[j1980mac]

Originally Posted by GT500R

Well if 359 is crank then the tune only gave 4 hp over stock?! I think something is amiss...

Originally Posted by GT500R

Well if 359 is crank then the tune only gave 4 hp over stock?! I think something is amiss...

Oh I see what you're saying. But HP isn't the only goal. For me, the instant TQ hit is awesome.

[GT500R]

Originally Posted by j1980mac

Oh I see what you're saying. But HP isn't the only goal. For me, the instant TQ hit is awesome.

True, but with added timing and boost the HP should def go up. Let us m ow what you find!

[j1980mac]

Originally Posted by GT500R

True, but with added timing and boost the HP should def go up. Let us m ow what you find!

If more fuel is added, a bit more HP can be achieved on the top according to Alex.

[Jayf30]

Originally Posted by j1980mac

Yes, same dyno, 4th gear. I need to get the previous wheel runs. Apparently I'm finding out that 359 HP and 431 TQ were actually crank numbers as well. Yes that run was on Stage 2 with the DP.

Wow this must explain why when I had sport displays up I didn't see the hp go above 360... but if I recall correctly I think torque was around the stock numbers as well and that doesn't make sense. Though I definitely feel like there was some cap on the display and it wanted to go well above those numbers.

[nikman011]

MP Stage 3 - Mustang Dyno
371/403
Side note: HP/Tq gauges read roughly 460/460

[GT500R]

Originally Posted by nikman011

MP Stage 3 - Mustang Dyno
371/403
Side note: HP/Tq gauges read roughly 460/460

Fuel/Mods/Gear dyno’d in?

[nikman011]

Originally Posted by GT500R

Fuel/Mods/Gear dyno'd in?

93 oct, mods in sig, 4th
GT500R

Think I am going to FLaSH back to stock, and get a Dyno in, then I will have numbers for stock (with bolt ons), MP Stage 2 with trans flash, and HC Performance Stage 2

AND I think I am going to pick up a used JB4 so I can start logging

[GT500R]

Originally Posted by nikman011

93 oct, mods in sig

Thanks, what gear was the dyno run in?

[GT500R]

Originally Posted by nikman011

93 oct, mods in sig, 4th
GT500R

Think I am going to FLaSH back to stock, and get a Dyno in, then I will have numbers for stock (with bolt ons), MP Stage 2 with trans flash, and HC Performance Stage 2

AND I think I am going to pick up a used JB4 so I can start logging

Nice, you should hit the track in Spring. If you have same mods and a lighter car then what I have you should be 11.7-8 easy.

[StockLOL]

Originally Posted by nikman011

MP Stage 3 - Mustang Dyno
371/403
Side note: HP/Tq gauges read roughly 460/460

On a Dynojet you’re at about 420whp/460wtq that’s up there with the M3/4! Can’t wait to tune mine and see what RWD puts down

[nikman011]

Everything I have read says figure 7-15% difference between Mustang and DynoJet, which mean roughly at least 400 at the wheels. The real tell will be when I flash back to stock to get the delta, BUT all in all, the MissionPerformance product is awesome, and even though from time to time customer service isn't always the best when I have a quick question or two, when you are actually flashing Alex was available on the phone the whole time, walking me through the process as needed, and very patient with me.
On a side note, I only expect so much info about how these results are achieved, that process is Alex's intellectual property, and if he shares it, other tuners will take advantage of it And make money off of his hard work, so I have no problems with that at all, he has a right to do that, to ensure that he profits from his work, and he deserves it.


I have had the Dinan elite version 1, the HC Performance Stage 2, and now all products offered by MP, ....... I feel like this MP flash is the way to go until there is some more hardware to switch out on my m240, and even then, will see what Alex can squeeze out of that for me

[nikman011]

Originally Posted by GT500R

Nice, you should hit the track in Spring. If you have same mods and a lighter car then what I have you should be 11.7-8 easy.

Gonna save the real modding for my '03 Mach 1!

