[eboosted]

Please pm me the price of a FMIC kit for the bmw m235i euro version

[Fast400]

Anyone else log?

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by Fast400

Anyone else log?

Look up Darkholds post, he owned several intercoolers including Forge and Wagner, the ATM was superior in every aspect AIT control, pressure drop , build quality and finish. I see your running the Rev9/Wagner as with all other stepped core copies(we invented the stepped core concept back in 2006 on the E series BMW originally sold by Helix) utilize 2 cores stacked together at the stepped section where ours is a single core built specifically for each application. There is a very high likelihood of leaks at this junction and /or the loss of some or all of the 2 charge rows where they weld the cores together(That's if they weld the plates together) we will gladly submit our Intercooler up against any other in INDEPENDANT testing but as has been previously stated that has already been done by an active member of this forum.

[Fast400]

Those were partial logs at variety of temps.

http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced...20Test%20.html

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by Fast400

Those were partial logs at variety of temps.

http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced...20Test%20.html

Our logs on our GB post are done with a dedicated datalogging system that monitored Stock vs ATM turbo ambient temps, outlet temps, post IC temps, and pre and post pressure(pressure drop). Our tests are done same day, same car and on the same stretch of road with coolant and starting AIT as close to the same as possible. Our graphs are generated off the raw data not MS paint graphs commonly seen. It's doubtful an enthusiast will have thus much $ tied up in datalogging equipment, my business partner is an airlfow/ heat management engineer so we also have a FlIR camera, air speed and mass air measurement devices etc as well.

If you can please post pics of the inside of your Intercooler where the 2 cores come together, if they are welded you will probably see that some or all of the charge rows melted/blocked off, if not you may have a good size boost leak along that edge. either way I'd do a leak test- there's a reason the only time we ever did it that way was on our initial prototype back in 2006, these are the interesting things you find out when you actually design vs copy...

[Fast400]

:I'm sure your intercooler is a great product, but that doesn't make other intercoolers worse. I have no problems trusting the build quality of the rev9.
If you'd like to send me yours, I'll gladly review on the Autobahn also.

[obriennathaniel]

Originally Posted by TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management

Look up Darkholds post, he owned several intercoolers including Forge and Wagner, the ATM was superior in every aspect AIT control, pressure drop , build quality and finish. I see your running the Rev9/Wagner as with all other stepped core copies(we invented the stepped core concept back in 2006 on the E series BMW originally sold by Helix) utilize 2 cores stacked together at the stepped section where ours is a single core built specifically for each application. There is a very high likelihood of leaks at this junction and /or the loss of some or all of the 2 charge rows where they weld the cores together(That's if they weld the plates together) we will gladly submit our Intercooler up against any other in INDEPENDANT testing but as has been previously stated that has already been done by an active member of this forum.

Originally Posted by TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management

Our logs on our GB post are done with a dedicated datalogging system that monitored Stock vs ATM turbo ambient temps, outlet temps, post IC temps, and pre and post pressure(pressure drop). Our tests are done same day, same car and on the same stretch of road with coolant and starting AIT as close to the same as possible. Our graphs are generated off the raw data not MS paint graphs commonly seen. It's doubtful an enthusiast will have thus much $ tied up in datalogging equipment, my business partner is an airlfow/ heat management engineer so we also have a FlIR camera, air speed and mass air measurement devices etc as well.

If you can please post pics of the inside of your Intercooler where the 2 cores come together, if they are welded you will probably see that some or all of the charge rows melted/blocked off, if not you may have a good size boost leak along that edge. either way I'd do a leak test- there's a reason the only time we ever did it that way was on our initial prototype back in 2006, these are the interesting things you find out when you actually design vs copy...

Love the all the history!!! I had no idea, now im even more proud to own my ATM

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by Fast400

:I'm sure your intercooler is a great product, but that doesn't make other intercoolers worse. I have no problems trusting the build quality of the rev9.
If you'd like to send me yours, I'll gladly review on the Autobahn also.

