[Scott340]

Originally Posted by moonshine

...but this does not in any way mean i don't see and appreciate the difficulties that a large number of people are going to be facing in the coming years.

It's quite sobering and humbling - i hope everyone comes out the other side intact.
Be careful out there.

Here here!

We've managed to accumulate enough equity through doing up and selling previous homes, and now also our current home, that we're incredibly lucky that we've got plenty of options available to us for our next move (other than staying in our current home!!).

I couldn't not sympathise with people who were in financial difficulties though and didn't have a way out.... regardless of the decisions that were made or life events that had occurred for them to find themselves in such a situation.

Originally Posted by JLR1969

What I don't feel sorry for is people who have credit that they cant afford. If the rates 1% its still borrowing and needs to be paid back, with the exception of mortgages finance is normally fixed at the point of borrowing.

If an increase to 6% on a mortgage has caused people to be in real trouble then they have far too much credit in there lives in total.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by Scott340

An increase to circa 6% will either mean a substantial detriment to our quality of life, or we start to eat into our savings. Mix that with my view that it is more likely that house prices will fall rather than rise over the next 12-24 months; and so rather than burying our heads in the sand and hoping for the best, the house is up for sale and we'll be accepting an offer on it today. We'll move into rented and transfer the equity in the house into savings before making our next move.

It'll be interesting to see how many others have either done the same as us, or will consider doing so in the not too distant future. It's certainly interesting times!

But you have a fix till 2024, and I doubt the rates will be that high by then. If you're on a fix then you will have early repayment. Then add in selling fees, the costs of renting, then stamp duty again when you get back on the ladder... unless you really need to relocate, or really don't like the house you're in then it sounds like an awful lot of hassle to avoid a short term reduction in house price values. Property has never stayed down for long in the UK, and if we have a dip now then I don't see that changing.

But to your point, do too many folk see their home as an asset first and a home second?

I hate renting, and it would be more stressful to me to be in rented accommodation than in my own home.

Perhaps it's a bit different for us, as this house is the one we see as our forever home, so I couldn't really care what it's valuation is. I suppose it will matter come remortgage time, but that's a few years away, and a lot will happen before then (like another 8 Prime Ministers at the current rate).

[Pond]

By it's very nature this forum's members are generally not going to be the lower and lower-middle income people who are going to be hit the hardest IMHO. (Except me; I'm poor but old so had a good while to reduce my debts).

There must be millions of people who work hard but in poorly paid jobs, who have mortgages and other debts. These are the ones I worry about, and I am struggling to see how any current Government is going to be able to really help them with the world as it is.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by Pond

Did you think that 0.88% would last forever? I can see why you might TBH, as free money has been around for 12 years now. All good things come to an end; only problem is they have never changed from great to shit so quickly in my lifetime.

0.88% to 6% in a heartbeat must be difficult to say the least. You have my sympathy.

looks like endowments (or the modern equivalent of putting off the inevitable) are on the way back!

I have my heart that phrase for Lonnng time!
It's been out our mind for ages though as your first House mortgage was via Endowment.

By some fluke or good advice back then we moved pretty soon and just started another mortgage and kept the endowment as an 'investment'.

Matures in March 2023 and whisky it's a nice influx, like them all has t made what it could / should.

[3-GT]

I generally don't feel sorry for those who overstretch and don't leave themselves with some financial flexibility in there budgeting.

However, I do on this occasion. I think it's unrealistic to expect people to predict such high increases in costs across so many sectors all at the same time and especially at the speed it's happened.

[Scott340]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

But you have a fix till 2024, and I doubt the rates will be that high by then. If you're on a fix then you will have early repayment. Then add in selling fees, the costs of renting, then stamp duty again when you get back on the ladder... unless you really need to relocate, or really don't like the house you're in then it sounds like an awful lot of hassle to avoid a short term reduction in house price values.

I hate renting, and it would be more stressful to me to be in rented accommodation than in my own home.

The other, rather large factor, is that I am jacking in the security of employment and me and a few others are setting up on our own (if anyone needs to employ and pay someone in a country they don't have an entity set up, we can can help!! ). My wife is a stay at home mum as well so I'm the only one that brings an income for the family. No pressure then!

