[proTUNING Freaks]

UPDATE:
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1755989

[TK335iMSPT]

2014 335i Xdrive Stock Tune 59k miles
VRSF 5inch HD intercooler
VRSF Charge Pipe
OEM Plugs/Coils gapped to .030 with 4k miles on them
AFE Pro dry drop in air filter
Running BP 93oct gas

For anyone that is curious. Here are some logs of the stock flash on my N55. Ive been chasing timing/knocking issues and figured I would flash to stock and see what those logs looked like. To my surprise, the logs are just as bad as when flashed stage 1 91/93oct. I am still seeing a knock in 2 out 3 runs and timing is still pretty inconsistent. If anyone has stock logs of their N55, Id be curious to see them. Its worth noting that I still get breaking up from 6500 to 7000 RPM on the stock flash. I also cannot believe how slow the car feels now compared to stage 1 .

Run 1: No knocks/No negative timing.
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f5d...729b7f1676c97c

Run 2: Knock at 3274 RPM.
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f5d...729b7e93a83260

Run 3: Knock at 2542 RPM/ Negative timing at 6495 RPM.
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f5d...0b4330d2388d18

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by TK335iMSPT

2014 335i Xdrive Stock Tune 59k miles
VRSF 5inch HD intercooler
VRSF Charge Pipe
OEM Plugs/Coils gapped to .030 with 4k miles on them
AFE Pro dry drop in air filter
Running BP 93oct gas

For anyone that is curious. Here are some logs of the stock flash on my N55. Ive been chasing timing/knocking issues and figured I would flash to stock and see what those logs looked like. To my surprise, the logs are just as bad as when flashed stage 1 91/93oct. I am still seeing a knock in 2 out 3 runs and timing is still pretty inconsistent. If anyone has stock logs of their N55, Id be curious to see them. Its worth noting that I still get breaking up from 6500 to 7000 RPM on the stock flash. I also cannot believe how slow the car feels now compared to stage 1 .

Run 1: No knocks/No negative timing.
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f5d...729b7f1676c97c

Run 2: Knock at 3274 RPM.
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f5d...729b7e93a83260

Run 3: Knock at 2542 RPM/ Negative timing at 6495 RPM.
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f5d...0b4330d2388d18

The timing in these logs is 'normal', its basically unavoidable to have some amount of timing corrections unless your fuel quality is excellent and/or higher octane than the map you are running. It is surprising that you are getting knocks with only like 6 psi of boost and low IATs though. Could just be that stock map is running aggressive timing until it adapts to your octane.

Did you ever try the colder NGKs with a smaller gap? Your car could be one of those that runs better with those as compared to stock.

Here's all the stock logs that i have for comparison. This is a completely stock car, no mods. I do have logs with stock tune after IC+CP, but that's when i still had a boost leak, so not worth posting i dont think.

It's funny because i haven't looked at these in a really long time, and looking at the 4th gear pull clearly shows how bad timing can be with crappy CA 91 gas. So in comparison i would say your timing is great, lol.

4th: https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/s...25-26-27-28-29

Some 1-4s:
https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/s...&data=3-4-5-20
https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/s...og=0&data=3-20
https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/1...og=0&data=3-20

Unfortunately MHD does not show knock directly but i would say its entirely possible i was getting some...

[TK335iMSPT]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

The timing in these logs is 'normal', its basically unavoidable to have some amount of timing corrections unless your fuel quality is excellent and/or higher octane than the map you are running. It is surprising that you are getting knocks with only like 6 psi of boost and low IATs though. Could just be that stock map is running aggressive timing until it adapts to your octane.

Did you ever try the colder NGKs with a smaller gap? Your car could be one of those that runs better with those as compared to stock.

Here's all the stock logs that i have for comparison. This is a completely stock car, no mods. I do have logs with stock tune after IC+CP, but that's when i still had a boost leak, so not worth posting i dont think.

It's funny because i haven't looked at these in a really long time, and looking at the 4th gear pull clearly shows how bad timing can be with crappy CA 91 gas. So in comparison i would say your timing is great, lol.

4th: https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/s...25-26-27-28-29

Some 1-4s:
https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/s...;data=3-4-5-20
https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/s...&data=3-20
https://datazap.me/u/thejeremyman9/1...&data=3-20

Unfortunately MHD does not show knock directly but i would say its entirely possible i was getting some...

Thank you for posting! I have a bottle of octane booster sitting on my shelf for the next fill up. If that doesn't correct things, the next step is colder plugs with a tighter gap. It's been tough to really get out and log lately, let alone work on the car.

[BMW DRIVEN]

Originally Posted by designatedposter

your RPM did spike at 3400, see photo. to test it, go into 5th gear, and floor at 3000 rpm through 4000 rpm.

Does this look like clutch slip to you too?

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by Joe_F32

Does this look like clutch slip to you too?

Assuming you did not spin the tires or hit a bump, yes, it does, but post the actual datalog so we can look at other parameters.

