[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Pond

There is the caveat that is nursing home care. If that is needed it will drain even the wealthiest of us down to nothing in a few years. Thee is little in the world that can drain a bank balance quicker than nursing homes.

£2,500 a week anyone?

The irony is that nursing home fees are actually another tax, as they inflate the costs for those with money, as the Local Authorities pay very little for the same care. It's like being 'taxed at source'.

£2500 a week I assume is nursing rather than just care, maybe with a dementia specialism?

Not that I am looking at these now....

[Danj94]

I would probably increase all tax by 25% for people who have overpriced tacky gold wheels on their car.

I tried to resist but couldn't... sorry forum members.

[crAbb]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Just knew you wouldnt be able to resist - and you are quite right, there are days when I dont like myself...

Thank you

[Nibbles]

I'll accept whatever tax rises the government comes up with as I don't really have any other choice.

However I'd like to see them tackle how trusts are used to avoid IHT on large estates, I'd also like them to change the agricultural exemption to only include people that own and run the farms, not wealthy landowners who have tenant farmers but can pass on hundreds of thousands of acres of land to their kids with no IHT.

[AndyMD]

I think petrol duty will increase. Petrol has suddenly gone down in price for no good reason. It's dropped about 15p a litre in two weeks. That's so when the duty goes on it, they escape the press of 'Petrol prices now at £1.69 a litre' on the front pages.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by AndyMD

I think petrol duty will increase. Petrol has suddenly gone down in price for no good reason. It's dropped about 15p a litre in two weeks. That's so when the duty goes on it, they escape the press of 'Petrol prices now at £1.69 a litre' on the front pages.

Either that or their is an investigation that they didnt pass on the duty cut properly last time....

[crAbb]

Originally Posted by Nibbles

I'll accept whatever tax rises the government comes up with as I don't really have any other choice.

However I'd like to see them tackle how trusts are used to avoid IHT on large estates, I'd also like them to change the agricultural exemption to only include people that own and run the farms, not wealthy landowners who have tenant farmers but can pass on hundreds of thousands of acres of land to their kids with no IHT.

You've missed the flaw with this proposal. You assume these landowners have the liquid means to cover large IHT bills. I shoot with half a dozen 'landowners'. In all cases, they would need to sell land to cover a large IHT bill. What happens to their tenants when this happens? What if it takes years to sell the land?

[Nibbles]

Originally Posted by crAbb

You've missed the flaw with this proposal. You assume these landowners have the liquid means to cover large IHT bills. I shoot with half a dozen 'landowners'. In all cases, they would need to sell land to cover a large IHT bill. What happens to their tenants when this happens? What if it takes years to sell the land?

The same as would happen if someone had commercial buildings or residential property with tenants and can’t pay the inheritance tax. Something gets sold with the tenancy agreement in place to pay the tax. Why should they get a free pass?

[crAbb]

Originally Posted by Nibbles

The same as would happen if someone had commercial buildings or residential property with tenants and can’t pay the inheritance tax. Something gets sold with the tenancy agreement in place to pay the tax. Why should they get a free pass?

You can obtain business relief on buildings, unlisted shares and machinery up to 100%.

[Nibbles]

Originally Posted by crAbb

You can obtain business relief on buildings, unlisted shares and machinery up to 100%.

Yep I didn’t realise you could do that. That relief should be removed as well as the land one.

[gac]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

£2500 a week I assume is nursing rather than just care, maybe with a dementia specialism?

Not that I am looking at these now....

I believe (though could be wrong) that my gran's dementia care was more like £4000 a week. I'm sure like with most privatised things, there's a spread of prices on the market though, so the £1500 could just be the difference between the "cheapest" place and a "nice" place.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by gac

I believe (though could be wrong) that my gran's dementia care was more like £4000 a week. I'm sure like with most privatised things, there's a spread of prices on the market though, so the £1500 could just be the difference between the "cheapest" place and a "nice" place.

£4000 and up was what I understood for dementia care too...

[crAbb]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

£4000 and up was what I understood for dementia care too...

You are correct. It depends on the type of care. We paid just under £3,000 a week for my mothers palliative care, in the last months of her life.

[Pond]

Originally Posted by crAbb

You are correct. It depends on the type of care. We paid just under £3,000 a week for my mothers palliative care, in the last months of her life.

It also depends on location aswell IME. The South East rates do seem to be higher than other parts of the Country.

