[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by 300hp

I am not arguing with this, not at all. I simply put forward what the manufacturer said.

What we all want to see is the 2 racing on the track and let's tally the result, nothing wrong with that. Take out the period from your quote of my statement, it's misleading.

The manufacturers have a lot of information that is a bit off. Like the crank hp ratings, the fact that they accidentally list SPORTS suspension on Xdrive cars on many of their sites.

The period was left in as my Ipad is a tool like that with how it deletes, I will clean up the reply now that I am on a PC lol.

Even the two cars racing on a track opens up the door to a lot of variables. It would be best if they were both driven back to back by the same person.

[BMWinGE]

So if AWD is truly faster than the RWD models, a 328i X drive might be able to beat a 335i. lol

Seriously though, I do need to check AWD out as an option for my next car. However, I wonder if AWD really does improve all around performance, why is the Xdrive model never used for comparison tests, especially against Audi products?

[ZigmundUK]

Nice. Another winter tyre thread. :sigh

btw in all seriousness - whatever drive you choose - winter tyres are NOT just for snow. I've found winters to be much better on cold and cold wet roads (that we get for at least 6 months of the year here) than summers.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

The manufacturers have a lot of information that is a bit off. Like the crank hp ratings, the fact that they accidentally list SPORTS suspension on Xdrive cars on many of their sites.

The period was left in as my Ipad is a tool like that with how it deletes, I will clean up the reply now that I am on a PC lol.

Even the two cars racing on a track opens up the door to a lot of variables. It would be best if they were both driven back to back by the same person.

The problem James is you took an observed variable, BMW 0-60 claim, and tried to dispute it with your chosen facts, weight/dyno. I will choose the observation

I agree 100%, we need same day and same driver preferably Randy Pobst so we can all go to sleep easy as this argument will never end. Lol.

For now though 4.8 beats 5.1 all day long

[300hp]

Originally Posted by 328inGE

So if AWD is truly faster than the RWD models, a 328i X drive might be able to beat a 335i. lol

Seriously though, I do need to check AWD out as an option for my next car. However, I wonder if AWD really does improve all around performance, why is the Xdrive model never used for comparison tests, especially against Audi products?

328i x drive is slower than 328i rwd

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by 300hp

The problem James is you took an observed variable, BMW 0-60 claim, and tried to dispute it with your chosen facts, weight/dyno. I will choose the observation

I agree 100%, we need same day and same driver so we can all go to sleep easy as this argument will never end. Lol.

For now though 4.8 beats 5.1 all day long

What I am trying to say is 0-60 is the smallest variable in which to judge speed.

Even if I grant you that BMW is not retarded and the 0-60 is correct for both cars.

The two facts I tried to have you understand apply to cars that will highlight the physics that take over after an initial launch.

Traps speeds indicate the power, the speed the car travels and same cars AWD vs RWD, the RWD car is ALWAYS traveling faster due to the two rules I told you about. Regardless of a QUICKER 0-60 time. That is why I said QUICKER and FASTER are not the same.

[ckimmel]

The original poster did not indicate that track performance was one of his criteria for selection. He seems to be more interested in functionality and maybe aesthetics if you re-read the post.

There are more capable cars for the same or less money if you want a track car. I won't say that it isn't fun to drive our commuters fast though.

I thought of one other practical application for xdrive car. Tell me if I am wrong. Doesn't the xdrive suspension allow more travel, so that when you hit a pothole, it is less likely to damage your tires/wheels? That IS important in areas that get lots of snow and temperature fluctuations. Our roads look like Swiss cheese right now and probably will until May.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by ckimmel

Tell me if I am wrong. Doesn't the xdrive suspension allow more travel, so that when you hit a pothole, it is less likely to damage your tires/wheels? That IS important in areas that get lots of snow and temperature fluctuations. Our roads look like Swiss cheese right now and probably will until May.

I can attest to this. I have the 19' summer tires, I have 2,700 miles on my car and my front passenger tire has been changed twice now due to potholes. Thankfully I have tire insurance, so the answer is no, AWD will not help you here.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

What I am trying to say is 0-60 is the smallest variable in which to judge speed.

Even if I grant you that BMW is not retarded and the 0-60 is correct for both cars.

The two facts I tried to have you understand apply to cars that will highlight the physics that take over after an initial launch.

