02-17-2017, 12:21 PM | #1 |
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HPDE and stock brake pads? (335i/340i)
I did a search, and there doesn't seem to be much info on here about stock pads vs aftermarket pads.
I found some people who say the stock pads are actually ok on the track, as long as you aren't going all-out, but I would still feel better with slightly upgraded pads, it's a small price for a bit more safety/margin for error. The question is, anyone who has driven the stock M Sport brakes w/ oem pads and with aftermarket, how do they compare? OEM Vs. EBC Redstuff OEM Vs. EBC Yellowstuff Redstuff/yellowstuff vs Pagid RS29s OEM Vs. Carbotech 1521s Specifically with regards to fade resistance and brake feel/modulation. My car has the 'track handling package' m sport brakes. So, same calipers as the M Performance brake kit, but the blank rotors, not slotted/dimpled. Pagid seems to recommend using slotted/dimpled rotors with their pads, so I don't think those are a good option unless I want to spend the money for slotted rotors right now, which I didn't budget for this spring, so I'd rather not. I've used Carbotech bobcats (discontinued) and 1521s on previous cars (including at the track) and never experienced fade, but the 1521s were higher-dust/noise than I'd like to use, and I'm ideally looking for a 'street' pad that will still be an upgrade over OEM on the track. Other than dust/noise, the 1521s were awesome. I also used hawk HPSs two cars ago, but I didn't find good info about Hawk's that fit this car. I'm only likely to do one HPDE weekend this year, but when I get out into the countryside, I can get the brakes hot enough to feel the difference between 'street' pads and ones that work better at temperature, so if the pads aren't too noisy/dusty, I'd like to keep them on year-round. Since I've only had the car since November, I haven't had the opportunity to get a real feel for the stock pads yet. As for the EBC pads.. I haven't used any EBC pads myself, but I've seen them recommended elsewhere. It was a little tricky to confirm the part #s for my car, but I'm pretty sure these are the brake pad shapes (FMSI #) for M sport brakes: D1609 front D1656 rear Can anyone confirm these? EBC has both Redstuff and Yellowstuff available in those shapes. Carbotech can generally provide any shape in any compound they sell. |
02-17-2017, 02:38 PM | #2 |
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Never heard anything good about EBC. I'd avoid.
Hawk has pads in these shapes, if you are only doing a single track day but want something more performance oriented I'd recommend the Hawk 5.0 as its a low dust pad that can handle track days without fading, its the replacement of the HP. The Street Race is the new HPS but beware, very dusty and noisy. Front – HB765x.664 (D1609) Available compounds – HPS 5.0 (B), DTC-60 (G), Street/Race (R), DTC-30 (W), DTC-70 (U) Rear – HB766x.624 (D1656) Available compounds – HPS 5.0 (B), DTC-60 (G), Street/Race (R), DTC-70 (U) Im leaning towards running the 5.0's on the street and DTC 60's for track days this summer.
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02-17-2017, 07:56 PM | #3 | ||
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1. Stock M Sport pads 2. Stock M3/M4 pads 3. Pagid RSL1 or RSL29 pads. One of these is actually available as an BMW OEM pad. For a beginner to beginner intermediate HPDE student, the stock M3/M4 pads should be sufficient. |
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02-18-2017, 08:19 AM | #4 | ||
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And as I noted above, Pagid recommends not using their pads without slotted/drilled/dimpled rotors, which changes the budget for the brake upgrade considerably, so I don't think I'm going to go that route. |
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02-18-2017, 09:56 AM | #5 | ||
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http://www.pagidracing.com/informati...formation.html Quote:
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02-18-2017, 11:41 AM | #6 | ||
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https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-3...f87-m2/?pdk=AQ Quote:
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02-26-2017, 05:20 AM | #7 |
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Last year I did 1 Auto cross and 3 track days with my 2016 328i with M sport brakes
Never had any brake fade issues Next time I am going to swap out the brake fluid but that is it I have confidence in the M sport brake pads |
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02-26-2017, 02:44 PM | #8 |
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Thanks XKxRome0ox and good to know the M brakes work on track without fading. Wonder what the boiling point is for the BMW stock brake fluid. Generally, when at the track my go-to was Motul. Tried others yet Motul worked great and felt the best for my braking 'style'.
