F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > N55 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > bootmod3 for BMW F series Vehicles - General Discussion
Studio RSR
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-15-2018, 11:02 AM   #1475
Busa1
Captain
Busa1's Avatar
No_Country
270
Rep
795
Posts

Drives: M4 and 435i xDrive M-Sport
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: East Coast

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F30_SixSpeed View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peteman187 View Post
Any Stage 1 OTS 93 octane, N55 guys in here?? How do you like it over stock or MPPK?

I am MPPK + MPE now, I have the cable, just deciding if I should wait until I am stage 2 or flash to stage 1 now.
Stage 1 is more aggressive tune then MPPK. I would flash stage 1 and run it until you decide to get stage 2. Then just flash stage 2.
So its definitely worth it in your opinion? Presently, I have a JB Stage 1, VRSF fmic, ER Charge pipe and a AFE air filter. I'm debating whether its worth the money to go BM3. I know the power delivery is better and such, but will I get that much more power to justify buying it.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      07-15-2018, 11:44 AM   #1476
HKD126
Captain
345
Rep
801
Posts

Drives: 2014 335i, 2009 335xi
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Wisconsin

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Busa1 View Post
So its definitely worth it in your opinion? Presently, I have a JB Stage 1, VRSF fmic, ER Charge pipe and a AFE air filter. I'm debating whether its worth the money to go BM3. I know the power delivery is better and such, but will I get that much more power to justify buying it.
I wouldn’t buy it for the power for stage 1. I would buy it for the drivability and piece of mind.
Appreciate 0
      07-16-2018, 09:41 AM   #1477
enemigo13
Lieutenant
247
Rep
500
Posts

Drives: F32 LCI 440xi citrineblack
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: LT

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaungo View Post
I don't know about you, but daily it runs great. If I need to speed up to merge on the ramp I can just downshift and I'm fine. Even from a dig it's great. My dragy recorded time was 3.9 seconds.

You really have to drive a PS2 car to see why it's so great. Either way I'd rather trade low end power for top end.
I’m not about taste, some guys are ok with turbos starting spool up at 5000rpm, just it’s not that great in daily drive- I hate turbo lag. and ps2 has noticeable later spool up than ps1 or stock ewg turbo. thats why alpina b3/b3s uses biturbo setup on n55 rather than single bigger compressor/turbine wheels like ps2. though it’s not even possible to use ps2 full potential on pump fuel as n55 hpfp is piece of crap, so probably it would be a good idea to have something in between ps1 and ps2. I dont like methanol/port injections, jb4’s etc, so probably it would be a good idea to move to s55 or at least to b58 platform..
Appreciate 0
      07-16-2018, 11:17 AM   #1478
F30_SixSpeed
Captain
F30_SixSpeed's Avatar
1169
Rep
969
Posts

Drives: 335i M Sport
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: New Jersey

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Busa1 View Post
So its definitely worth it in your opinion? Presently, I have a JB Stage 1, VRSF fmic, ER Charge pipe and a AFE air filter. I'm debating whether its worth the money to go BM3. I know the power delivery is better and such, but will I get that much more power to justify buying it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HKD126 View Post
I wouldn’t buy it for the power for stage 1. I would buy it for the drivability and piece of mind.
What he said ^^
__________________

335i M Sport 6MT || PS2 Turbo, FBO, XDI-35 HPFP, BM3, KW, MP BBK, OEM+
INSTAGRAM || BUILD THREAD
Appreciate 0
      07-16-2018, 11:27 AM   #1479
F30_SixSpeed
Captain
F30_SixSpeed's Avatar
1169
Rep
969
Posts

Drives: 335i M Sport
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: New Jersey