Traps speeds indicate the power, the speed the car travels and same cars AWD vs RWD, the RWD car is ALWAYS traveling faster due to the two rules I told you about. Regardless of a QUICKER 0-60 time. That is why I said QUICKER and FASTER are not the same.

James, a video was posted here showing same set up other than awd and rwd, the awd won. Your theory above (the one about track times not 0-60 times) has already been proven to not hold true in some circumstances.

I agree with the quicker faster statements but thats not what we are debating here, straight line performance is not debatable, at least from a stand still. The information void here is on the track, what will be the result.

You are not going to convince anyone that BMW is wrong and you are right iro 0-60 times.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by 300hp

James, a video was posted here showing same set up other than awd and rwd, the awd won. Your theory above has already been proven to not hold true in some circumstances.

You are not going to convince anyone that BMW is wrong with their 0-60 times and you are right.

Are you joking? My theory was proven wrong by THAT?

You wanted to hold dear to the numbers you posted, 0-60 which is straight line speed. All of my facts are true, and have yet to be proven untrue after years of results from tests of cars and years of attending the drag strip.

You have a completely different car, a 911 which has a more performance based AWD system driven around a track. How does that disprove the straight line performance of BMW RWD vs Xdrive?

I could see an AWD car giving someone more confidence on a track. But as I was stating facts relating to what is the FASTER car to counteract your claims relating to 0-60, I find your Top Gear 911 around a track as not disproving me in anyway.

I will not go through the effort of showing every 1/4 mile trap speed and acceleration tests of cars offered in both RWD and AWD to prove my theory as I think you understand enough already.

[rconti]

I didn't. I want all my cars to be RWD, except for my ski car, which needs AWD so I don't have to chain up when they throw up chain control.

AWD = more weight, more drag, more stuff to break, more expensive failures. If you're not planning on driving in snow, I'd never bother. People have been handling rain (and, yes, snow) with RWD for ages with no problems.

[ZigmundUK]

Who actually goes drag racing here? Does 0.3 or 0.5 seconds difference in 0-60 really matter in real world driving?

awd will hold the road better generally and specially round corners - something that rwd fans don't love too much. It will also do less mpg - I don't believe it's just 2-3 - in my experience it's much more than that. Also there's more up front cost for x drive and more long term maintenance costs.

There's been plenty of 'winter' advice already.

Factor all that in - as well as the subjective feeling of the drive and you have an answer for you personally. What's the point in arguing about drag racing times?

[ckimmel]

Originally Posted by 300hp

I can attest to this. I have the 19' summer tires, I have 2,700 miles on my car and my front passenger tire has been changed twice now due to potholes. Thankfully I have tire insurance, so the answer is no, AWD will not help you here.

You don't think it is LESS likely. I know about your 19s and yes I am jealous of those, but as I have told you before, I know even my 18s were hell to keep unbent or without sidewall damage. Hell, I actually broke an aluminum 17" wheel I was using with my blizzaks. Not my first rodeo with that... but would it be worse in an RWD car by even a small amount?

Incidentally, I have rolled over several good potholes in our 335 xdrive and no problems. They were the kind that you don't see and then you grit your teeth as you go over them. All you need are those ugly and poor handling all seasons and things are fine. Not fine in a handling or aesthetic sense, but in a no tire damage sense.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

Are you joking? My theory was proven wrong by THAT?

You wanted to hold dear to the numbers you posted, 0-60 which is straight line speed. All of my facts are true, and have yet to be proven untrue after years of results from tests of cars and years of attending the drag strip.

You have a completely different car, a 911 which has a more performance based AWD system driven around a track. How does that disprove the straight line performance of BMW RWD vs Xdrive?

I could see an AWD car giving someone more confidence on a track. But as I was stating facts relating to what is the FASTER car to counteract your claims relating to 0-60, I find your Top Gear 911 around a track as not disproving me in anyway.

I will not go through the effort of showing every 1/4 mile trap speed and acceleration tests of cars offered in both RWD and AWD to prove my theory as I think you understand enough already.

James I edited my post, re read it again. Calm down man, it's only cars

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by 300hp

James, a video was posted here showing same set up other than awd and rwd, the awd won. Your theory above (the one about track times not 0-60 times) has already been proven to not hold true in some circumstances.

