[TargaM2]

[FrankL]

Interesting at 8:48 how he points out that Toyota and BMW kept their options open on EV, PHEV and ICE. Toyota almost said we will do ICE and PHEV while fiddling with hydrogen. The CEO almost said no EV but they left things open for EV. This is the company that launched the Prius many years ago. Kudos to Toyota for the reliability of the Prius too. New technology is seldom that reliable.

Also supposedly the Tesla technology was licensed from Toyo and Toyo held shares in Tesla then eventually sold them off.

The other winner in Harry's book was BMW. I remember the CEO before Oliver Zipse and Zipse saying we will do ICE, EV, and PHEV. Sadly, due to the prior administration extorting VW for $8 billion, America will not get any diesels.

[Sedoy]

Originally Posted by FrankL

...Sadly, due to the prior administration extorting VW for $8 billion, America will not get any diesels.

Do we really need these crazy restricted modern diesels with their EGR/DEF systems in the US, especially while paying a premium price for low-quality US diesel fuel defeating any MPG savings? My mechanic said he won't even touch a modern diesel, he only works on pre-EGR diesels.

[W2k]

This was a much more balanced take on EVs than I would have expected from an old guy standing in a garage full of classic sports cars. I feel like he missed out on an opportunity to take his thinking a few steps further - why specifically is it that some OEMs decided to slow down their EV investments, while others have been successful? What are the differentiating factors?

Yes, BMW wisely have let the customers pick their preferred drivetrain instead of trying to herd everyone towards EVs, but more importantly, BMW BEVs are actually competitive in the market and do not have massive quality issues that drown out many of the benefits.

Take Volvo for example. Very competitive EVs in theory, but plagued with dreadful quality issues. As a result they had to take massive writeoffs on the EX90/ES90 and the EX30 was a stopgap solution built on Chinese cheapo tech that ultimately didn't work out. They're all in on the EX60 now which is also an extremely competent platform, but if they end up with constant software and hardware faults, eventually nobody but hardcore Volvo fans will care.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by W2k

This was a much more balanced take on EVs than I would have expected from an old guy standing in a garage full of classic sports cars. I feel like he missed out on an opportunity to take his thinking a few steps further - why specifically is it that some OEMs decided to slow down their EV investments, while others have been successful? What are the differentiating factors?

Yes, BMW wisely have let the customers pick their preferred drivetrain instead of trying to herd everyone towards EVs, but more importantly, BMW BEVs are actually competitive in the market and do not have massive quality issues that drown out many of the benefits.

Take Volvo for example. Very competitive EVs in theory, but plagued with dreadful quality issues. As a result they had to take massive writeoffs on the EX90/ES90 and the EX30 was a stopgap solution built on Chinese cheapo tech that ultimately didn't work out. They're all in on the EX60 now which is also an extremely competent platform, but if they end up with constant software and hardware faults, eventually nobody but hardcore Volvo fans will care.

If you've followed Harry at all you'd know that he is/has been a fan of EV's. He has had a few in his collection and touted the merits of them. He's also a business man and recognizes that sales will be driven by the market and not what government wants the market to be.

[W2k]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

If you've followed Harry at all you'd know that he is/has been a fan of EV's. He has had a few in his collection and touted the merits of them. He's also a business man and recognizes that sales will be driven by the market and not what government wants the market to be.

Honestly had never heard of him before this video. There are a lot of would-be automotive journalists and (ugh..) "influencers" out there, and it's hard to tell just from the YT recs which ones are the real deal.

Fwiw, I completely agree. Let the market decide. Politicians should keep their grubby mitts off.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by W2k

Honestly had never heard of him before this video. There are a lot of would-be automotive journalists and (ugh..) "influencers" out there, and it's hard to tell just from the YT recs which ones are the real deal.

Fwiw, I completely agree. Let the market decide. Politicians should keep their grubby mitts off.

Harry is the founder of EVO magazine. He does some interesting videos/car reviews. Maybe not everyone's cup of tea but if you're a car guy you should look at his youtube videos.

[DrFerry]

I used to love Harry's channel but find him hard to watch these days. EV subject matter is like listening to paint dry.

[Alfisti]

Yeah he's a pretty balanced guy, not some old fogey living in the past. His take on EV mirrors mine, it's part of the solution, not THE solution.

Interesting note, BMW is now pivoting and will use dedicated platforms moving forward as the big issue with flexible platforms is weight. The future is hybrid, I really feel Toyota has nailed it.

[gonzo]

Countless Joe's on here said the blast EV thing would be a complete trainwreck.
The mindless grifters gonna grift.

Hold my charger cord.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

Do we really need these crazy restricted modern diesels with their EGR/DEF systems in the US, especially while paying a premium price for low-quality US diesel fuel defeating any MPG savings? My mechanic said he won't even touch a modern diesel, he only works on pre-EGR diesels.

I for one would totally support whatever exhaust you want to run, as long as it runs through the cab first.

