[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

I wonder what winter tyres people are running. My E90 on Bridgestone runflats was useless in 1cm of snow. On Nokian winters, it was perfect in deep snow, had no issues on a black ice on a slight gradient where many were abandoning their cars and pointlessly spinning wheels (we watched it from a restaurant for a good hour) and drove normally over heavily compacted snow/ice with temps around -10. That all happened the day after I had them fitted and they saw me through several more winters.

I went to the Land Rover Experience Centre in Cheshire and few years ago. We went round in a RRS on summer tyres. I asked the ex forces lady doing the course what tyres they put them on in winter. She laughed and said they didn't change them, they can get up and down the steep hills easily in snow using the summers, or the all season tyres some of the other the cars came with.

I was surprised, but if it's good enough for them......

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

I went to the Land Rover Experience Centre in Cheshire and few years ago. We went round in a RRS on summer tyres. I asked the ex forces lady doing the course what tyres they put them on in winter. She laughed and said they didn't change them, they can get up and down the steep hills easily in snow using the summers, or the all season tyres some of the other the cars came with.

I was surprised, but if it's good enough for them......

That's fine, but my E90 would have spent the weekend stranded in Cheltenham back on the day I'm talking about, and would have not ventured out on many other occasions over the following months and years. I've been driving in snow, occasionally, all my driving life. I've never driven anything that approached what the e90 was capable of on those Nokians. The majority of our snow and ice had as much effect on them as a bit of rain does on normal tyres. As highlandpete mentioned above, I had to be very aware of other cars and assume they were on normal tyres. Last thing you want to do is brake normally and sucker a following car into over confidently slithering into your boot.

All seasons are fine, of course, but plenty of SUVs have slithered off the road on summer tyres. I passed some of them in ditches when I went out for the fun of it in the E90.

How 'summer' the compound is on the off road centre RRS is I don't know - but they probably run them on small wheels rather than the sportier 22s (guessing). The 21s on my Disco are all seasons and so are the optional 22s. RRS are the same I think.

[bishbosh]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

I went to the Land Rover Experience Centre in Cheshire and few years ago. We went round in a RRS on summer tyres. I asked the ex forces lady doing the course what tyres they put them on in winter. She laughed and said they didn't change them, they can get up and down the steep hills easily in snow using the summers, or the all season tyres some of the other the cars came with.

I was surprised, but if it's good enough for them......

Ironic that the car in front of me, attempting to get up a hill, in snow and sliding about all over the shop hitting the kerb was a LR Freelander.

I meanwhile in my rwd e91 with winters managed quite fine. That experience alone convinced me that winters are a good proposition.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by bishbosh

Ironic that the car in front of me, attempting to get up a hill, in snow and sliding about all over the shop hitting the kerb was a LR Freelander.

I meanwhile in my rwd e91 with winters managed quite fine. That experience alone convinced me that winters are a good proposition.

I get the advantages of winter tyres, I've had them, but the days are so limited where you need them, I just can't see the value.

I live and travel in a similar area to you, so I know how often it snows.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

That's fine, but my E90 would have spent the weekend stranded in Cheltenham back on the day I'm talking about, and would have not ventured out on many other occasions over the following months and years. I've been driving in snow, occasionally, all my driving life. I've never driven anything that approached what the e90 was capable of on those Nokians. The majority of our snow and ice had as much effect on them as a bit of rain does on normal tyres. As highlandpete mentioned above, I had to be very aware of other cars and assume they were on normal tyres. Last thing you want to do is brake normally and sucker a following car into over confidently slithering into your boot.

All seasons are fine, of course, but plenty of SUVs have slithered off the road on summer tyres. I passed some of them in ditches when I went out for the fun of it in the E90.

How 'summer' the compound is on the off road centre RRS is I don't know - but they probably run them on small wheels rather than the sportier 22s (guessing). The 21s on my Disco are all seasons and so are the optional 22s. RRS are the same I think.

They don't change anything. That's the point. They run them on the same wheels and tyres you do, and their job is to show you what it's capable of off-road in the same spec you are running.

