F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > 2012-2019 BMW 3 and 4-Series Forums > General F30 Sedan / F32 Coupe / F36 Gran Coupe Forum > xDrive vs RWD...
VIBE Motorsports
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-05-2017, 03:04 PM   #67
chaungo
=D
chaungo's Avatar
Canada
933
Rep
1,685
Posts

Drives: 13' 335ix
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Quebec

iTrader: (4)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by metallicpea View Post
Of course there are exceptions, but on this planet, a vast majority won't get stuck with RWD and good snows. I get more snow here than the average cold weather states in the US, and have not gotten stuck in snow on RWD and snows in the 25 years I have been running such a combo.

You and I have disagreed on this topic before. But my short statement is still, unless you get extreme snow (I'll give you 30cm per week) or have snow combined with hills. I would always buy RWD. AWD gives most drivers more confidence than they should have to go, then get into trouble when turning or stopping at speed when it is much more dangerous.

What tires do you run in the winter?
Michelin PA4

Oh I know, I agree with you on that, lots of snow+hills= AWD, normal/more than average snow+minimum hills= Any WD with good snows.

The reason why I chose performance winters is because I tend to drive to cities that have less snow for the holidays and once a month to see family and friends. I see more dry and wet and slush there than I see snow. Where I live, there's alot of snow but they plow the main roads pretty good but the parkings and entryways aren't and the PA4 are way more than enough with AWD. And once it snows alot, there are times it doesn't (normally in feb/march) where it's just extremely cold (-20C to -40C) and it doesn't snow anymore so the roads become dry.
__________________
2013 335i xDrive
Bootmod3 S2, Pure Stage 2, Pure Inlet, GFB DV+, AFE Pro Dry S Drop-in Filter, ER CP/TIC CP, ER Catless DP, ATM FMIC, Borla ATAK, Dinan Springs, Dinan Shockware

Last edited by chaungo; 12-05-2017 at 03:11 PM.
Appreciate 0
      12-05-2017, 03:30 PM   #68
metallicpea
Major
metallicpea's Avatar
647
Rep
1,239
Posts

Drives: 320i ZSP & E46 M3 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Chicagoland

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by YuminNuman View Post
I will say the suspension on this car is really pedestrian. It body rolls and understeers like a pig. For some people it probably handles 'amazing' but from what I'm used to it's closer to a cadillac. It definitely needs some sway bars, slightly stiffer springs, and high end dampers. Probably bushings as well.

The fact that a 300+hp car would come with 225 wide tires is also a joke.
The x-drive is working against you on this. Heavier, taller and softer don't help.
__________________
2002 325i sport - sold
2009 135i M sport - sold
2009 550i M sport - sold
2005 M3 6MT Jet Black w/Cinnamon
2016 F30 320i ZSP
Appreciate 0
      12-05-2017, 03:32 PM   #69
metallicpea
Major
metallicpea's Avatar
647
Rep
1,239
Posts

Drives: 320i ZSP & E46 M3 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Chicagoland

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaungo View Post
Michelin PA4

Oh I know, I agree with you on that, lots of snow+hills= AWD, normal/more than average snow+minimum hills= Any WD with good snows.

The reason why I chose performance winters is because I tend to drive to cities that have less snow for the holidays and once a month to see family and friends. I see more dry and wet and slush there than I see snow. Where I live, there's alot of snow but they plow the main roads pretty good but the parkings and entryways aren't and the PA4 are way more than enough with AWD. And once it snows alot, there are times it doesn't (normally in feb/march) where it's just extremely cold (-20C to -40C) and it doesn't snow anymore so the roads become dry.
With deep snow, snows and performance snows aren't too different. Performance snows really suffer on the ice and slushy stuff. Not as much grip when the road surface is really slick.

I've not run those. Tread design looks great, but usually with performance snows the actual rubber compound isn't as soft or porous - which is what gives the grip on cold hard, slick surfaces. It is also what makes the tires soft and wayward on dry pavement and what makes them wear fast. Always a give and take.
__________________
2002 325i sport - sold
2009 135i M sport - sold
2009 550i M sport - sold
2005 M3 6MT Jet Black w/Cinnamon
2016 F30 320i ZSP

Last edited by metallicpea; 12-05-2017 at 03:37 PM.
Appreciate 0
      12-05-2017, 03:52 PM   #70
YuminNuman
Second Lieutenant
YuminNuman's Avatar
101
Rep
205
Posts

Drives: 17 340ix 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: US

iTrader: (0)

I've gotten stuck with AWD and snows twice. Then again I don't have the best judgement and often try to rush around when I should just stay in. "I think we got this..."