[GT500R]

Originally Posted by nikman011

I have had the Dinan elite version 1, the HC Performance Stage 2, and now all products offered by MP, ....... I feel like this MP flash is the way to go until there is some more hardware to switch out on my m240, and even then, will see what Alex can squeeze out of that for me

Very interesting. Not sure who HC is, but I know Dinan and a couple JB4 guys are asking a out tunes now on the X3 section. Seems that MP has the market until another competitor comes out.

[nikman011]

Originally Posted by GT500R

Very interesting. Not sure who HC is, but I know Dinan and a couple JB4 guys are asking a out tunes now on the X3 section. Seems that MP has the market until another competitor comes out.

HC Performance is just another flash tune for the B58

[335i/335d?]

HCP posted a video on Facebook of a stage 2 140i vs m4 competition, pretty impressive run for the 140i!

[MissionPerformance]

The problem with comparing dyno numbers is that EVERY single dyno reads differently. A 2014 M6 tuned by us for Autohaus Frankfurt did only 615whp on a MD AWD dyno. When the customer took that same car to EAS Dynojet, the car did 730whp. Then he took same car to a different shop and it put down 705whp on that dyno, which is also a Dynojet. So as you see, its very hard to compare the dyno numbers.
IN our experience, a bit older WinPep7 Dynojet actually shows pretty accurate numbers. The RWD 340i we dyned in fully stock form put down 294whp on dynojet. With 10-12% drivetrain loss, that puts the car right at correctly advertised 320bhp.

Now for the most accurate/proper way to determine gains/actual power of the motor is a correctly setup datalog. Remember, the engine is just a airpump and we can calculate torque/hp using onboard sensors, that is as long as sensors are working within range.

For those a bit tech-savvy, here is a datalog of the Stock NON MPPSK B58. If you plot RPM vs Torque VS MAF (KG/H), you can get all the info you ever need. The torque number, is indeed a internal torque model calculated as a function of load, NEVER Boost as boost pressure means nothing on MDG1.

STOCK: At 450Nm of torque on datalog, we can easily figure out the FT-LB number of 330. Now, you can use that same torque number and convert it to bhp. The formula is: BHP = (ft-lb x rpm) / 5252. So taking that formula into account,
you get peak BHP of around 321BHP at 6100rpm.
No for redundancy testing, we can also calculate bhp based on fuel/air consumed. At 6100rpm, that same engine consumes 870kg/h of oxygen, which is 32.0038lb/min. To get HP form oxygen consumed, you multiply that air flow rate by 10 and get the BHP. So in this case 32lb/min x 10 = 320BHP.

MPPSK: At 500nm of torque logged, we know that the engine is making 368ft-lb, just like advertised. Use that HP/Trq formula and plug in data from the log, you get BHP = (6000rpm x 313ftlb) / 5252. BHP = 357BHP. Exactly where it is supposed to be according to factory. Also we can convert the airflow at that rpm (970kg/h) to lb/min and we get 356BHP.

Stage2 Flash: 600Nm logged torque translates to 442ft-lb. At 6300RPM, we are making 515nm/380ftlb, so BHP at that rpm is: 455BHP. Take the MAF reading and you convert the 1250kg/h and convert it to lb/min, which is 45.9lb/min. That translates to 460BHP.


All these logs were taken under normal driving conditions on an actual road surface and these numbers are exactly what the engine is doing on daily basis as you drive it. Dyno numbers will ALWAYS vary, based on operator, conditions, error codes triggered during the run and so much more factors.


Stock Data Log: https://datazap.me/u/missiontuning/b...?log=0&data=12
Stock MPPSK Log: https://datazap.me/u/missiontuning/2...g=0&data=5-6-7
Stage2 Log: https://datazap.me/u/missiontuning/b...?log=0&data=10


Now that we have a stage 2 Log pulled up, look at rail pressure. We are are diving to sub 13mPa of pressure during the pull. Because of that, we have to limit the top end torque as losing fuel pressure at 6K rpm can turn very ugly really quick. Because the Non-Gxx chassis uses a different LPFP, that also becomes a big limiter. We start running out of fuel not only because of the HPFP, but also because LPFP cant supply enough fuel! At 5500rpm/570nm, we are already at 100% LPFP performance. So next step for the Fxx B58 platform is to get more fueling to the HPFP. And that is something we are actually working on now.

Now look at the KG/H reading of that pull. We are pushing the 1270kg/h mark. There is nothing special about that number, aside form the fact that we are on the B58 platform and BMW decided to use a very very narrow reading MAF sensor.

Here is a B58 calibration map for the MAF sensor pulled directly from BMW firmware:


You can see that BMW only used a MAF that is capable of reading up to 1280kg/h. So what does that mean? Well it means that we can only monitor enough air to produce 470BHP. Anything over that number, and we start having Un-Metered air mass coming in and that is a big no-no...unless all the customer wants is a dyno bragging rights and nothing else. You dont have to understand cars or physics to understand one thing: Its not safe/not smart to use more oxygen then the MAIN sensor can read. That sensor is there for a reason guys, and that is to put a lot of fail safes in place.

What happens when we go past that limit? The car resorts to a MODELED air flow target, that is pulled from a map and is not accounted for fuel, altitude and 100 more variables. Yes the car will run, and it will make power past that point, but many of the safety backup functions get disabled. Unless you are building a Track Only car that uses race gas and has a custom tune written for each type of conditions, you want to stay below those limiting points.

[nikman011]

Originally Posted by MissionPerformance

Now that we have a stage 2 Log pulled up, look at rail pressure. We are are diving to sub 13mPa of pressure during the pull. Because of that, we have to limit the top end torque as losing fuel pressure at 6K rpm can turn very ugly really quick. Because the Non-Gxx chassis uses a different LPFP, that also becomes a big limiter. We start running out of fuel not only because of the HPFP, but also because LPFP cant supply enough fuel! At 5500rpm/570nm, we are already at 100% LPFP performance. So next step for the Fxx B58 platform is to get more fueling to the HPFP. And that is something we are actually working on now.

Sooooo, there is a Stage 4 down the line?

[B58togo]

Still hoping the LPFP/HPFP from the revised B58 can be used in our cars and provide more fuel.

https://www.bmwblog.com/2018/10/31/b...88-horsepower/

[MissionPerformance]

Originally Posted by B58togo

Still hoping the LPFP/HPFP from the revised B58 can be used in our cars and provide more fuel.

https://www.bmwblog.com/2018/10/31/b...88-horsepower/

HPFP no, but LPFP yes. Im looking for a LPFP form any Gxx vehicle at this point ot start development of the software. The LPFP on Fxx runs at 6k RPM max while the one in Gxx runs at 8900rpm.

After I get a Gxx LPFP, I will modify it to fit the Fxx chassis and write a program to run it instead of the factory one. That should give us a bit more fuel pressure stability.

[dereksM3]

Originally Posted by MissionPerformance

HPFP no, but LPFP yes. Im looking for a LPFP form any Gxx vehicle at this point ot start development of the software. The LPFP on Fxx runs at 6k RPM max while the one in Gxx runs at 8900rpm.

After I get a Gxx LPFP, I will modify it to fit the Fxx chassis and write a program to run it instead of the factory one. That should give us a bit more fuel pressure stability.

So is this to say the current G01 X3M40i has a higher ceiling in regards to fuel pressure and top end? It seems both the recent dyno's posted they clearly die off after 6k RPM. Reading your post that seems to be done on purposes whereas with a G01 this doesn't have to be the case or is it constrained by the MAF as well?

It's not out yet but I suspect the upcoming B58 TU1 I suspect will have a much higher tuning ceiling since it mentions a revamped fueling system?

[Jayf30]

Just patiently waiting for my license to be restored on the updated software

[grassy_91]

Does anyone in the LA area have the stage 2 flash tune on their car? If so, I’d be very grateful if you could take me for a ride in your car to feel what it’s like compared to my JB4 with meth injection. I’m really considering having this flash done along with the trans flash. Thanks in advance!