[bishbosh]

Yeah, I have my winters on at the moment but I must admit it's not really been necessary this year barring the odd frosty morning.

I have them so I'll use them and at least it means the summer tyres will last a bit longer.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

They don't change anything. That's the point. They run them on the same wheels and tyres you do, and their job is to show you what it's capable of off-road in the same spec you are running.

22s are always options iirc, so smaller wheels and all-seasons - again iirc. Drek certainly had the same all seasons on his RRS AB as my D5 has.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

22s are always options iirc, so smaller wheels and all-seasons - again iirc. Drek certainly had the same all seasons on his RRS AB as my D5 has.

I went in 2013, 22's were rarer a few years ago and all seasons weren't standard across the range. I was also referring to the point you made about different compounds for the experience centre, which is definitely what they don't do. Might be different now, but all I know is back then they told me the point is to show you what the car can do in the spec it's delivered to you in. I guess if everything comes with all season tyres now, then that's what they'll be running, they weren't then though.

[HighlandPete]

[r1cey]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

I went in 2013, 22's were rarer a few years ago and all seasons weren't standard across the range. I was also referring to the point you made about different compounds for the experience centre, which is definitely what they don't do. Might be different now, but all I know is back then they told me the point is to show you what the car can do in the spec it's delivered to you in. I guess if everything comes with all season tyres now, then that's what they'll be running, they weren't then though.

Pirelli scorpion all season have been the primary tyre supplied on land rovers and range rovers for many years, and what was on my E83 X3 that I had from 2006-2013. Those tyres are excellent in mud and snow, and were great in all the snow we had back in 2010. To say summer tyres perform well in the snow is utter nonsense, as shown in Pete’s video, and why you often see flummoxed drivers in X5’s wondering why they are going nowhere fast in such conditions. Today’s larger, and wider wheels/tyres just exaggerate this even more.
Ran my 320i x-drive from 2013-2017 with dedicated winter wheels (Goodyear tyres), and even better in heavy snow, than my X3. My current M140i with dedicated winter wheels (Continental 830p’s) and 340bhp through the rear wherls copes just fine in the snow....all about the tyres, simples!!

[Stainy]

Never-mind "I wouldn't bother" - The fact is that the difference between snow and summer tyres when you need them is night and day.

It leaves the decision, do you buy a set? Financially there's not much in it, because when you're using the winter set, the summer aren't being worn down.

I too have done well over 30 years of driving, mainly on Summer tyres. I too have gotten away with it so far. However, I won't drive in winter without winters in a heavy car any more........I learned during those 30+ years

[Eddamoo]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

I went to the Land Rover Experience Centre in Cheshire and few years ago. We went round in a RRS on summer tyres. I asked the ex forces lady doing the course what tyres they put them on in winter. She laughed and said they didn't change them, they can get up and down the steep hills easily in snow using the summers, or the all season tyres some of the other the cars came with.

I was surprised, but if it's good enough for them......

Funny you say that - i was at Peckforton Castle the other day looking at Wedding venues and they had the LR experience stuff there. I had exactly the same concerns and was surprised to see them all equipped with regular tyres!!

Not a chance in hell would i be on Summers if i relied on my car in the snow around Sheffield and the Peak District. If it gets bad, a few my friends have been known to go out rescuing stuck people for fun - 90% of the stranded ones are driving 4x4's with summer tyres and are baffled by how they got stuck thinking 4wd is all they needed.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Eddamoo

Funny you say that - i was at Peckforton Castle the other day looking at Wedding venues and they had the LR experience stuff there. I had exactly the same concerns and was surprised to see them all equipped with regular tyres!!

I suppose it depends on how serious the off road driving really is.

Shepherds, crofters and gamekeepers up here, mostly run All-Terrain tyres.

I was talking to a gamekeeper a while back, about Land Rover product, "too fragile" was his comment. Most are driving Japanese kit and in these guy's hands, they take some serious abuse.

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

So close yet so far....

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by Eddamoo

Funny you say that - i was at Peckforton Castle the other day looking at Wedding venues and they had the LR experience stuff there. I had exactly the same concerns and was surprised to see them all equipped with regular tyres!!