Seriously not trying to argue BUT you have been posting on this forum in an attempt to sway people to purchase the REV9 and came in here looking for data to support this, going so far as to link me to a how to on datalogging. I told you where to find our data and the way in which we collect it, who we are and our lineage specifically in the stepped core concept. I told you where to find comparisons to the Wagner/Rev9, forge done by an INDEPENDANT tester. It's great that you are happy with your purchase BUT...
An Intercooler that has better ait control, better recovery, better pressure drop, better build quality(welds and assembly) a better finish custom media blast with polished logo vs paint that will chip in the elements(proven fact on the Wagner) a one piece stacked core with rounded header bars is a SUPERIOR product! Again our Intercooler has already been tested against the Wagner/Rev9 by a respected member of this forum so the comparison has already been done, he sold the Forge, he sold the Wagner and uses ours... Here's a quote from his review:
"The ATM fmic really is the best fmic out there if you ask me. It's competitive priced, has very good cooling and minimal pressure drop.
I run meth from time to time and its amazing that I just dont see IAT rise (or only minimal) with this FMIC. " -Darkhold

The reality of the situation is if we hadn't developed the Stepped Core Concept back in 2006 on the E series 335i your intercooler wouldn't exist and this conversation wouldn't be happening...

[mike@x-ph.com]

We do not sell ATM intercoolers and are big fans of the Evolution Racewerks FMIC, i personally think ER is the best. That being said ATM intercooler is a better choice than the Rev9 for the reasons mentioned above ( better iat , better recovery, better finish).

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

We do not sell ATM intercoolers and are big fans of the Evolution Racewerks FMIC, i personally think ER is the best. That being said ATM intercooler is a better choice than the Rev9 for the reasons mentioned above ( better iat , better recovery, better finish).

We are obviously partial but you really need to see ours in person it's automotive jewelry and works as good as it looks...most of our interaction reminds me of my favorite line from the original Red Dawn(yeah I'm old):
"Two toughest kids on the block, I guess. Sooner or later, they're gonna fight!"

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management

We are obviously partial but you really need to see ours in person...most of our interaction reminds me of my favorite line from the original Red Dawn(yeah I'm old):
"Two toughest kids on the block, I guess. Sooner or later, they're gonna fight!"

LOL no need to fight as i agree 100% that the ATM is a quality product and im sure you feel the same about Evolution Racewerks. My comment was not to compare ER to ATM, but after seeing the Rev9 intercooler finish + logs im confident that it is not on the same level.

[TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

LOL no need to fight as i agree 100% that the ATM is a quality product and im sure you feel the same about Evolution Racewerks. My comment was not to compare ER to ATM, but after seeing the Rev9 intercooler finish + logs im confident that it is not on the same level.

Fight in the quote above is code for "directly compared to each other" LOL and yeah as far as competititive products in the BMW realm go ER does nice stuff. You have seen how many companies selling intercoolers have come and gone since 2006 it's an extensive list and some pretty BIG names... It's nice to see and be involved on a forum of enthusiasts smart enough to look past a name and judge a product on its merits and hard data...

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by TurboBullett@Ambient Thermal Management

Fight in the quote above is code for "directly compared to each other" LOL and yeah as far as competititive products in the BMW realm go ER does nice stuff. You have seen how many companies selling intercoolers have come and gone since 2006 it's an extensive list and some pretty BIG names... It's nice to see and be involved on a forum of enthusiasts smart enough to look past a name and judge a product on its merits and hard data...

I know what meant haha
Good luck with the BMW platform

[Fast400]

Wow...I must have paid $400 for trash, that happens to lower iat, has only minimal pressure loss, and yielded some horsepower.
Again, just because your products are good doesn't make other products terrible. All factors must be considered...iat, pressure loss, flow, and price. Not everyone is willing to spend $800 for an intercooler

[Earthmaster]

How much shipped to ontario Canada?