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by enemigo13 View Post
I’m not about taste, some guys are ok with turbos starting spool up at 5000rpm, just it’s not that great in daily drive- I hate turbo lag. and ps2 has noticeable later spool up than ps1 or stock ewg turbo. thats why alpina b3/b3s uses biturbo setup on n55 rather than single bigger compressor/turbine wheels like ps2. though it’s not even possible to use ps2 full potential on pump fuel as n55 hpfp is piece of crap, so probably it would be a good idea to have something in between ps1 and ps2. I dont like methanol/port injections, jb4’s etc, so probably it would be a good idea to move to s55 or at least to b58 platform..
My PS2 spools like stock turbo (maybe a touch more lag WOT - but that is welcomed as it puts less stress on my clutch and drivetrain as opposed to hitting 500+ lbs trq instantly like my stocker did... also helps with wheelspin down low). Its great for daily driving. A lot has to do with tuning for it. A majority of your post is nonsense, I can't take it seriously. PS2 starting to spool at 5k rpm? Where are you getting your information from? Have you ever drove a PS2 N55? I think your feedback would change quite a bit if you did. Basically why PS2 appeals to so many people is it has stock like spool but after 5k rpm it wakes up. Im seeing 50-75+ whp more from 5-5.5k to redline over my PWG stocker. I'm on stock fuel system on 93 at this time. Roughly 17-17.5 psi seems to be the limit for the HPFP.
__________________

335i M Sport 6MT || PS2 Turbo, FBO, XDI-35 HPFP, BM3, KW, MP BBK, OEM+
INSTAGRAM || BUILD THREAD
Appreciate 1
      07-16-2018, 11:28 AM   #1480
MTWO
Captain
473
Rep
931
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Innisfil

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by enemigo13 View Post
I’m not about taste, some guys are ok with turbos starting spool up at 5000rpm, just it’s not that great in daily drive- I hate turbo lag. and ps2 has noticeable later spool up than ps1 or stock ewg turbo. thats why alpina b3/b3s uses biturbo setup on n55 rather than single bigger compressor/turbine wheels like ps2. though it’s not even possible to use ps2 full potential on pump fuel as n55 hpfp is piece of crap, so probably it would be a good idea to have something in between ps1 and ps2. I dont like methanol/port injections, jb4’s etc, so probably it would be a good idea to move to s55 or at least to b58 platform..
5k to spool a ps2? There must be some mechanical issue like a boost leak
Appreciate 0
      07-16-2018, 11:52 AM   #1481
enemigo13
Lieutenant
247
Rep
500
Posts

Drives: F32 LCI 440xi citrineblack
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: LT

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTWO View Post
5k to spool a ps2? There must be some mechanical issue like a boost leak
just an example, read my previous post ps2 spools up at 3000-3500 depending on gear.
Appreciate 0
      07-16-2018, 12:01 PM   #1482
MTWO
Captain
473
Rep
931
Posts

Drives: M2
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Innisfil

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by enemigo13 View Post
just an example, read my previous post ps2 spools up at 3000-3500 depending on gear.
Is that too late for you for spool though?
Appreciate 0
      07-16-2018, 01:05 PM   #1483
enemigo13
Lieutenant
247
Rep
500
Posts

Drives: F32 LCI 440xi citrineblack
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: LT

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTWO View Post
Is that too late for you for spool though?
yes, sure, why do you think most modern cars manufacturers claim max torque 1750-5000-5500rpm flat? because old subaru wrx times are over. nobody wants any noticeable turbo lag, that’s why s55 uses 2 turbos and not one big. I understand that you can kickdown anytime but with more low end torque car feels way less heavy and 8AT gearbox lets you use this torque without switching few gears back and you overtake other cars in a blink while not reving a lot. it’s not a rocket science to mount big turbo on engine, but to make it powerful at high rpms while still having great low end torque is not so easy as it looks
Appreciate 0
      07-16-2018, 02:26 PM   #1484
lens
Colonel
lens's Avatar
2067
Rep
2,638
Posts

Drives: 2018 340i xDrive
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Halifax NS, Canada

