[KCH1984]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

Yep, some good points there KCH. I too specced up a GV80 and found it expensive and therefore would rather have the default German/LR at that price or a Kia/Toyota at a much better price. The GV80 does carry a fair wedge of kit and good materials though, so a decent keeper.

I have mentally written off diesels (despite having a diesel V6), so guilty of reading that article from that position - diesel yadda yadda, but will be good when a petrol hybrid comes out. I'm really surprised that they are launching the Genesis brand with relatively outmoded power trains, rather than the HEVs and PHEVS in the group.

Yeah I'm guilty of looking at it from a rental perspective, putting down your hard earned for a longer term keeper then the 5 year hassle-free servicing and warranty, standard kit etc. does provide more cause for consideration.

It's a good point on the drivetrains though, given the lead they seem to have taken on the EV front I'd have expected them to be more forward looking. Maybe it's a case of waiting to see in that case, much like when the Disco Sport was launched with the old gen engines at first and the advice was pretty much wait for the Ingenium models.

[mcoops]

Originally Posted by KCH1984

I agree with this, a point you've made more succinctly than I have. At the mid-tier level, the cost of options is a far higher percentage of purchase price as well and can be off putting. I remember my wife buying a Golf with standard options like adaptive cruise that I don't think were even available on my M135i at the time, and the interior quality was also higher. Over last few years, VW has probably gone backwards and the Koreans have come forwards. Hence me leasing an eNiro over something like the ID3, but I wasn't for swapping my X5 for a Sorrento.

Good point and I agree. I was properly appalled last time I went into a VW showroom and checked out the interior quality, on everything right up to the Touraeg. There is some sort of reshuffle going on there, with Cupra increasing hollowing out the Seat 'sporty' territory, and Skoda looking a better resolved value/quality proposition than VW. I'm sure there's a plan, but I'm not sure I can quite work out what it is...

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by mcoops

Good point and I agree. I was properly appalled last time I went into a VW showroom and checked out the interior quality, on everything right up to the Touraeg. There is some sort of reshuffle going on there, with Cupra increasing hollowing out the Seat 'sporty' territory, and Skoda looking a better resolved value/quality proposition than VW. I'm sure there's a plan, but I'm not sure I can quite work out what it is...

Feels like the VW brand itself perhaps lost budget (deservedly, due to dieselgate). I've not been inside any of them, but everything I read screams "decontenting". Along the lines of hefty annual budget cuts versus long term plans, but platform costs already locked in so the only place to save is a supplier squeeze on interior materials.

Not sure how Skoda has avoided it, but perhaps sales held up through dieselgate and R&D budgets remained intact year on year.

Cupra being what Seat should have been all along is an interesting one. Fully hold my hands up to thinking that a separate Cupra brand was a waste of time, but now I think it could well have a stronger and more relevant future than Seat itself.

[JustChris]

Some interesting points here. It always come down to perceived value.

On the PHEV / EV trail I'm not ruling anything out. I still think the RAV4 PHEV is a dark horse, only one that seems to come close the halo X5 (with a huge 47 miles battery bearing the 51) for almost half the RRP. I saw some tasty lease deals £3k in and £330 month for the one down from top level Dynamic but it wasn't true. Actual monthly within say £150 of the X5 45e so then for £1-2k a year it writes itself out of the equation.

All these aspiring brands (not Toyota I know) are a cash purchase only option I often feel but it's hard to get out of the wake of the top marquee still. VW Phaeton was some engineering feat but who bought that instead of a 5er, 7er and the other German equivalents.

It's a near endless cycle that they'll never get that residual value will they?

[mcoops]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

Cupra being what Seat should have been all along is an interesting one. Fully hold my hands up to thinking that a separate Cupra brand was a waste of time, but now I think it could well have a stronger and more relevant future than Seat itself.

Definitely. And the Formentor is the really interesting one, not being based on a Seat donor car. I think they done a really good job with the branding and design touches. Here's another question - is Cupra getting right (branding, model portfolio, electrification) what Alfa cannot seem to?

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by mcoops

Definitely. And the Formentor is the really interesting one, not being based on a Seat donor car. I think they done a really good job with the branding and design touches. Here's another question - is Cupra getting right (branding, model portfolio, electrification) what Alfa cannot seem to?

Yes, they do seem to be doing what Alfa should have done. Although also what Seat have been saying since about 1991 "we are the Spanish Alfa Romeo".

Alfa is an odd one, how they keep missing the mark. They seemed to bet the farm on the 500bhp models in the latest cars, forgetting that they needed to make the 200bhp ones properly desirable.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

Yes, they do seem to be doing what Alfa should have done. Although also what Seat have been saying since about 1991 "we are the Spanish Alfa Romeo".

Alfa is an odd one, how they keep missing the mark. They seemed to bet the farm on the 500bhp models in the latest cars, forgetting that they needed to make the 200bhp ones properly desirable.

The latest Tonal (mini SUV) looks promising and of course now FCA are part of Stellantis with Peugeot - Citroen - who are progressing electrification better - should mean finally we get a car that looks like an Alfa and drives like a (good) Pug.

Or of course as with their collaboration with Nissan in the past, we could get one that looks shit and is built like an Alfa!