[HiFi]

Originally Posted by Daftasabrush

Found a video of a startup and 0-200KMh run:

sounds exactly the same as the N55...

[HiFi]

Im in Australia, and i can also confirm my car has the 5 bolt front strut mounts.

My car was a pre-LCI May 2015 build.

Happy with the overall handling, the car has nice steering feel, particularly in sport mode.

I cant imagine what they have done to make it go backwards, but maybe it hasnt gone backwards, it could all be in the eye of the beholder/reviewer.

I think VSS is wearing all the blame here, as i dont actually think VSS makes all that much difference to overall steering feel, if any. Ive driven several VSS and Non VSS cars and it only really makes a difference at low speeds or tight turns like hairpins, and its not any worse. I actually think its the Servotronic that the reviewers dont like...

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by HiFi

Im in Australia, and i can also confirm my car has the 5 bolt front strut mounts.

My car was a pre-LCI May 2015 build.

Happy with the overall handling, the car has nice steering feel, particularly in sport mode.

I cant imagine what they have done to make it go backwards, but maybe it hasnt gone backwards, it could all be in the eye of the beholder/reviewer.

I think VSS is wearing all the blame here, as i dont actually think VSS makes all that much difference to overall steering feel, if any. Ive driven several VSS and Non VSS cars and it only really makes a difference at low speeds or tight turns like hairpins, and its not any worse. I actually think its the Servotronic that the reviewers dont like...

+10.

That's what I'm thinking as well.

VSS in my 335i is not noticeably different then non VSS F30's I've driven, except for the tight turns and parking lots that you mention.
But even then it feels so natural that I don't get those who claim it confuses them as the don't know how much lock to put in.
Really? They negotiate steering angle based on their steering wheel angle and not on where the car is actually going and how much it's turning?

With VSS I can make a 90 degree left or right by turning the wheel 180 degrees, meaning I can make that turn without having to unwind the wheel at all. That's pretty cool really, and I don't think about when I do it, just do it. I prefer steering with a tighter ratio.
At 14.5:1 with VSS and 15:1 for standard steering, neither is that extreme.

[Isow]

I hope they've fixed the clunking steering rack !
Time will tell.

[dopper99]

Top Gear review.....

http://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/b...to/first-drive

[SkyJawa]

Originally Posted by dopper99

Top Gear review.....

http://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/b...to/first-drive

Oh dear. Not exactly glowing either......

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by SkyJawa

Oh dear. Not exactly glowing either......

The two American magazine reviews (over in the general F30 forum thread) are a bit more positive.

I do believe the Jaguar XE is influencing the way the UK journalists are appraising the BMW steering. If Jaguar's setup is a new benchmark, BMW will have their work cut out to beat it with the less complex front suspension, even on Michelin PSS shod test cars.

HighlandPete

[teaston]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

The two American magazine reviews (over in the general F30 forum thread) are a bit more positive.

I do believe the Jaguar XE is influencing the way the UK journalists are appraising the BMW steering. If Jaguar's setup is a new benchmark, BMW will have their work cut out to beat it with the less complex front suspension, even on Michelin PSS shod test cars.

HighlandPete

I think the XE's double wishbone front suspension is the key!

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by teaston

I think the XE's double wishbone front suspension is the key!

I suspect that is a big part in the EPS tuning ability. Certainly another tool in the toolbox for dealing with some of the variable frictional forces which seem to plague EPS setups.

HighlandPete

[FSE23]

whatever they say I still want it

[k44ENT]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I suspect that is a big part in the EPS tuning ability. Certainly another tool in the toolbox for dealing with some of the variable frictional forces which seem to plague EPS setups.

HighlandPete

Isn't the 5 series F10 / 11 double wishbone up front? I remember being an early adopter of an F10 and sold it after a few months due to the feel of the EPS. I moved to an XF with hydraulic assistance and it was lovely. I find my current F31 as good as the XF and that's praise indeed. I think the double wishbone XE setup is helping but Jaguar just seem to have a better grip on manipulating the EPS system if we believe the press. I really need to drive an XE to see what all the fuss is about. Another point worth a mentioning my previous F31 had a terrible steering feel so have things improved or are sone cars just better than others. Maybe tolerance stack in the system or geometry setup plays a part as well. I watched a review of the XE S vs a 335i yesterday and the XE steering was praised as was the 335i. The 335i was said as having less body control out of bends but later they revealed it was on m-sport passive vs XE adaptive! Conclusion, the press seem very Jaguar at the moment and BMW seem to be struggling in supplying a car speced correctly.