Also the last few houses we've had, we bought with a view to being a large project to increase their value. We like where we are, but it'll never be our forever home so the costs of moving (barring early redemption fees) will be realised either now or later. There's an element of crystallising our profit on it as well.

I have no idea where mortgage rates or house prices are going in the next year or two. I were to have to bet I'd put it on lower prices and higher mortgage rates still in 24 months time, but without a crystal ball no one really knows. If rates do stay at 6% though, there's a real risk we'll be a forced seller in a years' time.

The massive draws to renting for us is that at current interest rates, the savings we'll have will earn more each month in interest than the monthly rental costs which is just insane; and in the event that the new business doesn't go well, we'll have disposable cash at our finger tips to buy time to figure out our next step.

So it's a case of stay here, and cross an awful lot of fingers that business goes well and mortgage rates come down; or plan for the worst and hope for the best and put ourselves in a position with a lot less stress. Renting for us is actually the least stressful option at the moment.

Also the only way we'll lose out financially is if house prices continue to rise. If they come down, that'll just be an added bonus.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by Scott340

The other, rather large factor, is that I am jacking in the security of employment and me and a few others are setting up on our own (if anyone needs to employ and pay someone in a country they don't have an entity set up, we can can help!! ). My wife is a stay at home mum as well so I'm the only one that brings an income for the family. No pressure then!

Also the last few houses we've had, we bought with a view to being a large project to increase their value. We like where we are, but it'll never be our forever home so the costs of moving (barring early redemption fees) will be realised either now or later. There's an element of crystallising our profit on it as well.

I have no idea where mortgage rates or house prices are going in the next year or two. I were to have to bet I'd put it on lower prices and higher mortgage rates still in 24 months time, but without a crystal ball no one really knows. If rates do stay at 6% though, there's a real risk we'll be a forced seller in a years' time.

The massive draws to renting for us is that at current interest rates, the savings we'll have will earn more each month in interest than the monthly rental costs which is just insane; and in the event that the new business doesn't go well, we'll have disposable cash at our finger tips to buy time to figure out our next step.

So it's a case of stay here, and cross an awful lot of fingers that business goes well and mortgage rates come down; or plan for the worst and hope for the best and put ourselves in a position with a lot less stress. Renting for us is actually the least stressful option at the moment.

Also the only way we'll lose out financially is if house prices continue to rise. If they come down, that'll just be an added bonus.

Fair enough, that's quite a specific set of circumstances, and I can understand the rationale.

[JLR1969]

Originally Posted by 3-GT

I generally don't feel sorry for those who overstretch and don't leave themselves with some financial flexibility in there budgeting.

However, I do on this occasion. I think it's unrealistic to expect people to predict such high increases in costs across so many sectors all at the same time and especially at the speed it's happened.

Agree the mortgage increase could not have been seen, I knew it was going to rise but not by so much.

Its not very prudent though when people are in a financial mess when this rate has happened and they have no financial buffer in their financial planning

I often see people living in modest houses on car forums that have £80K+ worth of cars sat on the drive all on finance.........

If you have sympathy or not thats individual choice but hopefully this wake up call will change peoples ways and attitudes to saving

[JLR1969]

Originally Posted by Scott340

The other, rather large factor, is that I am jacking in the security of employment and me and a few others are setting up on our own (if anyone needs to employ and pay someone in a country they don't have an entity set up, we can can help!! ). My wife is a stay at home mum as well so I'm the only one that brings an income for the family. No pressure then!

Also the last few houses we've had, we bought with a view to being a large project to increase their value. We like where we are, but it'll never be our forever home so the costs of moving (barring early redemption fees) will be realised either now or later. There's an element of crystallising our profit on it as well.

I have no idea where mortgage rates or house prices are going in the next year or two. I were to have to bet I'd put it on lower prices and higher mortgage rates still in 24 months time, but without a crystal ball no one really knows. If rates do stay at 6% though, there's a real risk we'll be a forced seller in a years' time.

The massive draws to renting for us is that at current interest rates, the savings we'll have will earn more each month in interest than the monthly rental costs which is just insane; and in the event that the new business doesn't go well, we'll have disposable cash at our finger tips to buy time to figure out our next step.

So it's a case of stay here, and cross an awful lot of fingers that business goes well and mortgage rates come down; or plan for the worst and hope for the best and put ourselves in a position with a lot less stress. Renting for us is actually the least stressful option at the moment.

