[Roki187]

Originally Posted by Bullitt1841

Both options look to be the best solutions out there. I've never been a fan of Dinan products, but not being able to datalog would make me rule out AA, as well.

Just trying to be a little safer and more conservative as I get older. I've already been through the process of blowing an engine on a brand new vehicle, and it's not very fun.

I'll probably sit on the sidelines and see how these products pan out for as long as I can. Easier said than done.

What motor blew on you, just curious? And I know what you mean, if I wouldn't have backing of some Bmw people I know I wouldn't tune a 60k+ car at all. Especially wit known past fueling issues.

[Bullitt1841]

Originally Posted by Roki187

What motor blew on you, just curious? And I know what you mean, if I wouldn't have backing of some Bmw people I know I wouldn't tune a 60k+ car at all. Especially wit known past fueling issues.

Supercharged 2008 Mustang running a very popular canned tune for the setup. I thought it was "proven" enough, but shit happens. Ran great for 3 years and lots of miles. The fact remains that running with no gauges, no wideband(s), and an ECU not in the same league as modern turbo BMW's, I could not prevent bending 3 connecting rods due to a failed intercooler water pump relay.

I have learned to go overkill on the gauges and logging.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Bullitt1841

Both options look to be the best solutions out there. I've never been a fan of Dinan products, but not being able to datalog would make me rule out AA, as well.

Just trying to be a little safer and more conservative as I get older. I've already been through the process of blowing an engine on a brand new vehicle, and it's not very fun.

I'll probably sit on the sidelines and see how these products pan out for as long as I can. Easier said than done.

Jb4 is the only option that lets you datalog, Dinan does not

[Bullitt1841]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Jb4 is the only option that lets you datalog, Dinan does not

My 440i is currently stock and I am able to datalog with 2 different OBD2 bluetooth adapters and Torque or Dashcommand. Saying that the JB4 is the "only option that let's you datalog" is incorrect and I think you're completely missing my point and question.

If I use a JB4, I understand that the OBD2 port is now taken over (completely/physically in the case of the B58) and cannot be logged from there. This is not a big deal because the JB4 has an alternative option for logging, which is built in to the device.

But I have trying pretty hard in this thread for anyone to tell me what options are available when the AA A8, or any other non-JB4 device, is installed. Still haven't figured out why people can't answer simple questions, and just type in the first thing that pops into their head about what they want me to hear.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Bullitt1841

My 440i is currently stock and I am able to datalog with 2 different OBD2 bluetooth adapters and Torque or Dashcommand. Saying that the JB4 is the "only option that let's you datalog" is incorrect and I think you're completely missing my point and question.

If I use a JB4, I understand that the OBD2 port is now taken over (completely/physically in the case of the B58) and cannot be logged from there. This is not a big deal because the JB4 has an alternative option for logging, which is built in to the device.

But I have trying pretty hard in this thread for anyone to tell me what options are available when the AA A8, or any other non-JB4 device, is installed. Still haven't figured out why people can't answer simple questions, and just type in the first thing that pops into their head about what they want me to hear.

People are answering but it sounds that you are not listening.

JB4 is the only one that has the datalog feature, if you are using a third party application (Dashcommand) you can datalog whether the car is stock or is using a tune (AA, Dinan,etc...)

[Bullitt1841]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

People are answering but it sounds that you are not listening.

JB4 is the only one that has the datalog feature, if you are using a third party application (Dashcommand) you can datalog whether the car is stock or is using a tune (AA, Dinan,etc...)

Ha, do you even read before you post? If I talked like that to my customers I would deserve the lost sales from whatever potential customers I pissed off.

At least I kind of got you to answer my question. If you are so confident in your technical responses, please tell me this:

1. Do any of these other products block, or take up significant bandwidth, of the OBD2 port to where a third party logging solution would not be realistic?

2. When these other products are installed, do all parameters get reported as actual/true values (boost, timing, fuel, IAT)? Or are they the "dummy" values like in the case of the JB4?

Honestly, if you don't know you should just keep your speculation and misinformation to yourself. I know this is your thread, but you shouldn't keep posting inaccurate and incomplete responses. Leave that to the Dinan representative in his own threads.

[Roki187]

Originally Posted by Bullitt1841

Ha, do you even read before you post? If I talked like that to my customers I would deserve the lost sales from whatever potential customers I pissed off.

At least I kind of got you to answer my question. If you are so confident in your technical responses, please tell me this:

1. Do any of these other products block, or take up significant bandwidth, of the OBD2 port to where a third party logging solution would not be realistic?