But yeah, drifting is dumb, and the stock chassis is way softer than I expected. This is far from the best handling car I've ever driven. Well, I don't have sticky tires yet so it's maybe a bit early to say that, but the body roll and overall stiffness of the chassis is

Quote:
Originally Posted by metallicpea View Post
The x-drive is working against you on this. Heavier, taller and softer don't help.
This is true. The second 2 are in the cards for the summer... I'll take a little extra weight. I like the driving characteristics of AWD day to day, winter, and even on the track, so the extra weight is acceptable to me. The chassis can be coaxed a bit .. it needs to. If you want to talk weight on these cars, there's about 400 other places to start cutting from over the drivetrain.
Appreciate 0
      12-05-2017, 04:29 PM   #71
metallicpea
Major
metallicpea's Avatar
647
Rep
1,239
Posts

Drives: 320i ZSP & E46 M3 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Chicagoland

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by YuminNuman View Post
I've gotten stuck with AWD and snows twice. Then again I don't have the best judgement and often try to rush around when I should just stay in. "I think we got this..."

But yeah, drifting is dumb, and the stock chassis is way softer than I expected. This is far from the best handling car I've ever driven. Well, I don't have sticky tires yet so it's maybe a bit early to say that, but the body roll and overall stiffness of the chassis is



This is true. The second 2 are in the cards for the summer... I'll take a little extra weight. I like the driving characteristics of AWD day to day, winter, and even on the track, so the extra weight is acceptable to me. The chassis can be coaxed a bit .. it needs to. If you want to talk weight on these cars, there's about 400 other places to start cutting from over the drivetrain.
For what it is, I am not totally dissapointed with the weight on my F30 (for it's size) Although it is bigger than I would like. My E46 weighed about 3,200 lbs - prob more with sunroof. And my 2016 320i without sunroof is about 3,300 lbs. But, the F30 is a much, much bigger car and has more gadgets on it, so the weight could certainly be worse. That being said, you can hear and feel it in how solid the build of the cars are. E46 was solid, F30 seems thin in comparison. Road noise, door shut, even little things like the glove box. Just not as solid, but so far good enough.
__________________
2002 325i sport - sold
2009 135i M sport - sold
2009 550i M sport - sold
2005 M3 6MT Jet Black w/Cinnamon
2016 F30 320i ZSP

Last edited by metallicpea; 12-05-2017 at 06:25 PM.
Appreciate 0
      12-05-2017, 04:47 PM   #72
YuminNuman
Second Lieutenant
YuminNuman's Avatar
101
Rep
205
Posts

Drives: 17 340ix 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: US

iTrader: (0)

I agree. Relatively speaking, for a $55K USD car it is a rattle trap and there's lots of noise. They definitely cut the overall build quality down at some point. Well, maybe not 'quality' per se but 'solidness' of materials (what's the word I am looking for here...)

My buddy's E46 was much more tank like .. the tightness of the car was noticeably greater.
Appreciate 0
      12-06-2017, 01:32 AM   #73
chaungo
=D
chaungo's Avatar
Canada
933
Rep
1,685
Posts

Drives: 13' 335ix
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Quebec

iTrader: (4)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by metallicpea View Post
With deep snow, snows and performance snows aren't too different. Performance snows really suffer on the ice and slushy stuff. Not as much grip when the road surface is really slick.

I've not run those. Tread design looks great, but usually with performance snows the actual rubber compound isn't as soft or porous - which is what gives the grip on cold hard, slick surfaces. It is also what makes the tires soft and wayward on dry pavement and what makes them wear fast. Always a give and take.
TBH, I believe normal studless snows wear faster on dry pavement than performance do, I assume the performance is slightly more stiff on the dry which will give it slightly better treadlife in the dry, but worst grip on ice, snow.
Appreciate 0
      12-06-2017, 10:30 AM   #74
metallicpea
Major
metallicpea's Avatar
647
Rep
1,239
Posts

Drives: 320i ZSP & E46 M3 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Chicagoland

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaungo View Post
TBH, I believe normal studless snows wear faster on dry pavement than performance do, I assume the performance is slightly more stiff on the dry which will give it slightly better treadlife in the dry, but worst grip on ice, snow.
Sorry my wording was confusing. It made sense to me when I wrote it

Performance snows really suffer on the ice and slushy stuff. Not as much grip when the road surface is really slick because they have a less soft and porous compound. This compound does handle and wear better on dry pavement.

