04-05-2014, 03:03 PM | #23 |
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Bmw lost to Audi the moment they went to the 4 cyl turbo. Bring back the inline 6!
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04-05-2014, 03:23 PM | #24 | ||
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4 cylinder is practical but it doesn't sound good, it sounds cheap. Steering is a big turn off. I hope the 2 series will come out good. Time will tell, if Audi starts making good raw cars and AudiFest starts(if not already), enthusiasts ll start jumping. |
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04-05-2014, 03:42 PM | #26 | |
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This is a custom tune (yeah same Alientech interface as OFT) This is a 4cyl turbo car you think is too good for a BMW (but good enough for Audi, Mercedes, Cadillac, Saab, Buick, Subaru, Mazda, Ford, Mitsubishi and the good people at BMW) Its certainly more fun than a stock turbo N54/N55 which even when faster (which is not the case unless your FBO) falls flat on its face after 5500rpm while that 4cyl turbo above was pushing 24psi @ 7000rpm and had a usable top end. The "regular" BMW 6 cyls are slow as balls period. There is no good experience being slow as balls. So unless you have an M 6/8/10 cyl I beg to differ. I don't find the N54 to be particularly refined and smooth either before you go there. Before the turbo four I had a VR6 which was much smoother and sounded WAY better than a N54. Before that I had a DSM 2.0T turbo. So I've had two turbo 4cyl and two 6cyl and I never found any great driving experience advantage from one to the other. A $500 tune will make the BMW 4cyl turbo more engine than a NA equivalent BMW 6cyl could ever dream of being without throwing a ton into it. The results are only questionable because if they made it the way they easily could have no one would buy 335/435s (I don't mean this literally before you argue that sarcasm). They could have just as easily thrown a bigger turbo and threw boost at it like the Mercedes AMG CL45 Last edited by stanlalee; 04-05-2014 at 03:50 PM.. |
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04-05-2014, 04:13 PM | #27 |
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Bmw makes there engines slow as balls for a reason, marketing. I've had an 06 325, slow as balls, if they would have used that motor more to its potential why would anyone buy a 330. Then they came out with the n54 the following year, it has numbers of a big six not an eight cylinder, why because it still competes with everything in its class and left room to make the m3 that much better. Its all about selling cars and making people want more.
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04-05-2014, 06:41 PM | #28 |
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Man.. is everyone missing the point here? Why is this "BMW going downhill" shouldn't we be seeing this as the rest of the world catching up? MB and AUDI are FINALLY catching up, thank god! now the consumer will actually have plenty of choices and prices should be far more competitive! I don't know about you, but nothing pleases me more then having plenty of solid options priced aggressively.... you all sound like BMW is the chariot of god himself, and the rest of the automotive world should never even come close to its superiority. How about looking at it half glass full? F30 sucks, everyone agrees, so get an S4/S3, get a CLA-45 AMG, at a price that is more competitive then AMG's ever were. Gotta stop drinking the BMW kool-aid. They started cutting costs long before the f30 (lci's couldnt afford to have insulation under the hood because it was cutting into the profit margin.)
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04-06-2014, 02:23 AM | #31 | |
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Every car company, and every company period, goes through ups and downs. For the past few years, BMW's 3 series were considered to be among the best of the luxury-sports sector, if not the very best. The reviews on the newest generation (F3x 3 and 4 series) are mixed, but basically they aren't considered to be the absolute best right now. For the longest time the Japanese companies made some of the best economy cars while the US competition sucked. Now US companies like Ford are making cars that compete with or outright beat the Japanese in that sector. There should be no surprise or concern over this. If the quality of BMW cars continuously degrades over the next decade, than yeah, you should be concerned. Give BMW a chance to do R&D, refine and innovate as they always have. And let's be honest, though the current 3 and 4 series aren't considered the best, they are still decent enough; it's not like they are totally lacking quality and performance. |
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04-06-2014, 02:41 AM | #32 |
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The facts seem to be that people really don't give a shit about driving. They don't. They want a car, they want gadgets, and they want a badge. When regular people say "eh but the BMW steering is too hard" they buy the light steering Merc. Have you ever tried to explain cars to a regular person? Or just talk about them? I went to a car show with my GF earlier this year and she didn't understand who I was there. I was a psycho to her, "who the fuck names off engine specs of fiat products, and what is a transmission?" She asks.
