[jeffc83]

Great! Not a big fan of assholes I mean opinions (not you guys, the reviewers) but I'll take that with a grain of salt as IN MY BOOK, the F30 is #1, which is why I bought it versus lease. They could call it a turd on wheels and it means nothing to me because I like my turd

[domfan69]

For the last 15 years I have been driving BMW's...... E36,E46,E83,E90 and 1st generation Mini Cooper S.MY favorite all around was the E90........ but all of them had a great sport feel, steering and handling. When I drove the F30,It felt nothing like an ultimate driving machine...... horrible..... might as well buy a Honda or Toyota.... same boring drive.I realized after driving a few different BMW models that they all drove like that and had lost that special feel.For me the only car company that still has that sporty feeling was a Porsche so thats what I bought..........The Ultimate Driving Machine slogan doesn't work for BMW anymore unless you talk M cars and it used to be all BMW's.....sad

[ScarecrowBoat]

Originally Posted by mnikhil

Another article bashing the f30 with out recognizing it is 5 years old.

Summary:

9TH PLACE: INFINITI Q50 2.0T

Big on value and interior space, the Infiniti left our judges with nothing else nice to say.

8TH PLACE: VOLVO S60 T6

Stylish and safe, the Volvo can’t escape its long-past sell-by date. It’s an old car in a hyper-competitive class, and it just can’t keep up anymore.

7TH PLACE: BMW 330I

How the mighty have fallen. The reigning winner and standard-bearer of the class suffers from old age, dulled dynamics, and a lack of personality.

6TH PLACE: JAGUAR XE 25T

A new standard in the sporty-handling versus refined-ride equation, the Jaguar was undone by its tiny back seat, boring interior styling, and buggy infotainment system.

5TH PLACE: CADILLAC ATS 2.0T

The best sport sedan chassis in the class is let down by a useless back seat and barely acceptable infotainment system.

4TH PLACE: LEXUS IS 200T F SPORT

A good all-around performer, the weighty Lexus is underserved by its overstressed engine, unintuitive infotainment system, and polarizing styling.

3RD PLACE: MERCEDES-BENZ C300

The most luxurious of the field, the Mercedes needs to improve its ride quality and improve the value proposition of its pricing.

2ND PLACE: AUDI A4 2.0T QUATTRO

Smart, practical, sophisticated, and something of a Q-ship, the Audi quietly crawled its way up the podium but lacked the personality to take the top spot.

1ST PLACE: ALFA ROMEO GIULIA

Efficient, economical, quick, safe, and without question the most fun to drive, the Giulia is a car we’re willing to gamble on despite its reliability legacy and lack of cost-of -ownership data.



http://www.motortrend.com/cars/alfa-...206#sf62352206

Alfa I haven't driven so I don't know but I think it's a very good looking car. Audi is so bland but I get it, also it's at the beginning of the life cycle and the F30 is at the end. C300 is a decent car, total personal preference to consider over the F30 - interior looks nice but felt very cheap to me, also very boring to drive. Lexus, deserves no consideration and is absolutely hideous. Cadillac, give me a break, hideous inside and out - GM product. Jaguar would look nice in 2009, interior is bland and bubbly.

Motortrend can say what they want, but I was faced with these options and December and the F30 won me over hands down. Didn't consider the Alfa since it was so new, want to see how the reliability is.

I do expect BMW to address how much more poorly the F30 has aged vs the E90 with the upcoming G20 and if it isn't the clear winner I will definitely be looking strongly towards another brand when my lease is up.

[Gamb1t]

While I know the F30 is no sport sedan that its predecessors were, I am still surprised it didn't hold on to the medal spots. Getting kicked by Lexus and a Caddy should wake up the fellas at Munich. Sure an M Sport variant of the F30 would help it climb a couple of rungs, but MT capped it for a $399 lease.
This gives me hope that BMW will bring out the G-platform 3er with a vengeance.

