06-21-2018, 05:34 PM | #67 |
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My only point is you can drop in 2 or 4 ohm units, depending on your upgraded amp, of course.
Really, I would wait to see if Bill says something.... Murf |
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06-21-2018, 05:47 PM | #68 | ||
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06-21-2018, 06:38 PM | #69 | |
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I was just wondering whether I could follow Technic's advice and swap the stock ones with these, because I was under the impression that the stock subs are 2 ohm. And if they would in fact sound better, as he thinks. Since there's no harness currently out there that allows you to add an amp to power the underseat subs, LIKE THIS they would still be running off the OEM HK amp. PS If simply swapping speakers and using the same amp isn't going to yield much more bass, then is their claim of doubling bass just fluff? https://www.bavsound.com/Product/bsd...rade-pair-2ohm |
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06-21-2018, 09:48 PM | #70 | ||
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06-22-2018, 01:12 AM | #71 | |
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So would this plan work? When I get the car, I pull out the subs, and see what's the sticker on them say for impedence? I've seen pictures posted of subs, like this one, so it should say on it? Bottom line, if they are in fact 2 ohm subs, then it's not a good idea to swap in my 4 ohm subs, right? *** And I'm surprised to hear that about the Bavsound speakers... What you say makes sense. I guess they're trying to say that their speakers are somehow more efficient, so with the same power, can put out a lot more bass. And that's just not technically possible you figure? I can see stretching things a bit, but $600 is really expensive if you're not really get much for it. They offer a 100 day in car trial though, which I'd be surprised they do, if they aren't really confident in their product? |
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06-22-2018, 05:50 AM | #72 | |
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06-22-2018, 06:06 AM | #73 |
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In my three BMW's, all of which have been worked on by MusicarNW, the only Bass solution I ended up being happy with was Jehnert woofers under the seats and a trunk sub for real bass. I had Earthquakes in my e90 and, while they did play lower, they created a mid-bass hole at the hand-off to the mid-range speakers. Trunk sub to Jehnerts to upgraded mid's and tweets, tuned by MusicarNW. It was not cheap, but it has been the best car audio solution I have ever experienced.
Note: the Mid Bass "hole" was clearly in the range of male vocalists with deeper voices. Example: Dave Gahan of Depeche Mode didn't really sound like himself. I was warned about this when we did the Earthquakes but didn't take it that seriously. I wasn't entirely awful, but it wasn't good. |
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06-22-2018, 07:16 AM | #74 | ||||
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06-22-2018, 08:13 AM | #75 |
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I'm not sure if all H/K systems have the same under seat speakers but mine are around 7 ohm, not the mentioned 2 ohm. When I replaced them with Bavsound's they sold me their 8 ohm version.
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06-22-2018, 12:53 PM | #76 | |
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So if they're 4 ohms, I'm golden. If they're 2 ohm, then I'll have to sell my current set, and buy 2 ohm speakers to swap in. Whether then I get an improved bass response, and by how much to be worth it, is another question. Right? |
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06-22-2018, 01:15 PM | #77 |
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Assuming the H-K woofers have similar specs to the hi-fi woofers you'd get better bass response with the SWS, but only if driven with enough power. Ideally you'd have separate amp volume controls for the woofers versus the mids and tweeters, but you don't. You can get around that to some extent with the H-K EQ, since what EQ does is to vary the amp output at each EQ frequency. But EQ can only do so much, because it eats up power. Even a 3dB EQ boost doubles the power the amp must provide, while a 6dB boost quadruples it. That's one more reason why if you want to get real piss-off the neighborhood bass it takes a trunk mounted sub with its own dedicated high power amp.