The enthusiast aura around BMW has made it famous. And people have flocked to get a piece. It's one of the reasons I got mine over an Audi, because I "knew" that it was a drivers car. It had a mystique. Where am I going with this? Not sure, it's 2am so who cares. This topic gets brought up everytime BMW releases a new tire stem cap "o no BMW lost way, much shame!!" "GIVE ME AN e30, I've never driven one but I will be set IM SO CONNECTED to this roundabout that gets me to work, wow the tire valve are so much better in the E30!!" Brands evolve. Audi and many others caught up. They make great cars too now, BMW knows this. They know about the enthusiasts too...but competition is good, it makes for better cars and more choices. They still offer manuals for Christ sakes give them a break. Yes the EPS was half baked. They should have waited a generation to get it right. I think the results in M3/4 will be telling. Ramble ended.
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04-06-2014, 06:08 AM | #33 | |
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It has been reported numerous times in various publications that the E90 wins driving comparos when pitted against the F30, and the new Cadillac CTS offers best-in-class handling above its counterparts. My 800+ mile evaluation of the ATS proved to me it drives better than the F30. I can tell you that after 26 years of BMW ownership my next car will not be a BMW. That decision comes from BMW loosing its way and other manufacturers offering a better product for me, which for me the driving experience needs to come above all else. When you couple the expense of a BMW, along with inferior reliability (of some models), proliferation of the brand to the point where every soccer Mom drives an X-Series (), and a driving experience that is not better than the competition, there is no longer a benefit of ownership. |
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04-06-2014, 08:00 AM | #34 | |
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04-06-2014, 10:02 AM | #35 | |
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04-06-2014, 10:48 AM | #36 |
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At the 3 level at least BMW is catering to the masses now.
At the 3 level at least BMW is catering to the masses now.
Its doing it using the momentum it gained during the days when it was top dog in the enthusiast German cars are so much better era. And they can really charge a premium in a lot of countrys like China where badges mean more than the car itself. |
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04-06-2014, 11:08 AM | #37 | |
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Who would have thought...a german car brand is outperforming another german car brand....what is the universe coming to?
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04-06-2014, 11:13 AM | #38 |
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Just saw the 3rd new X5 I've seen on the road yesterday. It's UGLY. Seriously. I have no idea what has gotten into this car co., as if looks on top of mechanicals no longer matter.
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04-06-2014, 11:14 AM | #39 |
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Some if not most of the changes are due to government regulations. The easiest example to see is the high hood lines for pedestrian safety. These new requirements have dramatically changed how cars look. As these requirements increase the choices for new car design and function are further limited. I think in the case of BMW the requirements for better fuel economy and changing design requirements have shown how depended the company was on the systems they previously used to achieve the results they once had.
The current generation of BMW's are not what we have been buying for decades, they are the first generation of what the future holds. The other car companies are not catching up, BMW has gone down and that's a big difference IMO. If you look at the current 3 it's not very good but the 2 is considerably better so this leave me with hope that the F30/32 are a hiccup in the BMW tradition of fine driving machines, the next 3 will likely regain what is missing.
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04-06-2014, 11:25 AM | #40 | ||
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A) refine & improve the current F30 and F10 cars. and/or B) develop a new generation of cars with better performance. If neither happens within the near future (10 yrs in my book) then I'd agree BMW is on a downward path. Everyone acknowledges the current 3 and 5 series cars are not the best right now. They've barely been out for a few years. So you have to let some time pass for BMW to rebound. Like I said before, everyone has ups and downs. Quote:
Also, just about every car brand out there, including Audi and Mercedes, caters to the soccer mom or family crowd with utility or crossover vics...why? So they can make more money. |
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04-06-2014, 11:35 AM | #41 | |
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04-06-2014, 11:41 AM | #42 |
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My take:
To an extent "BMW has lost its way" is sort of true, when you look at it on the surface. They definitely are going mainstream with all the benefits that implies--big money on the bottom line. But more to the point, BMW is doing what every other car manufacturer is doing over time--the cars of a particular model gets bigger, heavier, and more...."touring" like. Then, when the original model has gotten big/expensive/heavy enough, they introduce a smaller model which pretty much does the job of the guy that just moved up in weight/price class. For BMW's U.S. market, enter the 1- and 2-series. They are what the 3-series used to be. So no, I don't think they've lost their way--not completely. They have a cunning plan to both be mainstream AND enthusiast. Just different car model lines.
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04-06-2014, 12:21 PM | #43 | |
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04-06-2014, 12:28 PM | #44 | |
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