[domfan69]

Unfortunately,I wouldn't bet on it .... with the direction they seem to be going in with all there models

[scoale]

Originally Posted by domfan69

Unfortunately,I wouldn't bet on it .... with the direction they seem to be going in with all there models

Agree. I'm hopeful, but not betting on it. Look around you next time you take your BMW in for service. You are going to see mostly SAV. The new 5 series looks enormous in person. Tons of 320 waiting to be leased. It is very evident that the focus has shifted. Far cry from E46/E39 days

[Tacoma]

Originally Posted by domfan69

For the last 15 years I have been driving BMW's...... E36,E46,E83,E90 and 1st generation Mini Cooper S.MY favorite all around was the E90........ but all of them had a great sport feel, steering and handling. When I drove the F30,It felt nothing like an ultimate driving machine...... horrible..... might as well buy a Honda or Toyota.... same boring drive.I realized after driving a few different BMW models that they all drove like that and had lost that special feel.For me the only car company that still has that sporty feeling was a Porsche so thats what I bought..........The Ultimate Driving Machine slogan doesn't work for BMW anymore unless you talk M cars and it used to be all BMW's.....sad

I too have driven every generation E36 to present and my experience has been that they have been getting softer, more road isolation and luxury, with each subsequent generation. The F3x just continued the trend.

This is clearly the direction BMW is going and I don't see them breaking this trend with the G20. The public approves, to the chagrin of performance enthusiasts, and can't get enough as BMW sets new sales record every year.

And despite finishing behind the Jag XE, Lexus IS, Caddy ATS and the Alfa Giulia, you can bet the Bimmer 3'er (of this and next generation) will outsell all of them combined by a comfortable margin.

However, my response isn't being a traitor and going to Porsche. I still need a 4-door sedan for practicality and went with the F80 and loving it.

[STR8-6IX]

people seriously need to stop dickriding the f30, it is much too outdated and truly does lack the personality to be higher up.

however, the cadillac being midpack and beating out the BMW, infiniti, and even the volvo? the cadillac does well with driving dynamics and falls short with absolutely everything else. how does this make it midpack?

I love car and driver, they are great car reviewers but i dont like seeing them be biased towards cadillac just because it is american. GM is a shit vehicle manufacturer.

[insanecoder]

These reviewers opinions are their own.. remember what they say about opinions.. everys got one like ..
Well whats the best selling sport sedan still?
drumroll please...
Whats the reason? So and so make may be better than the F30 in this and so and so maker is better than F30 in that .. but you add it all up and the total package means the F30 wins in a 10 round bout emerges as champ.. its still the overall BEST choice for a lux sports sedan and the reason we're all here interacting on this forum instead of say teh cadallac forum lol

[spuntyb]

Originally Posted by Tacoma

I too have driven every generation E36 to present and my experience has been that they have been getting softer, more road isolation and luxury, with each subsequent generation. The F3x just continued the trend.

This is clearly the direction BMW is going and I don't see them breaking this trend with the G20. The public approves, to the chagrin of performance enthusiasts, and can't get enough as BMW sets new sales record every year.

And despite finishing behind the Jag XE, Lexus IS, Caddy ATS and the Alfa Giulia, you can bet the Bimmer 3'er (of this and next generation) will outsell all of them combined by a comfortable margin.

However, my response isn't being a traitor and going to Porsche. I still need a 4-door sedan for practicality and went with the F80 and loving it.

"I too have driven every generation E36 to present and my experience has been that they have been getting softer, more road isolation and luxury, with each subsequent generation. The F3x just continued the trend."

25ish years is a heck of a long time in an automotive sense. By that measure we could say every auto maker has done the same, and I don't see how it's only BMW. Most cars on the road today are vastly different from their 1990's counterparts, particularly in regard to what we'll just call 'softness'.

Plus, I really don't agree that the F30 was a 'natural' progression. It felt like more of an abrupt turn toward a watered-down fleet car. Even base model e90s were totally decent and weren't effectively crippled by a lack options. Suddenly with the f3x, get the wrong set of options and you can end up with an overpriced Accord.

[FriskyDingo]

I've said the F30 was a relative bore all along. I wanted to stay with BMW when I replaced my 2009 335i Sedan w/ Sport Pkg, but the F chassis felt like a Buick in comparison. They don't make anything w/out an 'M' badge that even slightly raises my pulse anymore. And even some of the M vehicles leave quite a bit to be desired, imo. Pretty sad when I ended up going DOWN market to find something more enjoyable to drive from my E90. My Mk7 GTI is more fun than just about every Fxx gen car I've driven.