I agree with the quicker faster statements but thats not what we are debating here, straight line performance is not debatable, at least from a stand still. The information void here is on the track, what will be the result.

You are not going to convince anyone that BMW is wrong and you are right iro 0-60 times.

Editing 10 minutes later after I replied makes me need to re-quote.

Straight line performance is not debatable, but you are debating it. If I give up the argument about the BMW 0-60 times being silly, I am still explaining that as speeds increase the RWD pulls head more and more and crosses the line with a higher trap speed. It's not a hypothesis.

Now, a track with turns. That can be a different story.

But did you ever consider all the race cars out there, all the BMW's, Miatas, 911's, you name it? How many are AWD? Audi used to be in those same races, they would dominate the start, I loved watching it.

If AWD is so great, better than RWD for a track with turns, show me how many production based race cars are AWD.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by 300hp

James I edited my post, re read it again. Calm down man, it's only cars

LOL.

Every time I have a discussion with you, it seems like you have a need to stick to whatever supports your purchase, be it the 335, or now Xdrive. I am ok that the 335 is faster, I can sleep at night if Xdrive is better. But I do not need to grasp at straws and cling to any kind of number or distantly related video.

Each time, I provide solid info and it's calm down, it's only cars.

I am quite calm, and again it's Jamesonon like the whiskey.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by ckimmel

You don't think it is LESS likely. I know about your 19s and yes I am jealous of those, but as I have told you before, I know even my 18s were hell to keep unbent or without sidewall damage. Hell, I actually broke an aluminum 17" wheel I was using with my blizzaks. Not my first rodeo with that... but would it be worse in an RWD car by even a small amount?

Incidentally, I have rolled over several good potholes in our 335 xdrive and no problems. They were the kind that you don't see and then you grit your teeth as you go over them. All you need are those ugly and poor handling all seasons and things are fine. Not fine in a handling or aesthetic sense, but in a no tire damage sense.

Well I provided you an observation which disproves your theory. X drive is not helping me at all.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by ZigmundUK

Who actually goes drag racing here? Does 0.3 or 0.5 seconds difference in 0-60 really matter in real world driving?

awd will hold the road better generally and specially round corners - something that rwd fans don't love too much. It will also do less mpg - I don't believe it's just 2-3 - in my experience it's much more than that. Also there's more up front cost for x drive and more long term maintenance costs.

There's been plenty of 'winter' advice already.

Factor all that in - as well as the subjective feeling of the drive and you have an answer for you personally. What's the point in arguing about drag racing times?

I grew up drag racing, it's fun. But it gets boring.

The funny thing is, those who cling to 0-60, well most will never launch the car like the magazine sources they herald so much.

Oh, now it's the track with twists and turns? How many actually go to a driving school,car control clinic, auto-X?

That is why I love getting told by these people what is better and what is not.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by 300hp

Well I provided you an observation which disproves your theory. X drive is not helping me at all.

That does not disprove his theory.

You may have bent MORE 19" wheels/blown tires on RWD.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

LOL.

Every time I have a discussion with you, it seems like you have a need to stick to whatever supports your purchase, be it the 335, or now Xdrive. I am ok that the 335 is faster, I can sleep at night if Xdrive is better. But I do not need to grasp at straws and cling to any kind of number or distantly related video.

Each time, I provide solid info and it's calm down, it's only cars.

I am quite calm, and again it's Jamesonon like the whiskey.

Nope, I just enjoy our disagreements lol. I am way past being emotionally tied to the car although I love mine just as much as you love yours

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by 300hp

Nope, I just enjoy our disagreements lol. I am way past being emotionally tied to the car although I love mine just as much as you love yours

That I know, nothing wrong with that

[300hp]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

I grew up drag racing, it's fun. But it gets boring.

The funny thing is, those who cling to 0-60, well most will never launch the car like the magazine sources they herald so much.

Oh, now it's the track with twists and turns? How many actually go to a driving school,car control clinic, auto-X?

That is why I love getting told by these people what is better and what is not.

Wait a minute, you are the one who said rwd is better, I said let's have the two race and tally the result. I quoted 0-60 from BMW not magazines. The 0-60 is to disprove the oft quoted theory that x drive is just added weight. Lets not misquote statements.