2. When these other products are installed, do all parameters get reported as actual/true values (boost, timing, fuel, IAT)? Or are they the "dummy" values like in the case of the JB4?

Honestly, if you don't know you should just keep your speculation and misinformation to yourself. I know this is your thread, but you shouldn't keep posting inaccurate and incomplete responses. Leave that to the Dinan representative in his own threads.

The AA tune does not log but it does not plug into your obd port so you can use what ever device you'd like to log.

The jb4 uses the obd port but it does log.

Your sampling rate (accuracy) depends on the device you're using.

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by Bullitt1841

If I use a JB4, I understand that the OBD2 port is now taken over (completely/physically in the case of the B58) and cannot be logged from there. This is not a big deal because the JB4 has an alternative option for logging, which is built in to the device.

Bullit,

For a discrete install and to keep OBD port clear, you can hardwire JB4 canbus to the back of the OBD port - photo below shows how:-



OBD --->> JB4 Canbus
Grey --->> Green
Blue --->> Brown.

BP

[PeterA90]

Originally Posted by Bullitt1841

Ha, do you even read before you post? If I talked like that to my customers I would deserve the lost sales from whatever potential customers I pissed off.

At least I kind of got you to answer my question. If you are so confident in your technical responses, please tell me this:

1. Do any of these other products block, or take up significant bandwidth, of the OBD2 port to where a third party logging solution would not be realistic?

2. When these other products are installed, do all parameters get reported as actual/true values (boost, timing, fuel, IAT)? Or are they the "dummy" values like in the case of the JB4?

Honestly, if you don't know you should just keep your speculation and misinformation to yourself. I know this is your thread, but you shouldn't keep posting inaccurate and incomplete responses. Leave that to the Dinan representative in his own threads.

My friend calm down, Mike is just trying to explain to you, that you keep asking the same questions. And, secondly I've purchased from Mike before and great dude to deal with. Please read what I write thoroughly.

-Jb4 can provide you with all you seek in terms of logging, clear codes... etc. I've ran it since early release when it was in BETA.

-AA doesn't have added features.

Also, you I believe you can still use your OBD2 for dataloging your 3rd party device if you go with the AA Tune. JB4 plugs into OBD2, so no third party logging.

[carguy19]

Originally Posted by Bullitt1841

Or are they the "dummy" values like in the case of the JB4?

This is the funniest and most stupid thing I've read in 2017 yet.

BMS must spend countless hours filling up the memory of the JB4 to have it spit out the dummy values. ... the 'dummy values' can be seen on their site right next to the bmw throttle cables, supercharger belts and accelerator pedal fluid.

[Bullitt1841]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

Bullit,

For a discrete install and to keep OBD port clear, you can hardwire JB4 canbus to the back of the OBD port - photo below shows how:-


OBD --->> JB4 Canbus
Grey --->> Green
Blue --->> Brown.

BP

Interesting, thanks. That does look like another option for JB4 users, but I would probably use the JB4 for logging in that case since the JB4 Mobile app is so good for that purpose.

I am trying to convince MHD to add the B58 to his app(s) just for logging purposes. He already said it's doable, even though actually tuning of the B58 could literally be years away.

A couple issues I have with logging with Torque or DashCommand via the OBD2 port are:

1. There is no automatic WOT logging that I know of
2. There is no ability to view a graph immediately like JB4 Mobile or MHD
3. The sample rate can be hugely affected by the amount of parameters being logged
4. I don't know (because I've never tested myself or read about it yet) if the values reported to the OBD2 port are true values or not. I am pretty sure the values on a B58 JB4 vehicle for boost and IAT (at a minimum) are not true values, so I am just wondering the same for the AA piggyback and others. I don't see much value to logging values that have been fudged.

[eluded]

Another issue when logging via ODB is if you're using a piggyback it lies to the ECU..... thus the logs show your ECU is seeing.

[Bee Pee]

Originally Posted by Bullitt1841

A couple issues I have with logging with Torque or DashCommand via the OBD2 port are:

1. There is no automatic WOT logging that I know of
2. There is no ability to view a graph immediately like JB4 Mobile or MHD
3. The sample rate can be hugely affected by the amount of parameters being logged
4. I don't know (because I've never tested myself or read about it yet) if the values reported to the OBD2 port are true values or not. I am pretty sure the values on a B58 JB4 vehicle for boost and IAT (at a minimum) are not true values, so I am just wondering the same for the AA piggyback and others. I don't see much value to logging values that have been fudged.

It reads like you are moving away from dongle + smartphone app [good move IMHO] and landing either on Jb4 or MHD.