[PeterPure]

Originally Posted by Fast400

Those were partial logs at variety of temps.

http://www.enginebasics.com/Advanced...20Test%20.html" rel="ugc" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://www.enginebas...st%20.html</a>

I replied to your post about that. I have 2 sets of graphs. 1 to compare IAT at same ambient stock vs atm. And 2nd set comparing pressure drop of both. In that 2nd set ambient is indeed higher in the stock fmic log. This is an advantage for stock fmic. So even more impressive for atm fmic to show low pressure drop at a lot lower ambient.

In the meantime i have replaced my stage1 turbo with a stage2 turbo. Running 22 psi till redline. I can only say the ATM is working very well for me. The rev9 may be cheaper but it also performs worse than ATM on IAT reduction.

[PeterPure]

The difference becomes even bigger when running meth. IAT barely go over ambient in 40-140mph runs. Even if you do a few after eachother.

Now that temps are up in Europe I will do a few more logs and post them up to show the good working of the unit

[Jera_Jakerz]

Originally Posted by Fast400

Wow...I must have paid $400 for trash, that happens to lower iat, has only minimal pressure loss, and yielded some horsepower.
Again, just because your products are good doesn't make other products terrible. All factors must be considered...iat, pressure loss, flow, and price. Not everyone is willing to spend $800 for an intercooler

400, I do not think anyone has gone as far to troll the Rev9 and call it trash, but you said it perfectly, "Not everyone is willing to spend $800 for an intercooler." Most of us paid too much for our cars as it is just because it is a BMW. However, we also feel like we get what we paid for. I was and as were others were impressed with the data presented by Darkhold and most of us also didn't have to pay the sticker price since we jumped on the group buy.

Also are you saying your FMIC created horsepower? Did you intend to say you are not losing horsepower on the second or third or ect run?

[rustyminded]

Originally Posted by Jera_Jakerz

400, I do not think anyone has gone as far to troll the Rev9 and call it trash, but you said it perfectly, "Not everyone is willing to spend $800 for an intercooler." Most of us paid too much for our cars as it is just because it is a BMW. However, we also feel like we get what we paid for. I was and as were others were impressed with the data presented by Darkhold and most of us also didn't have to pay the sticker price since we jumped on the group buy.

Also are you saying your FMIC created horsepower? Did you intend to say you are not losing horsepower on the second or third or ect run?

yup I'd pay &800 for fmic, two cp and tbs not on fmic alone

[Fast400]

Also are you saying your FMIC created horsepower? Did you intend to say you are not losing horsepower on the second or third or ect run?

No. What I am saying is that with my tune the max hp rating stock was 374hp. Once the Rev9 was installed, the max was 391hp. Given nothing else was changed, I must assume the increased flow of the rev9 allowed the tune to 'bring it on'.

All I've been trying to say is that the Rev9 is not as bad as it's being made out to be. I understand vendors have an interest in representing their product, I'd do the same in their shoes. I'm sure folks that are convinced by product x or y will still buy x or y.

The last thing I want to do is offend anyone here. I'm sure whether product x or y, they're top shelf in quality and performance.

[Earthmaster]

As long as you get what you pay for there should not be any arguing. The rev9 presents a good value proposition all I need to know.

[Jera_Jakerz]

Originally Posted by Fast400

No. What I am saying is that with my tune the max hp rating stock was 374hp. Once the Rev9 was installed, the max was 391hp. Given nothing else was changed, I must assume the increased flow of the rev9 allowed the tune to 'bring it on'.

All I've been trying to say is that the Rev9 is not as bad as it's being made out to be. I understand vendors have an interest in representing their product, I'd do the same in their shoes. I'm sure folks that are convinced by product x or y will still buy x or y.

The last thing I want to do is offend anyone here. I'm sure whether product x or y, they're top shelf in quality and performance.

Well said, I think we can all agree it's hard not to beat the stock intercooler 😆