Not a chance in hell would i be on Summers if i relied on my car in the snow around Sheffield and the Peak District. If it gets bad, a few my friends have been known to go out rescuing stuck people for fun - 90% of the stranded ones are driving 4x4's with summer tyres and are baffled by how they got stuck thinking 4wd is all they needed.

What were those regular tyres though? Every LR I have driven has come on either Pirelli Scorpion Zero or Scorpion Verde. Both all season, the latter better off road, but not an all terrain tyre.

The whole brand is predicated on all weather ability and off road ability, unlikely they would throw it away with pure road summer tyres as factory fit.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

I get the advantages of winter tyres, I've had them, but the days are so limited where you need them, I just can't see the value.

Just my experience but I think winter tyre advocates fall into broadly one of two categories.

Firstly, there are those who live in places where the weather is often poor in the winter and they've used winter tyres as a matter of course for many years and just see them as normal. That group I understand and, if I lived where they live, I'd probably think the same.

Secondly, there are those who got caught out in the very cold winter we had about ten years ago. Generally that group hadn't been users of winters but found themselves struggling to get around in what were relatively freak conditions and became converts. That group often tend to be the most vociferous about the need for winters but I'm with you Alex, most of the time I don't think they actually need them and are more trying to justify why they mess around changing wheels and tyres twice a year.

There's no question winter tyres offer significant benefits in certain conditions but, if you're driving mainly on treated roads, a competent driver should (IMHO) be able to manage in most locations in the UK without them.

[doncarlyon]

Get some all seasons... problem solved.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by doncarlyon

Get some all seasons... problem solved.

Well yes but that assumes you think there's a problem with running summer tyres all year round (which to be fair there might be if you live in rural Northumberland and commute to Newcastle!).

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by JNW1

Just my experience but I think winter tyre advocates fall into broadly one of two categories.

Firstly, there are those who live in places where the weather is often poor in the winter and they've used winter tyres as a matter of course for many years and just see them as normal. That group I understand and, if I lived where they live, I'd probably think the same.

Secondly, there are those who got caught out in the very cold winter we had about ten years ago. Generally that group hadn't been users of winters but found themselves struggling to get around in what were relatively freak conditions and became converts. That group often tend to be the most vociferous about the need for winters but I'm with you Alex, most of the time I don't think they actually need them and are more trying to justify why they mess around changing wheels and tyres twice a year.

There's no question winter tyres offer significant benefits in certain conditions but, if you're driving mainly on treated roads, a competent driver should (IMHO) be able to manage in most locations in the UK without them.

Close to that, but not quite in my case. Encountered tiny amounts of snow in my E90 at the tail end of winter and realised it was leagues worse than anything I had ever driven (courtesy of run flats not RWD). Decided it would have winters the next year. Left it late to organise and booked an appointment two weeks ahead which ended up being 24 hours before heavy snow and ice. Yes, converted and the same set saw me through four winters.

Didn't bother with winter tyres once my commute was short. Glad to have all seasons with a longer commute and would fit winters if I still had the 440i. It's nice to know you can get home whatever rather than being one of those that exits the office at the first sign of flakes falling.

[doncarlyon]

Where I live, I've had FWD cars that literally would not move in the snow on the flat (even 2cm of the stuff). So there was no way I wasn't putting winters on a RWD.

[gr4z]

Originally Posted by JNW1

Well yes but that assumes you think there's a problem with running summer tyres all year round (which to be fair there might be if you live in rural Northumberland and commute to Newcastle!).

I *nearly* bought some Michelin Cross Climates recently. Are they rubbish in the summer for the few days of the year we get temps above 25C?

[Stu In Blackpool]

My M140 was so damn useless on wet slippery roads, lighting up a corner at every heavy input, and wheel spinning out of tight turns when you had no intention of going g fast so you looked an arse, all due to being 1wd as it has no LSD.

So I ended up putting Michelin’s Cross Climate+ on for the winter and didn't bother changing them back in summer as they were excellent!

Unless you were past eight tenths into a corner and pushing the nose really hard they weren’t really that far removed from the MPSS on typical country roads. Got over 15k out of the rears too. They surprised me immensely.