[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by bimmer ///man

Why would a car not be able to be ewg if the dme and supporting hardware are used? The biggest hurdle is aligning the used ewg dme to a pwg car. I have not found anything that points to ewg extending into other control systems past the dme. The simple hardware/software change is probably why some people that have a build date that falls in the ewg cutoff are sometimes surprised to find pwg, assembly line used what was available.

A new dme may not even be required, I was looking at the newer version for the ability to run the s55 fueling.

I'm pretty sure the MEVD172G is needed to have the circuitry to read the EWG wastegate position.

It should be fine. The only grey area that nobody seems to know is how different the flow characteristics are between Euro 5 and Euro 6 injectors.

I'm still considering EWG swap if the right deal comes up on DME and turbo. Gotta change downpipe too.

[TEST DRYVER]

I don't know guys... I have a 2015 335i M-sport (EWG) with FBO and a Stage 2 BM3 91 octane OTS tune. The car pulls hard when running properly, but I know the 91 octane is holding me back. Best I've been able to pull with a large CSF fmic, AR design catted (200 cell) downpipe, AFE Intake, and VRSF charge pipes is about 12 psi of boost. People running my same setup on my car with 93 octane are pulling 14+ psi. I believe if I ran against my same build on a PWG car thats running 93 octane with a 93 octane tune, they would either keep up right next to me, or even take me. Fuel can make or mask a lot situations. I know this doesn't answer the temperamental ops question, but all I'm getting at is that there are different ways to attack the problem of extracting the most power out of your car. Some of those ways have already been addressed here in this thread. There comes a certain point where going to the next step up on your current platform starts to get real expensive and doesn't make financial sense. I know there's still more power to be extracted from my car, but for me, once I start really considering upgrading turbos, supporting mods for the increased fuel, etc... That's when it's time for me to start shopping for an F80 or something else altogether. Don't get me wrong, I've had 2 cars at stage 3, and they were both a ton of fun, but the expense it took to get there and the constant maintenance to keeping it running strong, were just too much.

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by TEST DRYVER

I don't know guys... I have a 2015 335i M-sport (EWG) with FBO and a Stage 2 BM3 91 octane OTS tune. The car pulls hard when running properly, but I know the 91 octane is holding me back. Best I've been able to pull with a large CSF fmic, AR design catted (200 cell) downpipe, AFE Intake, and VRSF charge pipes is about 12 psi of boost. People running my same setup on my car with 93 octane are pulling 14+ psi. I believe if I ran against my same build on a PWG car thats running 93 octane with a 93 octane tune, they would either keep up right next to me, or even take me. Fuel can make or mask a lot situations. I know this doesn't answer the temperamental ops question, but all I'm getting at is that there are different ways to attack the problem of extracting the most power out of your car. Some of those ways have already been addressed here in this thread. There comes a certain point where going to the next step up on your current platform starts to get real expensive and doesn't make financial sense. I know there's still more power to be extracted from my car, but for me, once I start really considering upgrading turbos, supporting mods for the increased fuel, etc... That's when it's time for me to start shopping for an F80 or something else altogether. Don't get me wrong, I've had 2 cars at stage 3, and they were both a ton of fun, but the expense it took to get there and the constant maintenance to keeping it running strong, were just too much.

Of course the turbo is only one of many factors to performance. A PWG turbo on 93 fuel and an EWG turbo on 91 is hardly a fair comparison to demonstrate an EWG turbo not being worth it though.

My reasoning is:

- Stage 1 sized turbo but with OEM reliability
- EWG uses closed loop position model and is easier to tune boost control
- EWG has better boost control
- MEVD172G has an MPPK tune available that's an excellent starting point for a tune

[TEST DRYVER]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

Of course the turbo is only one of many factors to performance. A PWG turbo on 93 fuel and an EWG turbo on 91 is hardly a fair comparison to demonstrate an EWG turbo not being worth it though.

