03-20-2009, 02:21 PM | #68 |
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wonder that myself.....but if they did...wouldn't you think BMW would reserve the Turbo V8 for the M5?....and take the M3 down to a 6?
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03-20-2009, 02:29 PM | #69 | |
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Anyway, regardless of all that, they could use the displacement to distiguish M3 and M5 if they were to go this route, so it would all work out from a marketing perspective. I don't think this is their plan, but I wish it were. |
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03-20-2009, 02:31 PM | #70 |
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that sucks.....do you people even wonder how long will those engines last for example a 4cl. turbo with some 300hp?....or a 6cl. turbo with 400hp or even more for the next M3?.... I expect a V8 again or a V8 turbo for the next M3 since this one is V8 , also M5M6 V10 not to go V8 at least stay on the same level or improve ur V10....
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03-20-2009, 02:56 PM | #71 |
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keep in mind people said the same thing when the E36 came out with a 6 cyl
everyone said why ruin the engine, as the E30 was known for an amazing engine i owned one and it really was a sweet engine and that was a 4 cyl and many people also didn't like that the current M3 had a big V8 at the front and we all know how good our engine is Bmw are not stupid they won't release a car that tarnishes the M3 name a name its competitors wish they had i am sure the next engine will be just as good as the S14 and the S65 just wait and see i am also looking forward to the 1M if they are trying to follow in the foot steps of the E30 M3 then they just might have a winner |
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03-20-2009, 04:08 PM | #72 | ||
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The rumor says that BMW spent quite some effort to make an S63 out of the N63. Let's wait some more days to learn about the details. Quote:
Best regards, south
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03-20-2009, 04:10 PM | #73 | |||
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Just about Ferrari, they actually do not make production V10s. Don't think they ever have, but I could be wrong. Quote:
Even so, the fact that it doesn't have an inline 6 any more, the very thing that makes BMW's 6 cylinders as unique as they are, will be enough to turn me away, possible class-leading dynamics and performance notwithstanding. A bit extreme? I suppose so, but that's just the way I see it. In all honesty though it probably makes little difference what I think about it. The engine landscape is bound to change drastically sooner rather than later. This is just me bemoaning the quick pace of change more than anything else. But enough of me moaning over what engine might or might not be used in the next M3, I'll just content myself with seeing how it unfolds before I start blasting again |
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03-20-2009, 04:55 PM | #74 | |||
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And the V6 is inherently a terrible design for an engine given it's not balanced.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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03-20-2009, 04:56 PM | #75 |
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Kooper,
If changing to forced induction doesn't completely turn you off as you already said you are a traditionalist then I doubt a change from inline to vee will do it either. Also I reckon if this next M3 drives as well as I believe it should (considering that less weight makes for a livelier car with better directional change etc) then I think it would be a bit premature to dismiss it just because you don't like their possible choice of engine. It's human nature to resist change, even when I may be for the better but I think keeping an open mind is the right move when we are talking about 4 years away. |
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03-20-2009, 05:08 PM | #76 |
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i dunno why everyone is flipping out when the inline 6 was already replaced with a v8. this purist crap seems just like snobbery without actually knowing the difference.
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03-20-2009, 05:33 PM | #77 |
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How about a balls out I-6, I got an M3 b/c I wanted a NA car and I love the fact that its a high revving screamer. I'm all for light weight, but don't take our revs away BMW!
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03-20-2009, 05:57 PM | #78 | |
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I agree that the high-revving and response charecteristics are why I love this car and I'm not anzious to see it change.
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03-20-2009, 07:33 PM | #80 |
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They might just chop two cylinders off of the front of the 4.0 V8 and add turbos. I trust the M powertrain division, whatever they decide.
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03-20-2009, 10:03 PM | #81 |
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BMW PLEASE DONT MAKE A V6 PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!
All the prior m3 engines followed BMWs characteristics. First a strong well balanced four. Then two beautiful i-6s. Then a very unique 4 liter v8. If BMW produces a v6 turbo/tt like some have said and myself included I really do not see myself jumping on that bandwagon. There has to be some wall BMW-M cannot cross. They already took the high revving idea out of our heads and forced us into FI (that's fine). But please BMW PLEASEEEEE do not make a v6 its just like your selling your soul to the economy and the nay Sayers. The n54 is a great engine for what it is i personally love the engine LOVE it. But its not a ///Motorsport engine and its defiantly not a v6 lol. I dont want to sound liek a fanboy or a conformist but I know BMW listens to these boards and can you please listen to this thread. PLEASE!!!!!
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03-20-2009, 10:45 PM | #82 |
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I second that; thank god I got mine while there is still "M3 V8" under the hood! I have owned the 135i twin turbo six; fun car, but it's no high performance 8 cylinder.
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03-21-2009, 12:31 AM | #83 |
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The V6 engine configuration is the bottom of the barrel out of all the current engine layouts. It has horrible balance!!! (and to the people that think it sounds better, Better than what a sewing machine). Most car companys use them because they are cheaper to mass produce and are a lot cheaper for front wheel drive cars. I could never see BMW actual going this route there is just no way!!! If they actual do change there 6 cyclinder configuration I'd take a flat six or a turbo I-5 before a V6. I see no point in this change, the I-6 is a beautiful engine with a great natural dynamic balance so they rev super smooth all the way to red line. It also has some of the best response and you can really use every rpm throughout the rev range. I am one of the biggest Bimmer or Beemer nuts out there (I have driven BMW's since I was 16 and that's all I've really owned since) and I can honestly say I would never buy a V6 BMW!!!!
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03-21-2009, 12:45 AM | #84 | ||
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There is some misconception in this thread that direct injection can "largely" counter turbo lag.
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To conclude in my opinion there are only two routes possible for better efficiency, low emissions and high hp: - Diesel turbocharged DI engine (and maybe also supercharged to even further reduce turbo lag at low rpm) See Audi doing that already. I doubt BMW will do that for the M. http://www.vwvortex.com/cgi-bin/artm...1496&printer=1 OR -Gasoline turbocharged engine with variable Turbine geometry (VTG). Basically the turbine is made to mimic a smaller turbo at lower rpm. At higher speeds the profile is increased. This is what Porsche is doing on the 911 Turbo. Last edited by oneginee; 03-21-2009 at 01:31 AM.. |
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03-21-2009, 02:21 AM | #85 |
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why dont they run the turbo with an electric motor that matches exactly the air volume needed / desired at "any" rpm? Wouldnt the lag go away that way and at the same the desired air flow in the intake would be "perfectly" matched at any rpm?
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03-21-2009, 02:39 AM | #86 | |
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You are right and this would work brilliantly, only thing is that it wouldn't be free boost as is the case with normal turbos, the electricity to drive the turbo unit has to come from somewhere. Though I doubt it would come close to requiring the same amount of power as is required to drive a supercharger. I would imagine that if South is correct and the next M5 will include KERS then the likelihood is BMW will side step the lag issues by also using KERS in the M3. Jaguar are also close to launching a model with this technology so it's definitely on the cards for BMW to do the same. |
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03-21-2009, 04:33 AM | #87 | ||
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Argue with my source I guess. Prof. C. Arcoumanis, "Flow and Combustion in Reciprocating Engines". He claimed 2-3x the rpm for the turbo is feasible with DI. Quote:
Either way you look at it there is plenty of technology and plenty of development time for the next M3. I'd be willing to place a wager that is will have zero to nearly imperceptible turbo lag. |
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