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by enemigo13 View Post
yes, sure, why do you think most modern cars manufacturers claim max torque 1750-5000-5500rpm flat? because old subaru wrx times are over. nobody wants any noticeable turbo lag, that’s why s55 uses 2 turbos and not one big. I understand that you can kickdown anytime but with more low end torque car feels way less heavy and 8AT gearbox lets you use this torque without switching few gears back and you overtake other cars in a blink while not reving a lot. it’s not a rocket science to mount big turbo on engine, but to make it powerful at high rpms while still having great low end torque is not so easy as it looks
More torque down low means more shit will break. You want a linear power band. Max torque when tuned that low in the rpm means you're gonna blow up your transmission and probably snap driveshafts.
Appreciate 0
      07-16-2018, 04:13 PM   #1485
Korpraali
New Member
Finland
2
Rep
6
Posts

Drives: BMW F30 335i x-Drive
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Finland

iTrader: (0)

Hello! I flash my car today with Bootmod3 and I'am newbie this petrol car tuning (old diesel guy ) So Im running stage 2 93 octane, I have FMIC, straight downpipe and charge pipe changed. My car is F30 335i xDrive 2012 PWG. Now I test some logging and post it here, so can You tell if something is wrong.

http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5b4cfbc8d10b4304ffb15726
http://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5b4cfe88d10b4304ffb1572c

Here is link. So what You think?

Thank you!
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2018, 01:07 AM   #1486
enemigo13
Lieutenant
247
Rep
500
Posts

Drives: F32 LCI 440xi citrineblack
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: LT

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaungo View Post
More torque down low means more shit will break. You want a linear power band. Max torque when tuned that low in the rpm means you're gonna blow up your transmission and probably snap driveshafts.
yes yes, tell it to m4 gts owners who have 600Nm stock from low end.
talking about transmission- this 8AT is designed to hold 550nm, so ~600nm is not a problem, no matter what rpm range.
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2018, 01:13 AM   #1487
FastF30
Lieutenant Colonel
FastF30's Avatar
521
Rep
1,288
Posts

Drives: 2015 335i xdrive Msport Mbrake
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Middle of the Road

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by enemigo13 View Post
yes yes, tell it to m4 gts owners who have 600Nm stock from low end.
talking about transmission- this 8AT is designed to hold 550nm, so ~600nm is not a problem, no matter what rpm range.
I'm considering a PS2... I'm thinking you guys with PS2's now are probably running Race core intercoolers... I'm thinking if I stick with my current 5" stepcore that the driveablity here in the city shouldn't really be an issue... don't plan on tracking the car soooo...
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2018, 02:20 AM   #1488
SeanWRT
Colonel
SeanWRT's Avatar
3179
Rep
2,577
Posts

Drives: E90 M3 & F87 M2
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Shanghai

iTrader: (1)

This is a BM3 thread. Need a new thread for turbo physics. I'll provide the following, hoping to close the debate.

All you guys need to know:
1) PS2 works well with EWG OTS.
2) PS2 PWG is a PITA to tune. PWG OTS 2H is a hit and miss. In most cases, you need custom and hugh amount of time to dial in PWG PS2 on a flash only basis, if ever possible at all. Many tuners just gave in to piggyback stack up.
3) PS2 has noticeable lag compared to stock turbo. No question asked. No ego stuff. No whitewash. It's a matter of if the power is worth the lag, which it is in my opinion.

I've built, driven, tested and logged PS2. There is no denying lag be felt on the road and be seen from log. I've also experienced almost all the hybrid turbos that's ever available to N55s all the way from PS1, PS2, Dinan, VTTO STG2, TTE460 and G Power 500 (my current setup).

On pump gas, PS2 seems to flow more than octane can support, in other words, you can happily leave headroom, making less heat for power consistency.

