06-11-2014, 06:12 PM | #23 | |
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06-11-2014, 07:36 PM | #24 | |
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My mentality is, what's 100 odd bucks for the extra change in the cost of a 50+k dollar car. Very simple, reasonably cheap, and worth even the tiniest benefit to me.
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06-11-2014, 08:28 PM | #25 | |
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06-12-2014, 07:45 AM | #26 | |
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If you ever want to go crazy learning too much about oil check out www.bobistheoilguy.com
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06-12-2014, 08:26 AM | #27 | |
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UOA avg. Duration 3K 5K 7K 10K Fe ppm / 1k miles 3.2 2.5 2.5 2.3 It is in fact true to say that when you change oil frequently the UOA will exhibit a higher Fe wear metal count. There are two reasonable explanations to this phenomenon of elevated wear metals shortly after an OCI; residual oil and tribo-chemical interaction. When you change oil, no matter how much you “drip-drip-drip” the oil into the catch basin, there is always a moderate amount left in the engine. Ryan Stark of Blackstone estimates up to 20% of the old oil remains, more or less, depending upon the unique traits of each piece of equipment. So, when you begin your new OCI, you really are not starting at zero ppm. Additionally, there is indication that wear is elevated after each OCI because of chemical reactions of fresh additive packages. This claim is supported via an SAE study done by Ford and Conoco (ref #1) that surmised this very phenomenon, and additionally refers to a former study of the same conclusion predating it." It's in the middle of http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/used-o...hat-is-normal/ The subject is not settled by any means... |
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06-12-2014, 08:55 AM | #28 |
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Ha! Perfect! Very interesting result. I'll have to read back through a bunch of that again. Good to see a source supporting it too. Thanks!
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06-12-2014, 09:00 AM | #29 |
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Interestingly, further down after that he explains that the metal analysis does not correspond to wear rate. Basically states that wear rate is unaffected until the oil is compromised in some fashion. Does comment that soot, etc are another matter as well.
Edit: Reading through the whole thing he kind of contradicts himself on the wear rate/metal content a few times. Basically says that it isn't statistically significant, but that it correlates. Essentially says, "It won't hurt the engine to change oil frequently, but definitely doesn't help/isn't better than longer intervals".
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2023 CB X5 45e 2018 i3 94 2014 Cayman S Last edited by sdhotwn; 06-12-2014 at 09:30 AM.. |
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06-13-2014, 09:22 PM | #30 |
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I can appreciate the varying opinions, and I somewhat recognize that what BMW claims for break in period may not be gospel.
With that said, I'd have a hard to agreeing to deviate very far off of BMWs recommendations. They are by far in the best position to render an opinion on how to break in one of their own engines, and have remained consistent over the years. You could produce massive amounts of internet opinion, based on detailed studies and educated thoughts...I still wouldn't think that one of the worlds most recognized engine manufacturers has got it wrong. Thats just my $0.02. I sell insurance for a living, so what do I know. I'll take my leased 335, drive it somewhat easy for the first 1200 miles (which will go by in a few weeks), then its on. Besides, our cars produce so much low end torque, you can still haul ass without stretching much above 4000 rpm. |
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06-13-2014, 09:26 PM | #31 | |
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06-13-2014, 09:43 PM | #32 | |
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07-12-2014, 11:08 AM | #33 | |
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When I took it to the dealership for the 600 mile warranty service, they turned it over to a tech who had just started working there and didn't know me. He took a look at the tires, which were shagged all the way out to the sidewall, and called over the service manager, saying, "WTF has this guy been doing with this thing?" The service manager just chuckled and said, "Heh, heh, heh... Bob's been to the track." |
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07-15-2014, 04:51 PM | #34 |
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During my first test drive of the 435i xDrive, the BMW Genius that took me on the drive commented on how manual's instructions for break-in is to prevent new owners from crashing their car. His words are that the engine comes pre-broken-in during manufacturing, and I should drive my car aggressive once I get as the computer can create a more aggressive profile.
I was surprised as he basically went against BMW's instructions. However I do believe that the initial break-in of the engine would be done in their engine plant. |
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07-15-2014, 05:34 PM | #35 |
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I believe the first time the engine fires in anger is when it rolls off the line with the fluids added to the finished vehicle... no break in other than to see that the crank turns and nothing rattles ..
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07-15-2014, 08:02 PM | #36 |
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Correct based on what they said when I toured the factory. They rotate it/verify it works is okay, but it really doesn't get run in earnest, and definitely not broken in. Videos of the factory process on youtube confirm that as well i think.
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07-15-2014, 11:01 PM | #37 | |
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The n55 and all BMW diesels are made in Austria. This site says each engine is run-up by electricity (no mass emissions to choke the townsfolk). This is for qc checks. Couldn't be to seat the rings since there is no internal combustion to press the rings against the cylinder walls. The site also says some engines are randomly selected and run at full power for an extended period. I think this is also for qc. Clearly BMW doesn't seem to think all its engines need a hard break-in. http://www.bmw-steyr.com/index.html. What floydarogers said earlier about the poor antiwear protection of fresh oil is correct. This well-known study: http://papers.sae.org/2007-01-4133/. It helps to read the paper to get a full appreciation. Only $25 from SAE. Be the first on your block to get one. It all revolves around the time (about 3000 mi) it takes for the anti-wear additives to become fully functional. A lot of motor heads have a hard time accepting the findings - it's so counter intuitive - but it's proven chemistry. Eschew those early, unnecessary, and too frequent oil changes. Treasure and keep your aged oil. It's slick(er) and protects your engine better.
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07-16-2014, 11:40 AM | #38 |
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We'll I be dammed. I always thought and expected that each engine would be throughly tested before being released into vehicle production. You would think they would run it up to leak check the engine, check the emissions, and engine performance/telemetry. I guess with modern technology, and high tolerances in manufacturing, testing is not as critical.
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07-16-2014, 11:57 AM | #39 |
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Modern engines have great tolerances, and the engine block etc really is just an air pump. So measuring the torque to electrically rotate the engine, and measuring air pressure at intake and exhaust and ignition port will give you 95%+ on coverage I think.
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07-16-2014, 06:36 PM | #40 |
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I youtube'd a video for the N20 build, and at the end it looks as if they test the engine.
Testing begins at the 3min 40sec mark. Not sure if they are doing it electrically or actually running it with fuel. It does appear that a robot attaches intake/exhaust manifold, as well as maybe fuel lines as I see flex hoses. |
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07-16-2014, 07:02 PM | #41 | |
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Regardless, that's not much of a test as there is no cooling taking place for jacket water, etc... plus based on the production line sequence, it doesn't have the fluids in it at that station yet, and there is no real start sequence, making it look more like air pressure driven....
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08-02-2014, 08:43 AM | #42 | |
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"The oil consumption should be measured after a distance of 7,500 km at the earliest, as the process of running in the engine will not have been essentially completed and the engine oil consumption stabilised until this distance has been covered." |
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08-02-2014, 11:55 AM | #43 | |
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i believe this 7500km thing is because ppl keep bothering dealers about oil consumption and they got sick of entertaining us |
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08-02-2014, 12:50 PM | #44 | |
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I'd expand more on this, but it's a nice day and I think I'll head out under the shade of the coconut tree in the back yard. It's been a great growing year.. there must be at least 60 mature nuts on the tree..
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