Ultimate Driving Machine my ass.

[AudiA4]

Originally Posted by STR8-6IX

people seriously need to stop dickriding the f30, it is much too outdated and truly does lack the personality to be higher up.

however, the cadillac being midpack and beating out the BMW, infiniti, and even the volvo? the cadillac does well with driving dynamics and falls short with absolutely everything else. how does this make it midpack?

I love car and driver, they are great car reviewers but i dont like seeing them be biased towards cadillac just because it is american. GM is a shit vehicle manufacturer.

That's a pretty bold declaration, given the fact that GM is making some of the world's finest performance cars, regardless of price.

[AudiA4]

Originally Posted by FriskyDingo

I've said the F30 was a relative bore all along. I wanted to stay with BMW when I replaced my 2009 335i Sedan w/ Sport Pkg, but the F chassis felt like a Buick in comparison. They don't make anything w/out an 'M' badge that even slightly raises my pulse anymore. And even some of the M vehicles leave quite a bit to be desired, imo. Pretty sad when I ended up going DOWN market to find something more enjoyable to drive from my E90. My Mk7 GTI is more fun than just about every Fxx gen car I've driven.

Ultimate Driving Machine my ass.

I'd be hard pressed to disagree with this. I strongly considered a new GTI in lieu of my manual 335i M Sport, because it was much more fun to drive! I ended up going with the BMW sedan almost exclusively because I felt at my sage age of 48, I didn't want to be seen getting out of a hatchback. Shallow, admittedly!

[STR8-6IX]

Originally Posted by AudiA4

That's a pretty bold declaration, given the fact that GM is making some of the world's finest performance cars, regardless of price.

they are making the "worlds finest" performance cars after how many corporate bailouts? waste of hard earned tax dollars. you can slap the finest 305 summer tires onto any car with half decent chassis/steering feel and call it one of the best performance cars. now imagine 305 width tires on any given BMW M3, and what it will do in comparison to any GM product. yes, they have improved on chassis feel, but is this seriously the only thing 12 billion dollars of tax money gets you? thats fucking ridiculous and i'm not having any of it. the interior and overall quality/fit and finish is despicable. dont even get me started on the engines, a 1970's tech pushrod engine with VVT timing and direct injection? come on man.. its fuel efficient and has good torque, but I would be amazed if a 6.2L didnt make good torque. BMW has been making a DOHC setup since the 80's.

the new GM cars do handle well in all honesty, but the quality is just not up to par for it to be considered a fine performance automobile.

[AudiA4]

Originally Posted by STR8-6IX

they are making the "worlds finest" performance cars after how many corporate bailouts? waste of hard earned tax dollars. you can slap the finest 305 summer tires onto any car with half decent chassis/steering feel and call it one of the best performance cars. now imagine 305 width tires on any given BMW M3, and what it will do in comparison to any GM product. yes, they have improved on chassis feel, but is this seriously the only thing 12 billion dollars of tax money gets you? thats fucking ridiculous and i'm not having any of it. the interior and overall quality/fit and finish is despicable. dont even get me started on the engines, a 1970's tech pushrod engine with VVT timing and direct injection? come on man.. its fuel efficient and has good torque, but I would be amazed if a 6.2L didnt make good torque. BMW has been making a DOHC setup since the 80's.

the new GM cars do handle well in all honesty, but the quality is just not up to par for it to be considered a fine performance automobile.

There are literally no legitimate auto enthusiasts or journalists who would agree with you. Seriously. Zero.

[FriskyDingo]

Originally Posted by AudiA4

I'd be hard pressed to disagree with this. I strongly considered a new GTI in lieu of my manual 335i M Sport, because it was much more fun to drive! I ended up going with the BMW sedan almost exclusively because I felt at my sage age of 48, I didn't want to be seen getting out of a hatchback. Shallow, admittedly!

Don't get me wrong, there's still plenty to like with the F30, and not only do I miss that sweet I6's smoothness and power, i still occasionally catch myself staring longingly at an Estoril or Melbourne M Sport.

At the end of the day though, it just wasn't enough to make me feel like the car was worth the extra coin. Even CPO's were 10k more, and it's not a 10k better car. Not even close.