See below thread that physically compares PS2 to other turbos. PS2 is as big as a hybrid can get. Take a look if you want.
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1501569
__________________
Lemania 2320
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2018, 05:19 AM   #1489
lens
Colonel
lens's Avatar
2067
Rep
2,638
Posts

Drives: 2018 340i xDrive
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Halifax NS, Canada

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by enemigo13 View Post
yes yes, tell it to m4 gts owners who have 600Nm stock from low end.
talking about transmission- this 8AT is designed to hold 550nm, so ~600nm is not a problem, no matter what rpm range.
The 8AT is designed to hold 350 ft/lbs, it can probably hold 500 max. . And M4 have different driveshafts (carbon fiber) and they run DCT. Not to mention the S55 is different from N55.
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2018, 10:34 AM   #1490
enemigo13
Lieutenant
247
Rep
500
Posts

Drives: F32 LCI 440xi citrineblack
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: LT

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaungo View Post
The 8AT is designed to hold 350 ft/lbs, it can probably hold 500 max. . And M4 have different driveshafts (carbon fiber) and they run DCT. Not to mention the S55 is different from N55.
n55 or 8at will not be damaged from 600Nm at 2500rpm. tested many times.
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2018, 11:32 AM   #1491
cookiesowns
;)
cookiesowns's Avatar
587
Rep
898
Posts

Drives: X5 45e, 535i N54, X3 N55
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: West

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanWRT View Post
This is a BM3 thread. Need a new thread for turbo physics. I'll provide the following, hoping to close the debate.

All you guys need to know:
1) PS2 works well with EWG OTS.
2) PS2 PWG is a PITA to tune. PWG OTS 2H is a hit and miss. In most cases, you need custom and hugh amount of time to dial in PWG PS2 on a flash only basis, if ever possible at all. Many tuners just gave in to piggyback stack up.
3) PS2 has noticeable lag compared to stock turbo. No question asked. No ego stuff. No whitewash. It's a matter of if the power is worth the lag, which it is in my opinion.

I've built, driven, tested and logged PS2. There is no denying lag be felt on the road and be seen from log. I've also experienced almost all the hybrid turbos that's ever available to N55s all the way from PS1, PS2, Dinan, VTTO STG2, TTE460 and G Power 500 (my current setup).

On pump gas, PS2 seems to flow more than octane can support, in other words, you can happily leave headroom, making less heat for power consistency.

See below thread that physically compares PS2 to other turbos. PS2 is as big as a hybrid can get. Take a look if you want.
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1501569
  1. Yup. Even custom turbos EWG works well with OTS. That's the beauty of the Electronic actuator when properly calibrated to stock routines
  2. Actually.... if a tuner has had properly developed maps for a PS2 PWG car.... it's trivial to dial in boost control for PWG.
  3. I feel lag is a bit subjective and it is entirely based on the tune as well. It's very possible to gain 1-300rpm of "spool" with proper tuning. While I haven't driven a PS2 PWG car personally... my EWG M2 seems to spool best around 3K rpm as well. I'm not a fan of mashing it down low in all honesty so if turbo can hit peak spool in about 200-500rpm depending on which gear that's perfect for me.
__________________
BM3, MHD, ECUTek Calibrator | N55/S58 specialist | 2023 X5 45e Frozen Marina Bay Blue
Appreciate 2
akgambino271.50
Dfahmy138.50
      07-17-2018, 09:42 PM   #1492
SeanWRT
Colonel
SeanWRT's Avatar
3179
Rep
2,577
Posts

Drives: E90 M3 & F87 M2
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Shanghai

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cookiesowns View Post
  1. Yup. Even custom turbos EWG works well with OTS. That's the beauty of the Electronic actuator when properly calibrated to stock routines
  2. Actually.... if a tuner has had properly developed maps for a PS2 PWG car.... it's trivial to dial in boost control for PWG.
  3. I feel lag is a bit subjective and it is entirely based on the tune as well. It's very possible to gain 1-300rpm of "spool" with proper tuning. While I haven't driven a PS2 PWG car personally... my EWG M2 seems to spool best around 3K rpm as well. I'm not a fan of mashing it down low in all honesty so if turbo can hit peak spool in about 200-500rpm depending on which gear that's perfect for me.
Joe, thanks for the input. I agree but want to add:

1) Lag is a perception but there is no denying of its existence. I know many cannot live with A45 AMG sluggishness while the other feel no lag at all. However, to put things in the context, we did back to back log testing of stock turbo and PS2. With same car, same map, same fuel, same hardware, same testing condition or same everything except for turbo, there is a 800-1000rpm spool delay with PS2 on 3rd gear, compared to stock turbo. And we certainly feel that 1k rpm power loss on the road, most of the time.