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06-22-2018, 04:37 PM | #78 | |
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I found specs on 2 replacement "subwoofers"! Audiotec Fischer Match MW 8BMW-D:. 200 / 400 Watts Frequency response 25 - 140 Hz Impedance (Z) 2 Ohms DC resistance (Re) 3.4 Ohms Voice coil diameter (Ø) 42.5 mm Voice coil winding height 12.5 mm Max. linear excursion (Xmax) +/- 4.0 mm Cone area (Sd) 214 cm² Moving mass (Mms) 44.2 g Mechanical resistance (Rms) 0.74 kg/s Resonance frequency (Fs) 46 Hz Mechanical Q factor (Qms) 4.45 Electrical Q factor (Qes) 0.59 Total Q factor (Qts) 0.52 Compliance (Cms) 272 μm/N Equivalent air volume (Vas) 17.3 L Force factor (B*l) 8.6 Tm Voice coil inductance (Le) 1.1 mH Efficiency 1W / 1m (SPL) 90 dB Compatibility: Suitable for all BMW model ranges with under-seat subwoofers Doesn't play too high, but.... Earthquake: Model: SWS-8X EAN: 0-168975-910189 Size: 8" high performance sub Fs: 20-300Hz Max Power: 300W RMS Power: 150W Impedance: 4Ω Sensitivity: 86.7dB Qes: 1.372 Qms: 3.158 Qts: 0.957 Rvc= 3.400 Ohm Sd=22.000m M² Md= 50.000g BL=5.837 T-M No= 0.086% SPLo= 81.4 dB Vas= 716.361m Ft3 Cms= 295.150u M/N Krm= 4.722m Ohm Erm= 0.687 Mms= 55.805g Mmd= 53.929m Kg Kxm= 204.955m H Exm= 0.257 Murf Last edited by Littlebear; 06-24-2018 at 09:25 AM.. |
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06-22-2018, 05:29 PM | #79 |
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I was referring to the BMW amp.
The Audiotech woofer has similar response to the stock BMW hi-fi woofer, but it's a bit less sensitive, so it won't go as loud with the same amp volume. It's not 2 ohm, it's 4 ohm. You can tell that by the Re, which is 3.4 ohms. Re is always lower than Z, never higher. The 200 watt rating is moot, the short 4mm xmax limits it to only 50 watts input at 50Hz before the cone runs out of travel. All things considered the BMW driver is better. Neither the Audiotec nor BMW go all that high, they're not supposed to. The mids take over around 120Hz. |
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06-22-2018, 07:15 PM | #80 |
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Thanks Bill,
I can't find any specs on any other woofs. I thought these Audiotechs spec'd close to the Earthquake. I'm surprised the little mids cross as low as ~ 120hz. Some of these 8" woofs go up to 200hz. Does that help with integration to the mids? So we still be lookin'.... Murf |
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06-22-2018, 09:26 PM | #81 |
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You don't want them to go much higher than 120Hz, because then the wavelengths get short enough to be directionally locatable. The reason why sub placement under the seats works is that you can't detect where their output is coming from, maintaining the imaging that makes the door speakers seem to be the only sound sources.
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06-22-2018, 10:18 PM | #82 | |
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I just installed the earthquake 2 ohms set today with the stock hifi amp and they sound superb. I can't imagine them sounding better than they do. |
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06-23-2018, 05:57 AM | #83 | |
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In my case, the language of this discussion is a little off. I really don't like big subwoofers. Even my living room 3-ways, tuned at the Brooklyn Navy Yard, top out at 10". The best integrated 8" underseat drivers, making a nice 3-way, is wot I want! Murf Last edited by Littlebear; 06-23-2018 at 06:15 AM.. |
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06-23-2018, 08:51 AM | #84 |
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Until presented with objective data to prove otherwise I'm inclined to believe that the OEM woofers give as good a result as is possible with the OEM amplification. Most of the reason why it's widely assumed that an aftermarket woofer will work better is because they're expensive, but so are the stock woofers.
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06-23-2018, 10:16 AM | #85 |
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I agree with this. There are undeniable advantages to designing speakers, amplification and signal processing as a set.
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06-23-2018, 11:22 AM | #86 |
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06-25-2018, 11:27 AM | #87 | ||
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I take it nothing like that exists right now for the M2 with the HK system? When I asked Technic, he said he doesn't have one, because the HK system is digital. And then someone else says it's NOT digital... Quote:
This one is used to add a trunk sub/amp to the OEM amp. Remote signal included. Please note that this harness is not compatible with Digital/MOST Top HiFi/HK/Logic7 OEM systems. HiFi (676)/HK (674) add-a-sub harness/LOC |
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07-08-2018, 05:27 AM | #88 |
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Great stuff in this thread!
I have the hifi upgrade in my 320d Touring from 2009. I'm interested to learn about how this system is setup: how many channels does the amp have; how are they wired (crossovers, amp channels to feed the speakers, etc). Does anyone have a link to a wiring diagram or something like that? I'm looking for this information in order to decide on the best upgrade path for my audio system. The hifi upgrade is not bad but it lack a bit of bass. Also it has less definition that the Harman Kardon system in my company car. Thanks! |
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