My mother didn't need any particularly special care and her rates were £2,300 a week in a nice place in South Oxon. Luckily for her (us as it turned out) the NHS paid her bills for the 4 months she lived. I'm not sure why TBH.

[Watsey]

This bring the issue of taxes into stark focus :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cewlwkg82ggo

The UK, and other countries, are the definition and demonstration of living beyond one's means.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Watsey

This bring the issue of taxes into stark focus :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cewlwkg82ggo

The UK, and other countries, are the definition and demonstration of living beyond one's means.

The problem is, getting to within ones means is really rather unpalatable... and the political cost now is huge but the benefits come later, so no one wants to grasp that particular nettle... its the opposite of what a politician wants which is jam today and pain tomorrow (well in about 5 years time!)

[Pond]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

The problem is, getting to within ones means is really rather unpalatable... and the political cost now is huge but the benefits come later, so no one wants to grasp that particular nettle... its the opposite of what a politician wants which is jam today and pain tomorrow (well in about 5 years time!)

Exactly; which is why nothing useful ever gets done anymore. Kicking all the cans down the road is easier for them, then the next lot can blame the previous lot and do it all over again.

In the meantime, throw a few billion at the NHS and education to make them look good in the short term without any real difference to either.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

I think we need to use tax to change behaviours so as well as the sugar tax on soft drinks, minimum pricing on alcohol, tax on ultra processed foods, foods too high in salt etc.... and I'd include fuel duty in that...

I broadly agree with the other things you mention but the problem I see with fuel duty is our society has been built around car usage for decades and simply switching away from an ICE vehicle isn't yet an affordable option for many. Therefore, in practice I think increasing fuel duty could prove quite regressive as it would just increase the cost burden for a lot of less affluent people who'd have little or no realistic choice other than to continue to use their ICE car....

[Pond]

Originally Posted by JNW1

I broadly agree with the other things you mention but the problem I see with fuel duty is our society has been built around car usage for decades and simply switching away from an ICE vehicle isn't yet an affordable option for many. Therefore, in practice I think increasing fuel duty could prove quite regressive as it would just increase the cost burden for a lot of less affluent people who'd have little or no realistic choice other than to continue to use their ICE car....

Well now we have a left wing Government, they will probably means test any rise, so will come up with a 'fuel benefit' for the poor.
IE if you have never worked in your life and own a car (which seems to be the case these days), you can fill out a form and get extra bennys to offset your outlay.
Why anyone who doesn't work needs a car is a mystery to me, but apparently I'm out of touch.
Oh, hang on, I know. It's so they can get to the airport to go on their foreign holidays. Silly me.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by JNW1

I broadly agree with the other things you mention but the problem I see with fuel duty is our society has been built around car usage for decades and simply switching away from an ICE vehicle isn't yet an affordable option for many. Therefore, in practice I think increasing fuel duty could prove quite regressive as it would just increase the cost burden for a lot of less affluent people who'd have little or no realistic choice other than to continue to use their ICE car....

Agreed....but....back in the day it used to go up each year with inflation or even above inflation (6% above under Gordon Brown in the 90s for you youngsters who cant remember).... but it seems to have been frozen since 2011...In a world where we are short of funding and want to drive a greener future that seems odd. I get putting it up might increase costs, reduce growth and therefoe potentially reduce tax take,.... but clawing back some of the freeze would seem like a start and maybe make people think about how they transport goods, whether they need to take little Jimmy to school in the car, should they shop on line and have all those couriers driving round etc etc

[F30Andy]

If they legalise it.........

Not only would I be willing to pay tax on it, I would open my own dispensary and farm and also pay tax on those.

There are black holes that the government could fill if they wanted to

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

Agreed....but....back in the day it used to go up each year with inflation or even above inflation (6% above under Gordon Brown in the 90s for you youngsters who cant remember).... but it seems to have been frozen since 2011...In a world where we are short of funding and want to drive a greener future that seems odd. I get putting it up might increase costs, reduce growth and therefoe potentially reduce tax take,.... but clawing back some of the freeze would seem like a start and maybe make people think about how they transport goods, whether they need to take little Jimmy to school in the car, should they shop on line and have all those couriers driving round etc etc

I just think it would be both regressive and inflationary and I don't think either of those things is desirable. I daresay at the margin there's some discretionary mileage that might be discouraged and eliminated but I can't see it amounting to much in the grand scheme of things....