04-24-2024, 01:20 PM | #23 | |
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04-24-2024, 05:54 PM | #25 |
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Billfitz what are the passive crossovers provided with the HK door speakers? Hopefully a step above the hifi system (which was a paltry capacitor inline with the tweeter)? When the weather gets warm enough I'll be doing some experimentation.
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05-03-2024, 01:44 AM | #27 | |
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The audio system tweeter does not fit my vehicle. And the mid driver, while it does fit with a included adapter bracket, is much smaller than OEM - only goes down to 250hz as well. So I will purchase something else. It seems the biggest difference between available component sets is found in the crossover. Many provides something similar to OEM hifi, or at most a box that does -6 db. So in most scenarios the included crossover is inadequate, requiring me to build my own. With this in mind, do you have a recommendation for a (relatively) reasonably priced set? One option that stands out is MATCH UP C42BMW-FRT.2. This set seems to have a somewhat adequate crossover? This would cost me around 260€ which is on par with most alternatives with worse crossovers, so a net win if I don’t have to buy additional components for building a crossover myself. https://www.audiotec-fischer.de/en/m...up-c42bwm-frt2 What do you think? I expect you to point me to used OEM hifi drivers. These are however of low availability and high cost where I live. Also, a more general question/reflection: My only benchmark for this upgrade process is my Volvo V40 with High Performance audio package. Even after adding Match amp and Earthquakes to my BMW it does not seem to compete with the Volvo. Expressed in my limited layman’s vocabulary, I find the Volvo to pack much more of a punch, with more full bodied sound. The latter does have 4x 6.5” mid drivers. Is the BMW just at an inherent disadvantage being limited to 4” mids? Is this disadvantage of such a magnitude that I should limit my expectations for what can be accomplished in the BMW without extensive modifications to fit larger drivers? Or is it perhaps just a matter of tuning the dsp according to my preferences? Perhaps complimenting the earthquakes with a trunk woofer? Many thanks once again. Your expertise is invaluable! |
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05-03-2024, 02:46 AM | #28 |
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You should be able to get great results with the 3 way BMW setup.
Select a target curve to tune to. Start with Harman/JBL or audofrogs tweak of Harman curve. 1, Optimise the cross over points for speakers installed once you’ve done sweeps for underseat woofers and door midbass 2 , Time align door midbasses and tweeters (this will pull the image up and will center image ) 3, Equalize door speakers to target curve left first , then right and then do same for underseat woofers one at a time. 4, make sure woofer running same polarity 5, phase align woofers to door mid bass one side at a time. It should blow the Volvo away after. With the earthquakes and door mid basses. Try not to run the earthquakes much above 100hz otherwise according to one owner that’s into higher end systems they get boomy above that. So your door speaker choice does become crucial. Trunk sub is the answer if you want good sub bass. Would suggest running trunksub from 20-60hz |
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05-03-2024, 06:39 AM | #29 | |
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1. Sweeps is in reference to analyzing the input signal? If not, please enlighten me. 3. Should crossovers not be set after equalization? I thought you want just safety crossovers while using RTA to get a complete measurement and adjustment. 4-5. How exactly is this done? I’m pretty sure about my wiring, but should I still confirm polarity? Also fully clueless about phase alignment. Any suggestion for mids and tweeters? Match set linked above good to go? Regarding trunk woofer, how large should it be to make a meaningful impact? 12” would do it I guess but worried about wife acceptance factor. |
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05-03-2024, 07:14 AM | #30 |
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The Match speakers may or may not be any better than OEM Hi-Fi or H-K. If they posted real specs one could know, but they don't. The crossover says it's 12dB/12dB, so that much at least is an improvement over OM. There are many non-BMW specific driver options that are better than OEM at much more reasonable prices, for instance https://faitalpro.com/en/products/LF...p?id=401005101 but not having the 3 bolt configuration will require some fitting work.
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05-03-2024, 07:54 AM | #31 | |
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Would the fitting in question be limited to drilling a new hole or two? If so, this seems like an interesting option! Do you know of any suitable drop in tweeter options to pair it with? Not sure how ubiquitous the OEM design and dimensions are, perhaps tweeters are more difficult when it comes to straying from the small PnP market options? Can it be quantified somehow how much better those are than for example OEM hifi? Is it substantial or marginal? |
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05-03-2024, 10:51 AM | #32 |
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You'd have to do some drilling, possibly some sheet metal cutting. I added these tweeters to my rear doors. They come with 12dB high pass filters, though you'd still need low pass filters for the midranges. https://www.amazon.com/JBL-CLUB750T-...01MZI2OPE?th=1
Last edited by Billfitz; 05-03-2024 at 10:59 AM.. |
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05-03-2024, 05:24 PM | #33 |
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For that door speaker option it wouldn’t need drilling as such , but at that speaker depth an adaptor ring would be used. So 3 holes in the ring for the bmw mounting points and 4 holes for the speaker mount.