Full (studless) snows have a very soft and porous compound that makes the cold, slick, slushy, icy grip unreal, but also makes them soft and wayward on dry pavement and makes them wear fast - although only if driven many months and run pretty hard. With my limited miles and aggression I get many, many seasons out of a set.
__________________
2002 325i sport - sold
2009 135i M sport - sold
2009 550i M sport - sold
2005 M3 6MT Jet Black w/Cinnamon
2016 F30 320i ZSP

Last edited by metallicpea; 12-06-2017 at 10:37 AM.
Appreciate 1
      12-07-2017, 10:15 AM   #75
metallicpea
Major
metallicpea's Avatar
647
Rep
1,239
Posts

Drives: 320i ZSP & E46 M3 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Chicagoland

iTrader: (1)

So we had our first snow today. Maybe 1/2" to 1" First snow with my half worn Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 on staggered 18" set-up
They are not good in the snow. Worse than I would have thought. My winter set, Blizzak WS70 on 17" square set-up needs to go on tonight.
__________________
2002 325i sport - sold
2009 135i M sport - sold
2009 550i M sport - sold
2005 M3 6MT Jet Black w/Cinnamon
2016 F30 320i ZSP
Appreciate 0
      12-08-2017, 07:04 AM   #76
bri1042
Captain
bri1042's Avatar
290
Rep
913
Posts

Drives: 2016 340ix with stuff
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Portland, OR

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by metallicpea View Post
So we had our first snow today. Maybe 1/2" to 1" First snow with my half worn Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 on staggered 18" set-up
They are not good in the snow. Worse than I would have thought. My winter set, Blizzak WS70 on 17" square set-up needs to go on tonight.
Ah, so it's not just me. Portland doesn't get that cold, we spend most of the winter with temps too high for Winter Tires so I went with All Seasons instead for my winter wheels last year. I picked the A/S 3+ over the DWS06's and ended up driving them through a lot of snow last year. I grew up on the other side of the lake from you and learned to drive on snow before I learned to drive on dry roads. I've gone through a lot of winters with all season tires before I moved west and I was not impressed with the A/S 3+'s last Winter. I like these tires on dry and wet roads, but they are not good in the snow at all.
Appreciate 0
      12-08-2017, 11:04 AM   #77
metallicpea
Major
metallicpea's Avatar
647
Rep
1,239
Posts

Drives: 320i ZSP & E46 M3 6MT
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Chicagoland

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bri1042 View Post
Ah, so it's not just me. Portland doesn't get that cold, we spend most of the winter with temps too high for Winter Tires so I went with All Seasons instead for my winter wheels last year. I picked the A/S 3+ over the DWS06's and ended up driving them through a lot of snow last year. I grew up on the other side of the lake from you and learned to drive on snow before I learned to drive on dry roads. I've gone through a lot of winters with all season tires before I moved west and I was not impressed with the A/S 3+'s last Winter. I like these tires on dry and wet roads, but they are not good in the snow at all.
Mine are not the +. The plus I heard was better, but yeah, not impressed with snow traction. I put the Blizzaks on last night. All good now. Might get snow every day for the next few days and I'm driving into Michigan, so I missed the perfect time by 1 day, but glad I got a feel for these so I know not too push as much next year.

I like how super quiet the Blizzaks are. Makes you realize how much of the interior noise in this car comes from the road/tire noise vs wind noise.

I use the A/S 3s for summer now, but when they are shot I will likely try Firehawk Indy 500. They are inexpensive, look good, good test and customer ratings and might give me a little more steering feel.
__________________
2002 325i sport - sold
2009 135i M sport - sold
2009 550i M sport - sold
2005 M3 6MT Jet Black w/Cinnamon
2016 F30 320i ZSP
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:29 AM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST