12-23-2019, 03:35 PM | #67 | |
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So no, a bigger turbo with the same fuel supply won't make more power, because more air needs more fuel. If you are fuel limited, then you will not be able to make more power with a bigger turbo. In fact, you will need to run the larger turbo at a lower boost pressure. Please don't go blowing up your engine thinking otherwise. |
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12-23-2019, 05:28 PM | #68 | |
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The HDP 6 should see about 500whp with stock turbo. I'm thinking the Dorch Stage 1 and XDI-35 should be right for about 580whp with a turbo upgrade and Dorch Stage 2 and XDI-60 to about 680whp with something like the Pure800
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Tesla Model 3 Performance 0 - 60mph 3.1s
M140i LCI Mineral Grey Dorch Stage 2 HPFP, CG Precision DS-1, XHP, MHD Stage 2 HPFP E30 @ E42 100 - 200 6.96s Quarter mile 10.93@127mph Last edited by OzBMR; 12-24-2019 at 05:45 AM.. Reason: Added Dorch Stage 1 and 2 pumps |
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12-23-2019, 09:04 PM | #69 | |
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Thanks for explaining the math earlier in the thread. We've been MIA trying to finish more kits and get more data! One thing to note here is the B58 has a 3 x 5.0mm camshaft lobe (the 4.7mm applies to N55). Also, these flow figures are simply based on swept volume to achieve a generalized "apples to apples" comparison between the pumps. This gives everyone a good idea where each pump ends up in terms of horsepower, but it assumes 100% VE. Taking into consideration the VE of each pump, along with different tuning strategies (AFR, torque and SOI manipulation, etc.) and ethanol blends, we sometimes end up with varied results. This is why we have been pushing customers and ourselves for more results. The last thing we want to sell is an empty promise! Stay tuned for more dyno graphs and datalogs after the holidays.
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12-24-2019, 04:49 AM | #70 | |
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lol, same tune, same load targets, same lambda means it injects same fuel amount, where do you see more air? power is better because of lower backpressure and better flow. I can only repeat that bigger turbo with the sane tune (it can be stock tune also) WILL make better power and same tune means engine will get SAME amount of air because load targets are same.
example : N55 ewg. stock turbo can easily max out hpfp. you set it on the hpfp limit ~1.15-1.2 bar at high rpms and get ~410hp max. PS2 same hpfp same boost same load and you get 450-460hp. It’s hard to believe that there are still some people not understanding these basics. Quote:
Last edited by enemigo13; 12-24-2019 at 05:08 AM.. |
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12-24-2019, 06:09 AM | #71 | |
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However, check this: Two compressors both making 16psi. The larger of the two compressors would make the same psi with a denser charge. Denser charge has more oxygen That’s where more fuel is needed for the same A/F ratio Both are valid points IMHO |
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kern4174522.00 |
12-24-2019, 07:11 AM | #72 | |
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Here's VTT's GC log. https://datazap.me/u/vargasturbotech...og=0&data=4-19 Note the STFT. That's the easiest way to see what fueling is actually doing since we don't have an injection timing parameters to monitor. It's relative to the stock injection mapping. The DME can only adjust so much (typically up to +/- 30%) so while it can make more power, it's not safe. It is constantly compensating for varying fuel quality, ignition, etc. and operating near the limit reduces your safety net. Also, hybrid turbos like pure and VTT add bigger compressors with the same size turbine housing. So you can actually increase back pressure. That's why a proper big turbo with appropriate A/R is more efficient. Hybrids are cheaper and flow more air than stock so you'll have more potential hp, but it sacrifices efficiency. |
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12-24-2019, 08:32 AM | #73 | ||
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12-24-2019, 09:17 AM | #74 | |
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STFT is dependant on fuel you use, add more e85 and STFT will go up. people add fueling/meth because hybrid turbos can give much more boost than stock -> stock fueling is not enough in n55/b58 case. required fueling is calculated not by boost (as air can be hot/cold) but by load (%) - it’s calculated value from boost, IAT, maf readings, etc. and yes for the same load will be same fueling no matter what turbo you use. and yes with the bigger turbo and same load engine will produce more power. PS2 has way bigger turbine wheel than stock N55, and it’s one of the factors why it gives 30-40 hp more than stock turbo with exactly the same tune without any extra fueling. but to use its full potential (1.6 bar 550hp) extra fuel will be needed for sure.
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12-25-2019, 06:21 AM | #76 | ||
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A lot of people are making 440whp+ on stock fuel system. So making that much with a bigger turbo isn't a surprise. But you can see in the log that he's hitting the fuel limit as pressures drop. Again, it works and makes power. But not safe when you've eaten into your safety net. It just depends. |
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12-25-2019, 07:55 AM | #77 |
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I apologize this is getting off topic and not trying to be argumentative, just trying to get my facts straight. This is taken from the vtt website:
Key Design Elements: All new castings with factory restrictions removed. No oversized wheels stuffed into factory housings here! Because it's an entirely new casting doesn't that by definition make it not a hybrid turbo? |
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12-25-2019, 12:15 PM | #80 |
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GC+ will have a new turbine housing though. Really its the better option, but the GC price is hard to beat. And at the end of the day, for big numbers I'd prefer a Doc Race style kit.
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12-25-2019, 12:20 PM | #81 |
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Definitely, I'm only looking to make 500-550whp so the vtt has been really tempting. But I think you are right, wait for the gc+
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12-25-2019, 04:40 PM | #82 | |
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Updated Thread Updated the Dorch Engineering HPFP Section, added my personal thoughts on the pump so far, as well as updated the datalogs. Quote:
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12-26-2019, 01:48 PM | #83 |
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Supra Pump DIY
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1680853 |
12-27-2019, 08:07 AM | #84 |
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Thanks, kern417. Just saw it. So question: In the video (and I know I've read this elsewhere), while explaining the increased fuel pressure vs stock, kern says that we have an internal fuel pressure regulator that will keep the increased pressure down to what the car needs. If that's the case, why do we need to have a custom tune?
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12-27-2019, 02:12 PM | #85 | |
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I finally got a datalog today. Running BM3 Stage 1 93 OTS map. https://datazap.me/u/kern4179/stage-1-93-tu-pump |
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12-27-2019, 06:31 PM | #87 | ||
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B58
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