At 40mm of depth you’d want about a 12mm spacer ring as you don’t want the speaker to be more than 38mm into the door cavity to leave clearance for the door glass. You also want to use a foam ring on the outer edge of the adapter to it seals against the door card For adapters there are a few 3d printed stl files on the internet that could be used. https://m.crealitycloud.com/model-de...473cf6003bad95 This was how I mounted my door mid basses for my base audio upgrade. |
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05-03-2024, 06:01 PM | #34 | |
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DMb...K2QKiLruZ/view Also CAF and PSS car audio channels on YouTube worth looking at. 4, simply try invert phase on one woofer channel in your dsp. And then measure bass with both woofers running. Play some drumimg track and you should hear the difference. 6 For a trunk sub a 10 works well. If you get a back trunk enclosure it will give a couple of + db difference compared to being behind back seat. Although at the spls that a sub can produce it’s not really an problem . I’ve run my old 10 whilst rebuilding my 12 inch enclosure. With the 12 inch sub rattling of car was far more prominent so needed quite pannel damping material on trunk lid and floor areas. Tweeters Rear door cards are straight forward as plenty of mounting depth. A holesaw is all that is needed. Front tweeters You can either modify the bass audio sail to mount by drilling a hole or replace the window surround trim with Harman Kardon ones. However the HK trims are best used with a drop in or clip in OEM tweeter or aftermarket. There isn’t a lot of depth behind due to the mirror mounting bolt being behind. Have a look through this page for how I did tweeters.I used HK trims and mounts. Used some focal tweeters in my build. Went for the next model up from the focal drop in series which was quite fiddly. https://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1948053&page=3 |
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05-04-2024, 12:52 AM | #35 | |
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I think the speaker mounting info isn’t really applicable for my vehicle though(?) X3 f25 has tweeters in a slot in the actual door card, right next to the door handle behind a small plastic panel. That’s actually something I am yet to deal with. I need new panels with speaker grill rather than the base audio version that is just solid plastic. They are crazy expensive though, the equivalent of 150 $ for the pair. Considering going to town with a Dremel to convert the existing ones. Not very a straightforward job though since the panel is smaller than the tweeter, can’t just drill a hole with the diameter of the tweeter and fit a ready made grill. Pic for reference. The newer x3, G01, has the tweeter in the window surround trim though. Those are much cheaper for some reason, so I’ve been pondering if they might fit my vehicle. Would be a nice solution since it also raises the tweeter up a bit. |
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05-04-2024, 03:02 AM | #36 |
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Have you considered copies/ knockoffs of the grill ?
BMW F25 F26 X3 X4 Series Front Door Tweeter Cover Speaker Loudspeaker Modification Sticker Decoration Original Upgrade https://a.aliexpress.com/_mqZhgOw |
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05-05-2024, 03:15 AM | #38 | |
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Yeah that’s pretty neat. I have to stay under the radar though, wife would be furious if I start making visible permanent modifications.. |
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05-05-2024, 02:39 PM | #40 |
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[QUOTE=esaru;31124567]Amazing resource! I’ve come to realize I have treat this as a long term journey, requiring some extensive learning to get a good result. Another hobby acquired I guess!
I think the speaker mounting info isn’t really applicable for my vehicle though(?) Ok , mid bass mounting is almost identical. But not sure what door face to door glass clearance would be. Might be more depth. Looks like OEM would be the only way to do tweeters . Typically the bmw brackets aim the tweeter so it’s towed in towards the listener. Coax speakers could be used for Midbass , but most don’t allow the tweeter to be angled in. So from the seat positions the tweeter response is more off axis and isn’t linear as the treble goes up in frequency |
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05-07-2024, 02:30 AM | #41 | |
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Well technically it’s her car but your sentiment is still entirely accurate!
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I suppose the mirror triangle is the only place where I could do some non-OEM fitting shenanigans. That piece of trim seems quite shallow though so that would require adding additional material. The full diy way of molding, sanding and painting feels too daunting though. On another note, my battery seems to be on its way out. Tried charging with external charger several times but voltage drops after just a few hours. How is the amp and audio affected by an underperforming battery? I feel it sounds weaker but that might be placebo. Will replace the battery asap. |
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05-07-2024, 10:21 AM | #42 |
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The mirror triangle would work with the tweeters I linked with just a hole. It wouldn't look exactly stock, but c'est la vie. A weak battery won't bother the audio, as when the engine is running its power is coming from the alternator.
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05-07-2024, 10:50 AM | #43 | |
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Will get a new battery anyways, if nothing else the current one is a limiting factor when doing extended tuning sessions. By the way, what is your impression of the Chinese AliExpress HK speakers? I understand that you have probably not measured them - but perhaps some conclusion could still be drawn regarding their authenticity/viability. https://a.aliexpress.com/_Ezk5aoR |
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05-07-2024, 11:56 AM | #44 |
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When doing tuning sessions or coding you should either have the engine running or be using a battery charger. The only job the battery should be doing is starting the car. Aliexpress speakers may be OK, but there's no way of knowing. Those with BMW labels are fake, the real thing is made in Europe. If you pay attention you'll see many speakers there appear identical to some third party speakers, other than the logo. That's because they are.
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