[akgambino]

Originally Posted by Joe_F32

Does this look like clutch slip to you too?

Eventually PTF should indicate that for stage 2 or higher n55 maps on cars with 6MT upgraded clutch is required. Clutch slip is inevitable on any stage 2 n55 6mt car, don't waste your time trying to chase this down and try to convince yourself it's the tune or bump in the road... your clutch is slipping.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by akgambino

Eventually PTF should indicate that for stage 2 or higher n55 maps on cars with 6MT upgraded clutch is required. Clutch slip is inevitable on any stage 2 n55 6mt car, don't waste your time trying to chase this down and try to convince yourself it's the tune or bump in the road... your clutch is slipping.

Particularly true for stage 2 E30 map, which he is running.

[designatedposter]

Originally Posted by Joe_F32

Does this look like clutch slip to you too?

sure does. you could try the boost reduction feature to prevent this. i believe the feature simply reduces max torque and doesn't actually do a x% decrease in boost across the RPM range.

try the feature and post another log. what's your ambient temperature? i'm in the northeast and typically won't have clutch issues until the winter when it's freezing temperatures.

[BMW DRIVEN]

I am currently in the middle of doing a custom tune with Cary Jordan and the issue is around 3800rpm my car has a stutter, feels like a misfire, but no CEL. Jordan and my mechanic think it has to do with the hpfp not keeping up. Here are some logs and it seems like my hpfp psi start to fall under target around 3500rpm and continue to drop until 4000rpm.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f5a...729b7e93a82a26
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f5a...729b7f1676c174

[Joeirl92]

Originally Posted by akgambino

Eventually PTF should indicate that for stage 2 or higher n55 maps on cars with 6MT upgraded clutch is required. Clutch slip is inevitable on any stage 2 n55 6mt car, don't waste your time trying to chase this down and try to convince yourself it's the tune or bump in the road... your clutch is slipping.

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Particularly true for stage 2 E30 map, which he is running.

Originally Posted by Joe_F32

Does this look like clutch slip to you too?

I can confirm this. BM3 Stage 2 E30 ate my clutch alive. Don't even bother unless you have the $$ for a clutch upgrade in mind. I learned the hard way.

Here's to hoping my SPEC 2+ goes well. Install is tomorrow. You best believe I'm going right back to E30 lol. I'll post logs of before (clutch slip) and after (after clutch break-in) if anyone's interested. It'll be a while until I hit that 500 mile mark though :/

[codestar]

Originally Posted by Joeirl92

I can confirm this. BM3 Stage 2 E30 ate my clutch alive. Don't even bother unless you have the $$ for a clutch upgrade in mind. I learned the hard way.

Here's to hoping my SPEC 2+ goes well. Install is tomorrow. You best believe I'm going right back to E30 lol. I'll post logs of before (clutch slip) and after (after clutch break-in) if anyone's interested. It'll be a while until I hit that 500 mile mark though :/

On the st2 e30 map with spec 2+ and cdv delete and it runs like a champ. Still wish that you could have sport throttle with dsc off though, even in sport plus you need to be careful with the throttle or else the wheelspin cuts engine power

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by Joe_F32

I am currently in the middle of doing a custom tune with Cary Jordan and the issue is around 3800rpm my car has a stutter, feels like a misfire, but no CEL. Jordan and my mechanic think it has to do with the hpfp not keeping up. Here are some logs and it seems like my hpfp psi start to fall under target around 3500rpm and continue to drop until 4000rpm.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f5a...729b7e93a82a26
https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5f5a...729b7f1676c174

OK i am a little confused. These are different logs than the one you posted the screenshot of, right?

The two logs above you just posted are really messy. Why are you rolling into the throttle so gently and over time? There a bunch of extra data and you arent going WOT and keeping constant pedal input.

Also, we need context. Whats your full mod list? Are you on stock HPFP? What ethanol content are you running and how precise is your mix? Did you measure content of the pump or are you running ethanol sensor?

The screenshot you posted looks like clutch slip with relatively minor HPFP pressure dips, but the new logs show more significantly HPFP pressure dip and throttle closures as well.

Its very possible you have both issues if you are trying to get a custom E30 tune on stock HPFP... which doesn't really make sense in the first place since theres basically no gains to be had when the E30 OTS map is at the limit of the HPFP.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by codestar

On the st2 e30 map with spec 2+ and cdv delete and it runs like a champ. Still wish that you could have sport throttle with dsc off though, even in sport plus you need to be careful with the throttle or else the wheelspin cuts engine power

You need better tires

[codestar]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

You need better tires

bought a set of 437M forged wheels that had 255/35, 275/35 pzero's with approx 80% tread left. considered getting PS4S but will wait until next summer. Thought the extra tire width would help more but it doesn't really

[designatedposter]

Originally Posted by Joeirl92

I can confirm this. BM3 Stage 2 E30 ate my clutch alive. Don't even bother unless you have the $$ for a clutch upgrade in mind. I learned the hard way.