If MHD is used on B58 for logging only, when you run JB4 or any other tuning box, then you may find that MHD doesn't log the "true" parameters.

As mentioned already, JB4 datalogging is extensive, even showing "true" and "duped" boost.

My suggestion would be you use JB4 to tune and datalog initially until such time that MHD has a turn-key B58 tune/datalog solution then switch from Jb4 to MHD.

[David@ActiveAutowerke]

Originally Posted by Bullitt1841

Ha, do you even read before you post? If I talked like that to my customers I would deserve the lost sales from whatever potential customers I pissed off.

At least I kind of got you to answer my question. If you are so confident in your technical responses, please tell me this:

1. Do any of these other products block, or take up significant bandwidth, of the OBD2 port to where a third party logging solution would not be realistic?

2. When these other products are installed, do all parameters get reported as actual/true values (boost, timing, fuel, IAT)? Or are they the "dummy" values like in the case of the JB4?

Honestly, if you don't know you should just keep your speculation and misinformation to yourself. I know this is your thread, but you shouldn't keep posting inaccurate and incomplete responses. Leave that to the Dinan representative in his own threads.

1. The Active-8 does not take up any OBD 2 bandwith at all. We do not tap in to the Canbus system, therefore it is compatible with any third party hardware/program that needs to access information via the OBD 2 port (dataloggers, gauges, etc).

2. When using the Active-8 the only parameter that will not be a true value will be boost. Timing, Fuel, IAT etc will all be accurate. Therefore you will still be able to accurately measure how the car is running by monitoring AFR and timing.

[Bullitt1841]

Originally Posted by David@ActiveAutowerke

1. The Active-8 does not take up any OBD 2 bandwith at all. We do not tap in to the Canbus system, therefore it is compatible with any third party hardware/program that needs to access information via the OBD 2 port (dataloggers, gauges, etc).

2. When using the Active-8 the only parameter that will not be a true value will be boost. Timing, Fuel, IAT etc will all be accurate. Therefore you will still be able to accurately measure how the car is running by monitoring AFR and timing.

Thank you so much for the thorough and accurate response. Much appreciated!

[insanecoder]

416 ftlb @ ~3500rpm .. this is fairly awesome crazy torque but does this not concern anyone that the 8HP50 is only rated to 368ft lb and torque this high in this most accessible range on an everyday basis wont affect their tranny prematurely?
We're talkin 40-50 ftlbs (~>10%) over ZF ratings most of the time in everyday driving with this much power at only 3500rpm

[BASELINE]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

416 ftlb @ ~3500rpm .. this is fairly awesome crazy torque but does this not concern anyone that the 8HP50 is only rated to 368ft lb and torque this high in this most accessible range on an everyday basis wont affect their tranny prematurely?
We're talkin 40-50 ftlbs (~>10%) over ZF ratings most of the time in everyday driving with this much power at only 3500rpm

I wouldn't be concerned. The ZF8 in the 335i was rated lower and there are people pushing over 550lbft to the wheels on those. I wouldn't be surprised if this thing trotted around happily at the same or higher power levels.

[insanecoder]

I dont think the rest of the components of the B58 setup will have an issue with that but the expensive tranny is what I'm concerned about.
And yes I've heard lots of guys running north of 400 ftlb but I've also heard 335 guys putting tunes on and subsequently having their ZF 8hp45 slip.. and not every guy is gonna post their problems online so I wonder how much its really happening.
This tune is compelling though the torque jam in the mid-range is useful.
What kind of performance is to be got from just 91 octane?

[Wires]

I was initially concerned, but with my Activ8 installed, it's pretty apparently BMW has integrated a lot of torque safety features. If I try to do a WOT shift under heavy load, car goes into a torque management throttle cut.

You can feel it slightly with the stock car on the 2-3 hard shift. With a tuner, it's VERY apparent. You just need to get off the throttle a bit during the shifts to mitigate it.

[iMinLuv]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

Bullit,

For a discrete install and to keep OBD port clear, you can hardwire JB4 canbus to the back of the OBD port - photo below shows how:-



OBD --->> JB4 Canbus
Grey --->> Green
Blue --->> Brown.

BP

That's pretty slick... I'm assuming you don't lose any functionality? Are you connecting the wires right behind the female end of the OBD2 on the inside of the car?

[dereksM3]

Will this work on 92 octane up here in WA? I see advertised is for 93 octane?

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by dereksM3

Will this work on 92 octane up here in WA? I see advertised is for 93 octane?

Hi,
Yes it will.
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