013 M Sport with only 22K miles (just over 2 years of warranty left). No issues at all, just an oil change and a brake fluid service so I may only visit the dealer once or twice per year for scheduled services. This is the main reason why I am even considering JB4 and cost, of course.
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      05-31-2015, 03:22 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by timothyhugh View Post
For the latest Dinantronics (Stage 2), the CAI is a requirement. They don't just let you add the software without this. I guess it's their way of making you buy their intake.
This.

Dinan used to be a respectable brand but they've turned into a complete joke. What an intake will provide is nothing significant enough to be a "requirement" for any certain map or state of tune. By requiring it, they make it seem as if it is somehow dangerous or ill advised to have the Stage 2 program with the stock intake which is complete nonsense. Certain parts may provide a change significant enough over stock to warrant necessity before a higher level of tune. On these cars, an intake is nothing close to that.

It's just another example of Dinan taking advantage of their target demographic's lack of knowledge. If they released their "Stage 2" mapping without any sort of barrier to entry or requirement parts wise, their customers would be left scratching their heads as to why "Stage 1" exists.
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      05-31-2015, 04:04 PM   #8
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I agree about Stage 1, why even bother with that.

I also agree with your thoughts about intakes, the software would correct itself for more or less air so an intake shouldn't be a requirement. Maybe a recommendation based on their tests and dynos to get optimal results but not a requirement.

So would you recommend JB4 with no intake or another aftermarket intake like BMS or AFE?
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      06-01-2015, 03:41 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timothyhugh View Post
I agree about Stage 1, why even bother with that.

I also agree with your thoughts about intakes, the software would correct itself for more or less air so an intake shouldn't be a requirement. Maybe a recommendation based on their tests and dynos to get optimal results but not a requirement.

So would you recommend JB4 with no intake or another aftermarket intake like BMS or AFE?
I'd recommend starting with one upgrade at time to see what it does. JB4 is a safe bet because if you don't like it, you could cut $50 off the price and resell it pretty quick if it's still relatively new. With the CAI being hardware, it might take a bigger hit even if only slightly used. My impression is that CAIs don't have the demand they once did.

As for the CAI in general I really wonder what good it will do on a turbo or even most modern non-turbo engines for that matter. The concept of a CAI is that by drawing in cooler air, that air has a higher proportion of O2 in it. The car's computer, by measuring output gas, sees there is more O2 then injects more gasoline to take advantage of it. The thing is, what if compression is already so high that any additional O2 added would have little or no effect.

BMW is pretty much squeezing as much fuel efficiency out of a gas engine as any mainstream manufacturer could. Not sure a CAI would make a difference in terms of power or torque. It might make a difference in response but even there, with the throttle remap of Eco, Comfort, and Sport modes available, it might not do much. The car's computer will always readjust engine behaviour to adhere to a planned response.

Good luck and tell us how it goes.

Last edited by menncars; 06-01-2015 at 03:52 PM.
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      06-01-2015, 03:59 PM   #10
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I went with a Dinan Stage 1 tune installed by my BMW dealership. When my N55 hydrolocked after only 2,600 miles, I was happy to get it back to the dealership and not have to worry about who would be picking up the tab for a full engine replacement.

As far as CAI are concerned, they look and sound great but I believe it is the ultimate rip off for our engines in terms of power output.
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      06-01-2015, 04:22 PM   #11
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When my N55 hydrolocked after only 2,600 miles, I was happy to get it back to the dealership and not have to worry about who would be picking up the tab for a full engine replacement.
You went scuba diving in your F30?
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      06-01-2015, 04:26 PM   #12
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You went scuba diving in your F30?
Nope. Two cylinders flooded with gas. Dealership said the high pressure fuel pump may have been the culprit and the engine got sent back to Germany. I have not tried to know more since I got the car back.
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      06-01-2015, 04:30 PM   #13
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Nope. Two cylinders flooded with gas. Dealership said the high pressure fuel pump may have been the culprit and the engine got sent back to Germany. I have not tried to know more since I got the car back.
Not what I expected to hear.
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      06-01-2015, 05:48 PM   #14
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Man, that blows...glad it was taken care of under Warranty
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      06-01-2015, 05:53 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by menncars View Post
I'd recommend starting with one upgrade at time to see what it does. JB4 is a safe bet because if you don't like it, you could cut $50 off the price and resell it pretty quick if it's still relatively new. With the CAI being hardware, it might take a bigger hit even if only slightly used. My impression is that CAIs don't have the demand they once did.

As for the CAI in general I really wonder what good it will do on a turbo or even most modern non-turbo engines for that matter. The concept of a CAI is that by drawing in cooler air, that air has a higher proportion of O2 in it. The car's computer, by measuring output gas, sees there is more O2 then injects more gasoline to take advantage of it. The thing is, what if compression is already so high that any additional O2 added would have little or no effect.

BMW is pretty much squeezing as much fuel efficiency out of a gas engine as any mainstream manufacturer could. Not sure a CAI would make a difference in terms of power or torque. It might make a difference in response but even there, with the throttle remap of Eco, Comfort, and Sport modes available, it might not do much. The car's computer will always readjust engine behaviour to adhere to a planned response.

Good luck and tell us how it goes.
Thanks bud, I really appreciate your comments and agree with everything you said too.

For me, the CAI would be more for sound as I have the MPE and well, it is pretty quiet. I am hoping for a bit of a sportier sound when on it but quiet when just cruising on the freeway.

I hear ya though, $599 for sound is nuts! :-). From an air flow point of view, I would believe that it can only help if do not much at all, it can't hurt.