[spuntyb]

Originally Posted by FriskyDingo

Don't get me wrong, there's still plenty to like with the F30, and not only do I miss that sweet I6's smoothness and power, i still occasionally catch myself staring longingly at an Estoril or Melbourne M Sport.

At the end of the day though, it just wasn't enough to make me feel like the car was worth the extra coin. Even CPO's were 10k more, and it's not a 10k better car. Not even close.

The GTI is fantastic. It was actually what I had decided on before I changed my mind at the last minute and got my e90 (this was the Mk6), but at the end of the day, the e90 just felt better. No way the F30 is worth the extra $ though, except in wagon form of course.

[Germanauto]

I think they were unnecessarily harsh on the 3er. I don't believe their tester was an ///M sport model. It's definitely one of the Top 3 all-rounders in its class.

With that being said, I've been wholly disappointed with the F30 generation. They completely neutered the 3-series. My E90 feels like a completely different car from a different company. BMW really dropped the ball with this generation 3-series. It does not deserve the BMW roundel.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by domfan69

For the last 15 years I have been driving BMW's...... E36,E46,E83,E90 and 1st generation Mini Cooper S.MY favorite all around was the E90........ but all of them had a great sport feel, steering and handling. When I drove the F30,It felt nothing like an ultimate driving machine...... horrible..... might as well buy a Honda or Toyota.... same boring drive.I realized after driving a few different BMW models that they all drove like that and had lost that special feel.For me the only car company that still has that sporty feeling was a Porsche so thats what I bought..........The Ultimate Driving Machine slogan doesn't work for BMW anymore unless you talk M cars and it used to be all BMW's.....sad

I feel the same which is why I never replaced my E90. It's 9 years old and I've kept it in mint condition by detailing it regularly. Beautiful black outside and terra (brown) inside. People still think it's a new car. The feeling the chassis and steering transmits to me is beautiful. It's so tied down and handles like it's on rails. It will go down as one of the greatest sedans of all time.

The only BMWs that interest me nowadays are the 240, M2, M3/4, and 4-series line.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by STR8-6IX

they are making the "worlds finest" performance cars after how many corporate bailouts? waste of hard earned tax dollars. you can slap the finest 305 summer tires onto any car with half decent chassis/steering feel and call it one of the best performance cars. now imagine 305 width tires on any given BMW M3, and what it will do in comparison to any GM product. yes, they have improved on chassis feel, but is this seriously the only thing 12 billion dollars of tax money gets you? thats fucking ridiculous and i'm not having any of it. the interior and overall quality/fit and finish is despicable. dont even get me started on the engines, a 1970's tech pushrod engine with VVT timing and direct injection? come on man.. its fuel efficient and has good torque, but I would be amazed if a 6.2L didnt make good torque. BMW has been making a DOHC setup since the 80's.

the new GM cars do handle well in all honesty, but the quality is just not up to par for it to be considered a fine performance automobile.

Pretty spot on. I grew up in SE MI and knew a lot of people who worked for GM, including my own father. It is a crap company and frankly whenever I see people driving one of their products I think they are idiots. Absolute crooks.

[FriskyDingo]

Originally Posted by spuntyb

The GTI is fantastic. It was actually what I had decided on before I changed my mind at the last minute and got my e90 (this was the Mk6), but at the end of the day, the e90 just felt better. No way the F30 is worth the extra $ though, except in wagon form of course.

I adored my E90. That car was just sublime. The steering, handling, size, design, were all near perfect. I off-loaded mine before I had any big-ticket expenses come my way- 88K miles. I would have loved to have had another to replace it with, and sometimes regret not waiting for the right one, but I was impatient and rushed the process a little more than I needed to.

[AudiA4]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Pretty spot on. I grew up in SE MI and knew a lot of people who worked for GM, including my own father. It is a crap company and frankly whenever I see people driving one of their products I think they are idiots. Absolute crooks.

Your own experience or opinions about a company or past history is irrelevant to my point about the product itself.

First of all, you can't buy a bad car anymore (for the record, Buick is ranked #2 behind Lexus by JD Power for 2017). Second, I stand by my comment that GM is making spectacular performance vehicles, by any measure, and specifically in direct comparison to Munich's finest.