My reasoning is:

- Stage 1 sized turbo but with OEM reliability
- EWG uses closed loop position model and is easier to tune boost control
- EWG has better boost control
- MEVD172G has an MPPK tune available that's an excellent starting point for a tune

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the MPPK tune can't be used in conjunction with aftermarket tunes. The aftermarket tune overrides the MPPK, rendering it useless. Now if you plan to slightly mod the car with basic bolt-ons and keep only the MPPK tune (usually for warranty and maximum reliability reasons), then that's a safe way to increase power modestly.
I've learned a lot from this forum about PWG and EWG. When I initially bought the car for my wife, I didn't study it enough to understand the differences between the two. The ZF transmission is so shockingly good, I would of likely been happy with either a PWG or EWG.

At one point, I bought an E90 335i with the Steptronic (I bought a Steptronic instead of a manual so My wife could drive it), and I didn't like that car at all! It made great power, but I now realize the transmission in the E90 was the weak point. I believe the E90 needed either a manual or DCT for it to feel effective. I kept the E90 for less than a year before selling it to buy a well modified 05 GT Mustang with a 5 speed manual. Make fun all you want, that was the first Mustang I've owned, and it was incredibly fun to drive! This wasn't your average Mustang, I'll try to include a pic so you all don't think I'm completely crazy...

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by TEST DRYVER

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the MPPK tune can't be used in conjunction with aftermarket tunes. The aftermarket tune overrides the MPPK, rendering it useless. Now if you plan to slightly mod the car with basic bolt-ons and keep only the MPPK tune (usually for warranty and maximum reliability reasons), then that's a safe way to increase power modestly.
I've learned a lot from this forum about PWG and EWG. When I initially bought the car for my wife, I didn't study it enough to understand the differences between the two. The ZF transmission is so shockingly good, I would of likely been happy with either a PWG or EWG.

At one point, I bought an E90 335i with the Steptronic (I bought a Steptronic instead of a manual so My wife could drive it), and I didn't like that car at all! It made great power, but I now realize the transmission in the E90 was the weak point. I believe the E90 needed either a manual or DCT for it to feel effective. I kept the E90 for less than a year before selling it to buy a well modified 05 GT Mustang with a 5 speed manual. Make fun all you want, that was the first Mustang I've owned, and it was incredibly fun to drive! This wasn't your average Mustang, I'll try to include a pic so you all don't think I'm completely crazy...

I tune my own cars. MPPK is a way better starting point than stock and EWG is easier to tune, saving a lot of tuning time.

Why not teach the wife to drive manual? People saying they got auto so the wife can drive is my #1 pet hate!

[TEST DRYVER]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

I tune my own cars. MPPK is a way better starting point than stock and EWG is easier to tune, saving a lot of tuning time.

Why not teach the wife to drive manual? People saying they got auto so the wife can drive is my #1 pet hate!

Good point! So I've owned close to a dozen manual performance cars since I met my wife. She's driven most of them in a parking lot, but that's as far as it went. She simply wasn't interested. Then I decided to lease a 2018 718 Cayman! That car had to be manual! So after we spent time building the specs together on the Cayman, I told her she had to learn to drive manual before the car arrives, or else she'd never be able to drive it (I had about 6 months to teach her before the 718 arrived). She thought that the Cayman was so pretty, she'd be willing to properly learn how to drive a manual. I started teaching her on the current manual transmission car I had at the time. That car happened to be a Mk 6 Golf R APR Stage lll with 380hp to the wheels and 365lbs of torque (this was a fully modded car in pristine condition with FBO, larger turbo, suspension, brakes, wheels, etc... I was running a Stage 3 clutch that was designed to handle 500ft lbs of torque. Voila! She learned! It took 5 months, several in-car fights, more grey hair, and a new $1,700 stage 3 clutch (by the time she was done learning, the clutch was fried). But I figured that much... I knew I'd have to replace the clutch after she was done practicing, what I didn't want is to replace (or even know how much it is to replace) a clutch on a new Porsche.
Cool part is, she now drives the 718 to work half the week, while I drive the 335i, then we switch.