2) Tuning makes a difference. But no kidding, turbo is mechanically driven by exhaust gas momentum. Nobody half opens waste gate to slow it down when you're calling it out. Some map would progressively reduce duty circle when boost gets close to target, but that's about it. However, going from off boost, all maps do absolutely the same thing - spool up the stupid snail as quick as possible. That's why tuning will not make a laggy turbo feel any less laggy.

3) Turbo responsiveness and power band are two entirely different things.
It's a common mistake to think a quick spool = low end torque surge. Truth is, it's the down low target that dictates down low torque. And turbo responsiveness dictate how quick you get to that target.
Another common misunderstanding is downshifting to higher rpm makes instant power. Not remotely true. Turbo always needs time to spool up, only at a higher rpm it spools quicker, something you don't get to see from dyno chart.
Hence the bloody fact - in real world turbo responsiveness affects power delivery throughout the band.
Turbo engineering spares no effort to achieve zero response time to any pedal input like with NA - instantly power anywhere, and there is no torque surge anywhere.

Let's close the topic. PS2 is laggy but is powerful enough to justify the lag, in my opinion.
__________________
Lemania 2320

Last edited by SeanWRT; 07-17-2018 at 10:09 PM..
Appreciate 1
      07-18-2018, 03:13 PM   #1493
Bmwman325
Private First Class
38
Rep
172
Posts

Drives: 2015 MG CR 335 XI 6SP
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Missouri

iTrader: (0)

Just got my fabspeed catted DP installed today, have chargepipe and FMIC installed already as well, I'm about to get Bootmod3 I want to run 93 Oct, OTS Stage 2 Map

Question: Will the tune make my car louder?
__________________
Wagner Competition Intercooler, ER Chargepipe, Fabspeed Catted Downpipe, Bootmod3 OTS Stage 2 93 oct
Appreciate 0
      07-18-2018, 03:36 PM   #1494
JaredG_F30
Lieutenant Colonel
JaredG_F30's Avatar
1105
Rep
1,499
Posts

Drives: 2014 335i, M-Sport, Manual
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Raleigh, NC

iTrader: (0)

It depends.

Cold start off - quieter on initial startup

Burbles - anywhere from none to aggressive. none is very quiet. aggressive is very loud. these are user selectable.

cruising - no difference over stock form what I can tell. the DP will make your exhaust note louder regardless of tune.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmwman325 View Post
Just got my fabspeed catted DP installed today, have chargepipe and FMIC installed already as well, I'm about to get Bootmod3 I want to run 93 Oct, OTS Stage 2 Map

Question: Will the tune make my car louder?
__________________

2014 F30 335i, M-Sport, 6MT, V804s, custom exhaust, CTS Turbo Intake & IC, FTP CP, VRSF DP, TMS Strut Brace, BM3 Stg 2, AEM WMI, H&R Sport Springs (381 whp, 429 wtq on Cali 91oct before WMI).
SPI Films Blog/DIY Vids
Appreciate 1
FSociety3810.00
      07-18-2018, 04:24 PM   #1495
TK335iMSPT
Lieutenant
TK335iMSPT's Avatar
United_States
299
Rep
479
Posts

Drives: F30 335ixdrive M Sport
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North Jersey

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmwman325 View Post
Just got my fabspeed catted DP installed today, have chargepipe and FMIC installed already as well, I'm about to get Bootmod3 I want to run 93 Oct, OTS Stage 2 Map

Question: Will the tune make my car louder?
What exhaust do you have with the DP? How much louder is it and how do you like it? Any drone?
Appreciate 0
      07-18-2018, 10:09 PM   #1496
TSA8151
Private First Class
58
Rep
141
Posts

Drives: 2013 F30 335i msport
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Maryland

iTrader: (0)

When you select a map how long does it usually take for bootmod3 to import the tune? I selected a tune and its stuck on importing....please wait.

I'm going to try again in the morning. How long does the import process usually take?
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:48 AM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST