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      11-05-2012, 07:36 AM   #144
Lieutenant General

Drives: E90 & Z4 Coupe
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MARLAND

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Originally Posted by batislav View Post
Can't resist.

Calling someone a snob and elitist, while using a phrase like "true enthusiast" is hilarious.

I don't like the implication that those who drove BMWs in the 80s/90s are "real BMW drivers" as if they are part of an ELITE fraternity. While those who buy BMW due to brand reputation are badge snobs. Maybe you should be flattered that less experienced drivers are taking your word on the quality of many of your previous BMWs.

Am I to take it that when someone buys a toyota due to "brand reliability" they are also badge snobs? Obviously, the brand reputation is as big a part of their decision as any specific qualities of any individual car--corolla, camry, trim lines, who cares it's a toyota.

BTW, BMW thinks the f30 335i sedan is faster than the e92 335i.
I'll answer this with a yes. Yes they are badge snobs if they do not consider any other car brand because they perceive that all other manufacturers have less reliability qualities than a Toyota. Now, as we've seen in the past few years as Toyota has grown to be the world's largest automobile manufacturer, its quality (reliability) has dropped a bit. For a Toyota owner to ignore that fact and still insist there is no other brand that matches Toyota's reliability then that is badge-whoreism.

But to address the specific issue with being a Roundel-Whore, there is a difference between that and being a Toyota badge-whore. The difference is everyone can appreciate that attribute of high-reliability (as what Toyota is known for), but not everyone can appreciate the attributes that BMW (especially the 3-series) has (had?), which is superior driving dynamics for a mass-produced street-based automobile. In the 70's and early 80's BMWs were known as "driver’s cars". They were relativity expensive and expensive to maintain, but the pain was worth it to those who appreciated the driving response the brand provided. All that has changed; it started in the late 80's with the Yuppies, who once affluent, bought the BMWs mainly because of the badge, but fortunately the driving dynamics were still the prevalent design factor for most BMW models (go look at a 1980's E30 there is no luxury in it, nor in the E28 5-series). The late 80’s BMW buying spree begat Lexus, Infinity, and Acura, who decided there was high profitability in expensive (nee "Luxury") automobiles.

BMW has been chasing them for a long time now. Lexus gained market share by adding amenities to their cars that had nothing to do with driving, but all to do with luxury; and the 90%’ers who now own BMWs appreciate the Lexus luxury, which is why BMW is chasing the Lexus customer (such as Boltjames). Now that BMW is following suit some of us long-time BMW owners don’t like it, we've lost "our" car company to the Lexus-appreciating badge-whores. As I said previously, for the 3-series to come standard with an automatic transmission, and the manual transmission is an option is blasphemy to the BMW aficionado, who grew up with the brand in the 70’s and 80’s.

The things that matter to me that BMW pioneered: anti-dive braking suspension, anti-squat acceleration suspension, steering turn-in, steering that traces the road, braking dynamics that allow for excellent brake modulation, the ability to trail-brake into closing-radius turns, good outward visibility, orange instrument lighting that optimizes outward night driving and reduces eye fatigue, effective headlight illumination, just to name a few. All of these things were BMW traits that other cars didn’t have back in the 1970’s and ‘80s; they weren’t even design considerations for most car companies. That was the difference about BMW.

Last edited by Efthreeoh; 11-05-2012 at 07:50 AM.