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by TEST DRYVER

Good point! So I've owned close to a dozen manual performance cars since I met my wife. She's driven most of them in a parking lot, but that's as far as it went. She simply wasn't interested. Then I decided to lease a 2018 718 Cayman! That car had to be manual! So after we spent time building the specs together on the Cayman, I told her she had to learn to drive manual before the car arrives, or else she'd never be able to drive it (I had about 6 months to teach her before the 718 arrived). She thought that the Cayman was so pretty, she'd be willing to properly learn how to drive a manual. I started teaching her on the current manual transmission car I had at the time. That car happened to be a Mk 6 Golf R APR Stage lll with 380hp to the wheels and 365lbs of torque (this was a fully modded car in pristine condition with FBO, larger turbo, suspension, brakes, wheels, etc... I was running a Stage 3 clutch that was designed to handle 500ft lbs of torque. Voila! She learned! It took 5 months, several in-car fights, more grey hair, and a new $1,700 stage 3 clutch (by the time she was done learning, the clutch was fried). But I figured that much... I knew I'd have to replace the clutch after she was done practicing, what I didn't want is to replace (or even know how much it is to replace) a clutch on a new Porsche.
Cool part is, she now drives the 718 to work half the week, while I drive the 335i, then we switch.

[zinner]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

Why not teach the wife to drive manual? People saying they got auto so the wife can drive is my #1 pet hate!

Just curious did you teach your wife to drive a manual?

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by zinner

Just curious did you teach your wife to drive a manual?

I didn't say it would necessarily be easy . Just don't give up.

[TEST DRYVER]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

I didn't say it would necessarily be easy . Just don't give up.

It's not easy... In fact we went out on our date night a couple of months ago (mind you, at this point she's been driving the Porsche on her own to work and back for over 6 months, but she never drives the Porsche further than 7 miles from the house. Not my rule, that's just what she's comfortable with), and we were about 20 minutes away from the house, maybe 1am on a weeknight. I asked her to drive home, as practice. Neither of us were drinking, I just wanted to see how far she'd progressed. First off, it's brutal watching an amateur beat up on your clutch and shift linkage on your new sports car, but whatever. I love her, and it's only a fkn car, right? NOPE! She dropped into 1st gear while the car was moving well over 30mph! She did it twice!!! She said "sorry", as if that would fix the over-rev or clutch wear. She did this because she thought she was going into 3rd, not 1st. The gearing is so tall in the first 3 gears of the 718 that its bordering on silly. There's simply no reason to be in 3rd at 30mph in that car anyway. Moral of the story; I'm better off not knowing how she drives the car, but I should be happy that she's driving it altogether.
I guess it's all fair. I traded her beloved X5 on a 335i M-sport and immediately started modifying it. She would of been beyond happy with my keeping her X5 or trading it on a 328i, but I personally didn't want to drive either car, so... I have her 335i to a complete Stage 2 with VMR wheels and Michellin PS4S tires =) way beyond overkill for her, but completely entertaining to me, so it's all fair I guess. That, and I broke the rear axle in a launch mode snafu right after the mods were applied.
I included a before and after

[enemigo13]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

Of course the turbo is only one of many factors to performance. A PWG turbo on 93 fuel and an EWG turbo on 91 is hardly a fair comparison to demonstrate an EWG turbo not being worth it though.

My reasoning is:

- Stage 1 sized turbo but with OEM reliability
- EWG uses closed loop position model and is easier to tune boost control
- EWG has better boost control
- MEVD172G has an MPPK tune available that's an excellent starting point for a tune

why do you think all stage1 pwg turbos are less reliable than ewg oem?

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by enemigo13

why do you think all stage1 pwg turbos are less reliable than ewg oem?

The aftermarket turbos we have available are not built the same as OEM turbos. 90% of people, maybe more, get lucky with a good set on the N55 platform. I don't want to risk falling into the other 10%. I've seen two separate people in Australia with defective turbos from the manufacturer starting with P and we don't have that many people running them here so that's not confidence inspiring. Also there is no guarantee that I won't be getting a turbo built from a 9.5 year old 250,000km core then I have to send my later revision 4 year old 40,000km core back.

I'd possibly consider a Kinugawa Stg1. They're not better but at least they're only AUD$950 shipped during an ebay special. The other option is just to go big and go straight to a TTE550 but they're very expensive.

Target market stays very wide when selling the car if changing to EWG turbo. You can still sell to people who do not consider buying modified cars. It's simply "upgraded to BMW's larger, newer, electronic wastegate turbo and MPPK tune".