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03-02-2017, 09:59 PM | #9 |
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Porterfield R4-S definitely have more heat resistance than OEM M Sport for HDPE; and at least half the dust (probably even less). The downside is a more-expensive pad; and a very slight compromise in cold pad performance. This is what I run as my all-around pads.
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03-04-2017, 08:48 AM | #10 | |||
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Any F3x cars with the 4-piston caliper up front can handle a 1x/yr HPDE event. It's not like you're going full out, non-stop for hours on end.
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03-18-2017, 08:56 PM | #11 |
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I have a 328i with the M-Sport and Track Handling packages. I was able to get over 20 track sessions (25 minutes each) out of the factory pads before having to change pads. Mix of 1.7 mile and 3.1 mile track configs at Motorsport Ranch in Cresson TX so a good mix of braking zones. The factory pads held up extremely well and had minimal fade. I did change the brake fluid to Motul RBF600 prior to tracking the car.
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04-24-2017, 11:23 AM | #12 |
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What about a 340i with the msport package but no track package? Similar suggestions as above or different pads?
I didn't order the track package because I didn't think I'd need it, but now I slightly regret it as my first HPDEs are coming up.
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04-24-2017, 05:48 PM | #13 |
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I see you're in cinci - you doing the Memorial Day weekend event at Mid-Ohio? That was what I made this thread for, but life has gotten in the way and I don't think I'll make it.
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04-24-2017, 08:57 PM | #14 | |
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If not mid-ohio in May, then I'd like to be there in July (hopefully both!). After my two-day car control course at the BMW Performance Center last year, I want to get on the track a few times this year if possible. I want to do one track day and then look at a square setup, probably 18"x8.5 apex with some sort of tire. My concern right now is braking. I didn't order the track package because i had to cut something from my build and that was it. Now i'm wondering how much I need those track brakes or if my msport brakes will be ok. And if not, how much it will be to retrofit the track brakes. All good problems to have
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04-25-2017, 09:58 AM | #15 | |
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I did a 3-day event at mid-ohio a couple years ago in a tuned VW GLI. Only 3250 pounds, so noticeably lighter than the F30, and therefor easier on the brakes.. but in my case, with carbotech 1521 pads all around and the motul DOT5.1 fluid, brakes were not the weak point, my all-season tires were. I was dead set on doing the memorial day event, but only wanted to budget for the brake pads/fluid this year, and go with the staggered setup. Really, the staggered setup is probably fine for a beginner, it will encourage understeer instead of oversteer, which is safer when you're learning and fuck up more often. Mid ohio is a good course though. I did already know my car well, but the only place on that track that scared me at all was the end of the back straight before I got to trust my brakes. If you don't go faster there than you've ever been in your car before, you're doing some very illegal stuff on the road... and then there's a downhill 90-degree right at the end of it. lol |
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04-28-2017, 09:34 AM | #16 | |
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I wish we had more tracks in the area. Any suggestions?
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04-28-2017, 12:14 PM | #17 | |
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Being from northeast ohio, the only other track I know of is east of Cleveland, so I doubt you'd be interested in that drive (and from what I hear, it's kind've a shitty surface, and definitely a much smaller track). |
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05-15-2017, 06:47 PM | #18 | |
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05-21-2017, 07:42 PM | #20 | |
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Having never done this before, any pointers on what I should bring? I'm swapping the BMW OEM brake fluid for Motul RBF600 but running stock pads for now. I need to get a few more track days in before I decide if I want to spend money on the BBK. On the list is: Racing jack Extra oil Extra brake fluid Race helmet Chips, soft drinks, water bottles, lunch meat, bread, etc for food while there Stock S001 Tires Torque wrench and a few choice tools Not bringing: Extra tires Extra brake pads And then other comfort items. As i'm in the novice class, I'm not expecting to go through a set of brake pads or tires. Anything else a novice should bring?
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05-22-2017, 05:01 AM | #21 | |
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06-12-2017, 11:55 AM | #22 |
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I have done a few days at VIR and NCCAR with the stock pads and fluid. (msport SH2NA) brakes no fade or other issues. I am flushing with stock fluid to comply with event rules.
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