[335dJa]

I had non vss for just over 1 year, then specced vss on a virtually identical model, which we have run for 7 months now.
The difference did't seem massive, but it's definately more responsive with it.
I haven't tried a non vss since but I suspect it might be more noticable going back. I would be worried to build a car without it now as I'm sure I would regret not having it.

[teaston]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I suspect that is a big part in the EPS tuning ability. Certainly another tool in the toolbox for dealing with some of the variable frictional forces which seem to plague EPS setups.

HighlandPete

But it is no doubt part of the reason that the XE has less cabin space, costs more & weighs considerably more than the 3!

[tjlees]

I'm not the greatest fan of VSS and some of issues identified by the hacks are what I encountered - but fully understand people's need for it.

I'm glad XE is (momentarily) being used as the new benchmark for handling and ride. It means BMW will up their game.

The eps has always been a problem for me, but porsche in shape of the 991 gt3 and turbo have improved it to the point of being as good as before IMHO - so why can't bmw?

Looking forward to the comparison reviews!

[XAlp]

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/content/...t-drive-review

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by k44ENT

Isn't the 5 series F10 / 11 double wishbone up front? I remember being an early adopter of an F10 and sold it after a few months due to the feel of the EPS. I moved to an XF with hydraulic assistance and it was lovely. I find my current F31 as good as the XF and that's praise indeed. I think the double wishbone XE setup is helping but Jaguar just seem to have a better grip on manipulating the EPS system if we believe the press. I really need to drive an XE to see what all the fuss is about. Another point worth a mentioning my previous F31 had a terrible steering feel so have things improved or are sone cars just better than others. Maybe tolerance stack in the system or geometry setup plays a part as well. I watched a review of the XE S vs a 335i yesterday and the XE steering was praised as was the 335i. The 335i was said as having less body control out of bends but later they revealed it was on m-sport passive vs XE adaptive! Conclusion, the press seem very Jaguar at the moment and BMW seem to be struggling in supplying a car speced correctly.

Are you suggesting adaptive would have made the difference?

[k44ENT]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Are you suggesting adaptive would have made the difference?

What I'm saying is that even with a double wish bone set up it doesn't guarantee a perfect ESP setup. I do believe that adaptive helps with body control and steering feel up to a point and probably as far as most of us will push on the average British road or the limits the average journalist will push the car to.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by k44ENT

What I'm saying is that even with a double wish bone set up it doesn't guarantee a perfect ESP setup. I do believe that adaptive helps with body control and steering feel up to a point and probably as far as most of us will push on the average British road or the limits the average journalist will push the car to.

Interesting, I couldn't drive as fast on some roads with adaptive than I could with the passive set up. So I'd say adaptive is inferior.

[NISFAN]

Regarding the steering feel, or lack of, it is something the car community will adjust to.

It is no different when power steering replaced un-assisted.....steering feel was killed. Now it seems that hydraulic power assist is universally accepted as 'the best' for steering feedback, even though that couldn't be further from the truth.

Next step is steer by wire, so no physical connection between hands and wheels. Looking forward to the banter then.

[Tengocity]

In the same way that they've made constant tweaks to other aspects of the car it's not unreasonable to think they may have tweaked the EPS system and the dampers used in both the passive and adaptive systems. Technology changes, and customer feedback comes in quickly these days, so I'd be surprised if most car manufacturers don't make constant changes to components.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

In the same way that they've made constant tweaks to other aspects of the car it's not unreasonable to think they may have tweaked the EPS system and the dampers used in both the passive and adaptive systems. Technology changes, and customer feedback comes in quickly these days, so I'd be surprised if most car manufacturers don't make constant changes to components.

You'd be surprised Terry.

I have worked in the automotive industry for long enough to know the 'brains' are hard at work on the next model. Once a car goes into production, it is 'old' to the development team. There is also a very strong desire to not change any components. New components have to go through a very lengthy and costly validation process, so not 'worth it' if it is just a mild improvement. There is normally an underlying reason for any changes.....so those 5 bolt strut towers would most likely be to address body shell/ damper 'concerns' that have shown up.

[k44ENT]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Interesting, I couldn't drive as fast on some roads with adaptive than I could with the passive set up. So I'd say adaptive is inferior.

Yes interesting, the road I travel every day to work is badly surfaced ( up and down not pot holes) with a few very tight bends and long straights. The new car tackles it better than my passively sprung m-sport ever did in both terms of body control and steering feel. Maybe i'm not pushing hard enough then 😀