Also the only way we'll lose out financially is if house prices continue to rise. If they come down, that'll just be an added bonus.

Jumping off the property ladder is a very risky move, there is still a shortage of houses and I dont see the values dropping to any great %

Also bear in mind any interest on your savings will be taxed possibly at 40%

Good luck in your new business and I hope everything works out, you are very brave!

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by JLR1969

I often see people living in modest houses on car forums that have £80K+ worth of cars sat on the drive all on finance.........

On the whole I do agree, but you don't need to be on a car forum to see this, just drive through any normal suburban housing area, and see house after house with shiny new metal sat on the drive. It's not the car enthusiasts that are sustaining the car market, it's most of Joe Public. I find it bizarre to spend almost as much on car payments as mortgage payments. I know it's a personal decision of course, but one is your home and long term rising value asset, the other is a depreciating hunk of metal that gets used a few hours a day maximum.

A fair few will be company car drivers I suppose, who don't get so much choice but to have a newish car, but that's less and less people these days I'd guess.

Having spunked a lot of money on PCPs over the years, getting off that bandwagon is one of the best things I've ever done.

[JLR1969]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

On the whole I do agree, but you don't need to be on a car forum to see this, just drive through any normal suburban housing area, and see house after house with shiny new metal sat on the drive. It's not the car enthusiasts that are sustaining the car market, it's most of Joe Public. I find it bizarre to spend almost as much on car payments as mortgage payments. I know it's a personal decision of course, but one is your home and long term rising value asset, the other is a depreciating hunk of metal that gets used a few hours a day maximum.

A fair few will be company car drivers I suppose, who don't get so much choice but to have a newish car, but that's less and less people these days I'd guess.

Having spunked a lot of money on PCPs over the years, getting off that bandwagon is one of the best things I've ever done.

Yes Terry agree, used a car forum as an example as I see so many pics on forums but you are right housing estates are littered with cars on finance.

Makes no sense to me. Its nice having a new car but its a luxury and linked to vanity in my mind

Ultimately I think I am just tight/boring/sensible but losing circa £800+ a month on depreciation for a few hundred miles driven just doesnt make sense even though I could afford it.

[KRS_SN]

May be anecdotal but my trainee has been looking for a house for the past few months. Lost out on some despite offering 10%over home report value.
Last week In the same area found a house of his specification, home report of 400k but seller has now accepted an offer of 353k yesterday.

[JLR1969]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

May be anecdotal but my trainee has been looking for a house for the past few months. Lost out on some despite offering 10%over home report value.
Last week In the same area found a house of his specification, home report of 400k but seller has now accepted an offer of 353k yesterday.

I think more houses are being reduced as the market has cooled but wonder if people are reducing as they are desperate to sell as they are panicking.

[Pond]

Originally Posted by JLR1969

I think more houses are being reduced as the market has cooled but wonder if people are reducing as they are desperate to sell as they are panicking.

I keep a very close eye on the housing market around where I live (as always looking for the next 'one').
Prices are dropping quite quickly. Today alone 7 new listings and 43 price reductions in a 10 mile radius of me.
Not convinced that the estate agents aren't encouraging reductions, as they need sales, even though they have had it extremely good in the last 24 months

[JLR1969]

Originally Posted by Pond

I keep a very close eye on the housing market around where I live (as always looking for the next 'one').
Prices are dropping quite quickly. Today alone 7 new listings and 43 price reductions in a 10 mile radius of me.
Not convinced that the estate agents aren't encouraging reductions, as they need sales, even though they have had it extremely good in the last 24 months

We had our house on with Fine & Country and have seen how many houses they have listed recently in the Bristol area, hardly any selling now. As you say last year was a bonanza for estate agents.

We have taken it off the market now and will look to re-list in the Spring

I have learnt that all estate agents can really do despite all of the bullshit is put it on Rightmove etc and hope it sells, if it doesn't sell in 4 weeks they say reduce it and change the photos round.

All the talk of media campaigns etc & glossy brochures is just rubbish. I would say all you need is Rightmove.

When they show people round they don't even do a proper job

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by JLR1969

We had our house on with Fine & Country and have seen how many houses they have listed recently in the Bristol area, hardly any selling now. As you say last year was a bonanza for estate agents.