[harkes]

I know a guy here in China that has done the conversion. He gave me a price of ~3000USD.

[IK6SPEED]

Originally Posted by harkes

I know a guy here in China that has done the conversion. He gave me a price of ~3000USD.

Did that include all parts or just labor?

[enemigo13]

when I had PWG N55 I've used TTH450 from turbo technic hamburg. Their upgraded turbo was based on _new_ BorgWarner pwg turbo, it was not cheap (~2keur), but everything was brand new including actuator and diverter. never had any problems with this turbo, but my experience was ~10kkm only.

Originally Posted by bradsm87

The aftermarket turbos we have available are not built the same as OEM turbos. 90% of people, maybe more, get lucky with a good set on the N55 platform. I don't want to risk falling into the other 10%. I've seen two separate people in Australia with defective turbos from the manufacturer starting with P and we don't have that many people running them here so that's not confidence inspiring. Also there is no guarantee that I won't be getting a turbo built from a 9.5 year old 250,000km core then I have to send my later revision 4 year old 40,000km core back.

I'd possibly consider a Kinugawa Stg1. They're not better but at least they're only AUD$950 shipped during an ebay special. The other option is just to go big and go straight to a TTE550 but they're very expensive.

Target market stays very wide when selling the car if changing to EWG turbo. You can still sell to people who do not consider buying modified cars. It's simply "upgraded to BMW's larger, newer, electronic wastegate turbo and MPPK tune".

[harkes]

Originally Posted by IK6SPEED

Did that include all parts or just labor?

All included. I expect it can be done cheaper... I am on Rev 17 now with my custom map and I fear there is still some way to go...

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by enemigo13

when I had PWG N55 I've used TTH450 from turbo technic hamburg. Their upgraded turbo was based on _new_ BorgWarner pwg turbo, it was not cheap (~2keur), but everything was brand new including actuator and diverter. never had any problems with this turbo, but my experience was ~10kkm only.

2k euro is way too much for a simple compressor wheel upgrade with stock sized turbine. I'd prefer to get a used EWG turbo snd DME for that.

[rVito]

sorry for bumping an old thread, but Im going through a PWG to EWG conversion and ran into an issue. My car is 2012 f30 335i rwd, and Ive had a spun rod bearing. I swapped engine, injectors, full engine harness, ewg turbo and dme from a 2015 xdrive 335i. VIN is matched to the car. Now the car starts, runs fine for a moment and then 2 and 5 cylinders stop working (error: 2 and 5 cylinder misfire). Now, if I clear this error, engine starts running perfectly again and car drives as it should, but I would need to keep clearing this error anytime I start the car. Coils, plugs, injectors have been checked, sensors as well. Engine compression is great.

[n55david]

Originally Posted by rVito

sorry for bumping an old thread, but Im going through a PWG to EWG conversion and ran into an issue. My car is 2012 f30 335i rwd, and Ive had a spun rod bearing. I swapped engine, injectors, full engine harness, ewg turbo and dme from a 2015 xdrive 335i. VIN is matched to the car. Now the car starts, runs fine for a moment and then 2 and 5 cylinders stop working (error: 2 and 5 cylinder misfire). Now, if I clear this error, engine starts running perfectly again and car drives as it should, but I would need to keep clearing this error anytime I start the car. Coils, plugs, injectors have been checked, sensors as well. Engine compression is great.

the tuning and coding are all different

[rVito]

Originally Posted by Phantom10R

the tuning and coding are all different

Could you please elaborate?

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by rVito

sorry for bumping an old thread, but Im going through a PWG to EWG conversion and ran into an issue. My car is 2012 f30 335i rwd, and Ive had a spun rod bearing. I swapped engine, injectors, full engine harness, ewg turbo and dme from a 2015 xdrive 335i. VIN is matched to the car. Now the car starts, runs fine for a moment and then 2 and 5 cylinders stop working (error: 2 and 5 cylinder misfire). Now, if I clear this error, engine starts running perfectly again and car drives as it should, but I would need to keep clearing this error anytime I start the car. Coils, plugs, injectors have been checked, sensors as well. Engine compression is great.

MAF?

[rVito]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

MAF?

Will try disconnecting it. Car is fitted with bms sports intake, btw