I am able to get a bit of a discount on both items since I was at Bimmerfest, so I was promised.

I am still leaning towards Dinan for this reason, I think I am no longer considering JB4 and the possible headaches I can have.

Thanks much for all of your comments....really helps..
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      06-01-2015, 05:59 PM   #16
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I found the JB4 created lag between shifts when shifting with the paddles. Compared to the auto/stick
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      06-02-2015, 03:53 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by floppyedonkey View Post
I found the JB4 created lag between shifts when shifting with the paddles. Compared to the auto/stick
Oh, that is not good at all, that would drive me nuts. My old 335 N54 six speed auto was slow and had a delay when using the paddles or shifter so I had to shift a few hundred RPM early to get it right.

I have to say that this new ZF8 sport transmission in the F30 M Sport is the best singe clutch auto transmission I have driven and read about. It is the next best thing to a dual clutch, some car reviewers have even called it as quick as a dual clutch on upshifts. Unfortunately, no rev matching downshifts though.

This makes me lean even more towards Dinan, not like that may not have a similar issue. I can say that my Dinan Stage 2 on my N54 didn't affect the stock transmission shifts at all (from what I can remember).
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      06-02-2015, 04:34 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timothyhugh View Post
Oh, that is not good at all, that would drive me nuts. My old 335 N54 six speed auto was slow and had a delay when using the paddles or shifter so I had to shift a few hundred RPM early to get it right.

I have to say that this new ZF8 sport transmission in the F30 M Sport is the best singe clutch auto transmission I have driven and read about. It is the next best thing to a dual clutch, some car reviewers have even called it as quick as a dual clutch on upshifts. Unfortunately, no rev matching downshifts though.

This makes me lean even more towards Dinan, not like that may not have a similar issue. I can say that my Dinan Stage 2 on my N54 didn't affect the stock transmission shifts at all (from what I can remember).
I'm running JB4 with an aFe intake (among other items) and I honestly can't complain about any changes brought about by them. I purchased both of these mods for around $1000 which is less than half of the Dinan cost. I push my car hard, and haven't noticed any sort of lag between shifts. What people might be misconstruing is the fact that throttle position, RPM, and driving mode will all affect your car's response when driving in manual.

I say go for the JB4 and CAI and call it a day. Trust me, you won't be let down. OH and you'll still have clear of a grand sitting nice and heavy in your back pocket.
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      06-02-2015, 11:17 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhil1423 View Post
I'm running JB4 with an aFe intake (among other items) and I honestly can't complain about any changes brought about by them. I purchased both of these mods for around $1000 which is less than half of the Dinan cost. I push my car hard, and haven't noticed any sort of lag between shifts. What people might be misconstruing is the fact that throttle position, RPM, and driving mode will all affect your car's response when driving in manual.

I say go for the JB4 and CAI and call it a day. Trust me, you won't be let down. OH and you'll still have clear of a grand sitting nice and heavy in your back pocket.
That's great! I have heard this is most cases for folks using JB4, even on my older N54, JB4 was always raved about.

I have read a couple of bad reviews but only a handful. Most reviewers have been very happy.

Have you heard of any negative issues when using JB4?

My main concern is that I would have to remove it each time I take my car for service and if something drastic were to happen, I may not have the opportunity to do that before it is towed in. I wouldn't want to be stuck in that position where I am worried about voiding my warranty.

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      06-02-2015, 12:20 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timothyhugh View Post
That's great! I have heard this is most cases for folks using JB4, even on my older N54, JB4 was always raved about.

I have read a couple of bad reviews but only a handful. Most reviewers have been very happy.

Have you heard of any negative issues when using JB4?

My main concern is that I would have to remove it each time I take my car for service and if something drastic were to happen, I may not have the opportunity to do that before it is towed in. I wouldn't want to be stuck in that position where I am worried about voiding my warranty.
the new JB4 obd2 cable will make it alot easier.
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      06-02-2015, 12:51 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M-terkait
Quote:
Originally Posted by timothyhugh View Post
That's great! I have heard this is most cases for folks using JB4, even on my older N54, JB4 was always raved about.

I have read a couple of bad reviews but only a handful. Most reviewers have been very happy.

Have you heard of any negative issues when using JB4?

My main concern is that I would have to remove it each time I take my car for service and if something drastic were to happen, I may not have the opportunity to do that before it is towed in. I wouldn't want to be stuck in that position where I am worried about voiding my warranty.
the new JB4 obd2 cable will make it alot easier.
Do you mean that you will now load software using the ODB II port and not have a piggy back tuner or will it just be easier to load updates?
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      06-02-2015, 01:12 PM   #22
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I agree, dinan tune is over priced. I was in the same shoes a few months back and after exhaustive research decided to go wiht Jb stage 1 piggy back on top of MPPK. Cost effective option that leaves no traces of install as it requires no wire splicing. It takes me 2 min to uninstall prior to taking the car in for service.

It is important to note that full jb4 will ovveride MPPK tune, and stage 1 simply adds more boost on top (~3PSI based on what I have read). AFE tune is another cost effective option running slightly higher boost (~4 - 4.5PSI over stock). Running tuner with higher boost ovverride (greater than 4 PSI) can ultimatelly trigger hidden tuner codes, which you dont want as it will create warranty issues in case of an engine failure.

For intake I chose AFE momentum intake which is enclosed box. Altogether the cost was $900 shipped to my door from forum vendor. Both JB stage 1 with MPPK and AFE intake performed flawlessly to date. Good luck and spend the difference on a nice set of wheels!.

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