We have taken it off the market now and will look to re-list in the Spring

I have learnt that all estate agents can really do despite all of the bullshit is put it on Rightmove etc and hope it sells, if it doesn't sell in 4 weeks they say reduce it and change the photos round.

All the talk of media campaigns etc & glossy brochures is just rubbish. I would say all you need is Rightmove.

When they show people round they don't even do a proper job

A good friend of mine (and former neighbour) is a local estate agent, family firm, and he may just disagree with you there. Certainly my experience with them in the south east suggests that they are definitely not all the same, well they are different between regions....

[Tengocity]

I'd say there are some crap ones, but once you've got a decent one then really what matters after that is how good they are at managing a chain. That bit is hard to tell up front.

If you've a nicer property to sell then photos, videos and floor plans do really count, and much of that is sub contracted anyway.

When we were looking last year we saw a few properties move agency and be transformed in how they came across. That stuff matters when you're contemplating a longer trip to view a property or not.

[Pond]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

A good friend of mine (and former neighbour) is a local estate agent, family firm, and he may just disagree with you there. Certainly my experience with them in the south east suggests that they are definitely not all the same, well they are different between regions....

I have dealt with them in the home counties and up here in rural Lincs. My experience is that they are all shit TBH; except the girl at our local Fine & Country. She was excellent but her branch manager (and husband) was a typical estate agent. He should have been a Trotter. F&C were bloody expensive too.

We have one company in Spalding who are local only; they blatantly lie and manipulate buyers and sellers. I have caught them out more than once. They are 'friends' with all the land owning farmers, so do alright.

I am viewing a house on Thursday and the girl (and she is a girl of about 17) was extolling the virtues of an agent showing people around the house. I would NEVER let an agent show any house of mine; they talk bollox and know nothing about the house. I always do viewings.

[Pond]

Originally Posted by JLR1969

All the talk of media campaigns etc & glossy brochures is just rubbish. I would say all you need is Rightmove.

When they show people round they don't even do a proper job

I agree. Funnily enough a few years ago I seriously looked into starting a business on the lines of 'rightmove/ autotrader' for the public. There were a couple doing it; 'property ladder' was one but they didn't do it right and have gone. The costs of set-up and the fact I'm useless at technology stopped me.

[JLR1969]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

A good friend of mine (and former neighbour) is a local estate agent, family firm, and he may just disagree with you there. Certainly my experience with them in the south east suggests that they are definitely not all the same, well they are different between regions....

For me Estate Agents are one step down from Politicians in the I will tell you what you want to hear to get your business/vote.

[JLR1969]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

I'd say there are some crap ones, but once you've got a decent one then really what matters after that is how good they are at managing a chain. That bit is hard to tell up front.

If you've a nicer property to sell then photos, videos and floor plans do really count, and much of that is sub contracted anyway.

When we were looking last year we saw a few properties move agency and be transformed in how they came across. That stuff matters when you're contemplating a longer trip to view a property or not.

And thats my point, they get a third party to take photos and do a floor plan then put it on Rightmove and hope for the best.

All of the waffle about media campaigns, targeted advertising, people on the books looking for a house just like yours etc etc is just crap.

We used two and neither bothered to produce a glossy brochure despite bringing mountains of brochures to say look at what we do.

We were told we have a lot of people looking for equestrian properties with land and it would sell very quickly, yet not one couple who came had a horse and asked if they could buy the house without the land.

They just tell you what you want to hear to get your business. Its just a numbers game to them.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by JLR1969

And thats my point, they get a third party to take photos and do a floor plan then put it on Rightmove and hope for the best.

All of the waffle about media campaigns, targeted advertising, people on the books looking for a house just like yours etc etc is just crap.

We used two and neither bothered to produce a glossy brochure despite bringing mountains of brochures to say look at what we do.

We were told we have a lot of people looking for equestrian properties with land and it would sell very quickly, yet not one couple who came had a horse and asked if they could buy the house without the land.

They just tell you what you want to hear to get your business. Its just a numbers game to them.

You are very bitter about them. On what you say, why did you use F&C, when no doubt purple bricks will save you money.

I tend not to go with the one that says what I want to hear, I go with the one that will disagree with me if needed......

On the basis they are all sh*t, why are there some that are ranked better than others?

I like the estate agent to be a chartered surveyor and a valuation officer for mortgage approvals, means that they have a bit more understanding....