Here's to hoping my SPEC 2+ goes well. Install is tomorrow. You best believe I'm going right back to E30 lol. I'll post logs of before (clutch slip) and after (after clutch break-in) if anyone's interested. It'll be a while until I hit that 500 mile mark though :/

Originally Posted by codestar

On the st2 e30 map with spec 2+ and cdv delete and it runs like a champ. Still wish that you could have sport throttle with dsc off though, even in sport plus you need to be careful with the throttle or else the wheelspin cuts engine power

for those upgrading clutch, do you attempt to stick with stock flywheel dmfw? any pictures of the condition of the flywheel at time of new clutch install (and mileage).

[BMW DRIVEN]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

OK i am a little confused. These are different logs than the one you posted the screenshot of, right?

The two logs above you just posted are really messy. Why are you rolling into the throttle so gently and over time? There a bunch of extra data and you arent going WOT and keeping constant pedal input.

Also, we need context. Whats your full mod list? Are you on stock HPFP? What ethanol content are you running and how precise is your mix? Did you measure content of the pump or are you running ethanol sensor?

The screenshot you posted looks like clutch slip with relatively minor HPFP pressure dips, but the new logs show more significantly HPFP pressure dip and throttle closures as well.

Its very possible you have both issues if you are trying to get a custom E30 tune on stock HPFP... which doesn't really make sense in the first place since theres basically no gains to be had when the E30 OTS map is at the limit of the HPFP.

Yeah, I don't know why I rolled into the logs.
Mod list: FBO, stock HPFP, in the middle of a custom E-30 tune. Ethanol content was tested at 85%, mix was precise. Running CA 91.

The screen shot was a different revision in the tuning process. The logs I posted are most recent. I appreciate your help on this; I don't want to just throw parts at the car. Especially, since a hpfp and clutch are quite pricey.

[codestar]

Originally Posted by designatedposter

for those upgrading clutch, do you attempt to stick with stock flywheel dmfw? any pictures of the condition of the flywheel at time of new clutch install (and mileage).

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...0#post25245150

I bought a new DMFW but didn't ask them to check the tolerance on the old one beforehand. I didn't want to get my trans dropped again in the future if the old one started to fail later on even if it was fine at the time of clutch install

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by Joe_F32

Yeah, I don't know why I rolled into the logs.
Mod list: FBO, stock HPFP, in the middle of a custom E-30 tune. Ethanol content was tested at 85%, mix was precise. Running CA 91.

The screen shot was a different revision in the tuning process. The logs I posted are most recent. I appreciate your help on this; I don't want to just throw parts at the car. Especially, since a hpfp and clutch are quite pricey.

Well simply put, i dont think there's any way you are going to be able to run 19-20 psi with stock HPFP running E30. The OTS E30 map runs about 16-17 psi IIRC (need to check back at log), and it is basically at the limit of HPFP, especially with low IATs. People who get custom tuns on pump gas usually start to get HPFP crash around 20 psi as well...

There's just not enough headroom on the stock HPFP to make a custom tune worth it on E30 over the OTS map. I am surprised (not) your tuner didnt even give you a heads up before taking your money...

[BMW DRIVEN]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

Well simply put, i dont think there's any way you are going to be able to run 19-20 psi with stock HPFP running E30. The OTS E30 map runs about 16-17 psi IIRC (need to check back at log), and it is basically at the limit of HPFP, especially with low IATs. People who get custom tuns on pump gas usually start to get HPFP crash around 20 psi as well...

There's just not enough headroom on the stock HPFP to make a custom tune worth it on E30 over the OTS map. I am surprised (not) your tuner didnt even give you a heads up before taking your money...

Yeah, I kinda wish the potential issue with the hpfp was brought to my attention before I purchased a custom tune. Also, you think there could be a clutch issue on top of that? If that's the case, I should have definitely just went with the OTS E-30 map from the get-go.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by Joe_F32

Yeah, I kinda wish the potential issue with the hpfp was brought to my attention before I purchased a custom tune. Also, you think there could be a clutch issue on top of that? If that's the case, I should have definitely just went with the OTS E-30 map from the get-go.

Yes, very possible clutch issue, but can't tell from the recent logs because you didnt go WOT at the start of the pull. If the E30 OTS map can cause the clutch to slip then a custom tune running more boost certainly can... at least for the moment you can support it before HPFP crashes.

When you log to need to floor it quickly not roll into it. That initial torque hit at low rpm in higher gear is what can cause the clutch to slip.

Read more about datalogging in my thread here: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1732327

[BMW DRIVEN]

I appreciate all of your help Jeremy! I think at this point I'm going to go with a more conservative tune with stock components and call it a day. I don't feel like dumping 3K into this car just so I can run 19.5 boost on this stock turbo. I'd rather wait and upgrade the turbo along with everything else. By that time I might just want to graduate to the B58 or S55 motor.