[M5Rick]

Any news of the end of EV's is good news and a return to sanity.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

I used to love Harry's channel but find him hard to watch these days. EV subject matter is like listening to paint dry.

''Metcalfe has become a globally recognised authority''
I often compare Harry Metcalfe to the legendary late L.J.K.Setright and while their mediums differ they are both recognised for their non-conformist perspectives.

[Altamate]

Originally Posted by RM7

I for one would totally support whatever exhaust you want to run, as long as it runs through the cab first.

Too much CO2 and water in any ICE engine for that. But it would be great for growing plants

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Altamate

Too much CO2 and water in any ICE engine for that. But it would be great for growing plants

Nonsense. You can dish what you serve.

[Altamate]

Originally Posted by RM7

Nonsense. You can dish what you serve.

High school chemistry

[jaffles]

Reckon governance around the globe is struggling with energy, let alone roll out a ev charging network to replace a fuel network.

Reckon after Donny mentioned Drill Baby Drill a lot of car manufacturers dropped their R&D and production with EVs.

Reckon the current oil wars, take overs, and talk of more takeovers along with skyrocketing fuel prices will ignite interest in EVs like never before.
Reckon interest in solar and batteries will explode.
Reckon China is laughing and rubbing their hands together.
Reckon Governance around the globe will be renewing their view on renewables and infrastructure to run a country that relies a lot less on oil and gas.

Reckon if ol mate thinks the ICE industry is under threat due to Net 0. Reckon it is regardless as China can produce what most people want for 1/3 the price and that's progress.

Reckon its going to come down to the US cutting China's oil supply, and how China responds to that. Even with oil the US are never going to match China's labour.

[LH44]

A Whole Foods near me recently removed 4 EV charging spaces it had right out front.

The world is changing.

[jaffles]

Originally Posted by LH44

A Whole Foods near me recently removed 4 EV charging spaces it had right out front.

The world is changing.

It sure is. Elon once said when he was mates with Donny, a 100 x 100 mile solar farm would power America. How straight forward is that.

Its simple, clean, quiet, virtually set and forget and the cows can wander around under it. BUT if you do that, start pondering on infrastructure, jobs, families, communities and their existence. Think to a large degree EVs have not taken off due to pushback on change from small minded commentators. Humans hate change generally and there is truth in EVs will be disruptive to existing norms, and certainly redirect who is making money from automobiles. Al with jobs, community trust and truth, and energy draw is no different in change but does not effect the oil and auto industry. So redirection of money is not there besides the ol library, book shop or hard copy publisher.

Whole Foods could make there own energy from roof space, but also do business with the grid supplier for X amount of energy to be sold at Y to attract customers to sell or buy energy as way to offer deals and discounts for food shopping. But we have just not worked that out on mass. A few cents of at the gas station if you shop at Whole Foods is where it stopped.

If anything Formula 1 may be the ice breaker. Hi performance cars still running pistons for old school infrastructure and repair/parts industries. But greater power and extended range with batteries to slowly break the ice and allow change to be accepted in a race (humans) who generally push back on it. The oil company still exists and has tentacles in renewables along the whole supply chain. Plus establish an easing of demand for oil or greater stabilization/control of who's supplying the product.

Think also people have tried to fit EVs into a gas model. EVs don't go to a fuel station and charge. They are best at up loading and downloading charge from anywhere they can sit for 30 minutes and trade energy, not just consume like ICE do. It allows the owner (shop, car driver, grid) to have some say and control of choice over what they pay or get for energy. Gas is just all one way from companies who bully the market.

[Altamate]

If I was prepared/comfortable/willing to spend the money to own four vehicles, I/we now own 3 (my truck, wife’s BMW and a toy/ hobby car) one could be EV, but until fast charging is more available and range is increased some more, no thank you. And I make that decision all while we have enough solar panels on our home to completely power our home and charge an EV for free.

[Higgs Boson]

Originally Posted by Altamate

If I was prepared/comfortable/willing to spend the money to own four vehicles, I/we now own 3 (my truck, wife’s BMW and a toy/ hobby car) one could be EV, but until fast charging is more available and range is increased some more, no thank you. And I make that decision all while we have enough solar panels on our home to completely power our home and charge an EV for free.

we are on the same page, 60 solar panels, 4 of the largest backup batteries (most you can get on our system) on the house, 3x 220 plugs in the garages, wife tried an electric car as her daily a few years ago and charged it at home each night, she is not a car person, still went back to ICE, now has a highlander hybrid (not a plug in) which she likes, but she could not get over her concerns with being away from home showing 80 or less miles on the range, the heat in the garage while charging, kids rooms are near the garage, other things like that, whether valid or not, she doesn't want an EV.

for me personally, one of the great appeals of driving is having the intake and exhaust valves open at the same time. a car can appeal to sight, sound, smell, and touch. most EV's have no sound or smell appeal and limited visual appeal, as an enthusiast, they just don't do anything for me. and whether that's "resistance to change" or not, people buy what they like and want and until EV's are something people like and want none of the other rationalization and justification matters.