02-03-2020, 02:15 AM | #859 |
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02-03-2020, 03:53 AM | #860 | ||
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Look, I previously loved the concept of an M car not because of the name but what equipment that was attached to it, which gave it a discernible advantage over standard models, you knew the extra money was well spent, now the difference is so minimal, I feel like you're just paying for the name. Back in 2008, when I got into BMW from Minis, they didn't have this many various models, the entry-level price for an M car with NA V8, aluminum components, Adaptive Suspension, electronic LSD, ITB, M iDrive Control, ect. You would have to spend a minimum of $75,000 for the price of admission to a E92 M3. The fact that BMW throws in most of the above for standard M Performance line takes away the pizazz and uniqueness that they once commanded, IMHO. It's like walking into a store and seeing Coke and Pepsi, at the end of the day, most really can't tell the difference, so they go with which one is cheaper or sale because they pretty much all the same. I predict to further separate the official M models from the M Performance variants, for the next generation, would be the manual option; everything else would pretty much be equivalent, as BMW continue to blur the lines between M Cars and M Performance line, in the name of profits, from everyone that wants an equivalently equipped vehicle. The fact is that the M model line-up in general have now reach a plateau in performance and handling, to the point there is no way to go beside electric, so enjoy this last generation of real M cars with combustion engines before they disappear and this dispute is moot. |
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02-04-2020, 12:42 PM | #861 |
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Yeah, no. I’ve driven a G M340i and it is nowhere near my M3. The overall stiffness and responsiveness. The body roll. The power band. Two drastically different cars. Above all, the feeling is different. Steering is disconnected in the 40i and you can’t hear much outside the cabin. Which a lot of people like! And I understand that! But to say the M340i is anywhere near an M3 CS, Competition, or even a base, is insane.
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02-04-2020, 07:14 PM | #862 |
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Nah, it's been like this before. I DD'd a 325e way back in the day. It was an economical pig of a BMW, by design.
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02-04-2020, 08:21 PM | #863 | |
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At Streets of Willow just last month I was getting point-by's from Mustangs, Corvettes and EVO's in the intermediate group. My M3 CS is stock with PS4S's. BTW my first car was an E21 320i and while it was fun to drive, it was slow.
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02-04-2020, 08:36 PM | #864 | |
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There is a price difference, and you GET something for paying more contrary to what people want to believe.
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02-04-2020, 08:42 PM | #865 |
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Judging by its weight, it's not a car I would consider. M badge or not.
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02-04-2020, 08:53 PM | #866 | |
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There’s a lot to be said about how a faster driver in a faster car will net faster results. Just because you’re getting point-bus from inferior drivers in faster cars, doesn’t make your M3 CS a better car. In fact, I can cite anecdotal evidence all day long about how I was passing significantly faster and better cars on track in my MZ4 Coupe, doesn’t change the fact that first session out in a Corvette C7 Grand Sport I was doing laps 7 seconds per lap faster. And no matter how much I LOVE the MZ4 Coupe, it cant compete with 200 more ft-lbs on a 13 year newer chassis with magic double wishbone suspension and 50mm wider semi street legal “slicks.” It ALSO doesn’t change the fact that in 2006-2008 (when my MZ4 Coupe was born) the M3 of the day could hang with the Corvettes of its day and then some...But nothing in the BMW lineup today can go toe to toe with today’s Corvette. Or Camaro ZL1. Or Crapstang GTxxx. And I don’t even have to mention those prancing ponies from Stuttgart.
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02-04-2020, 08:58 PM | #867 |
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So was I. A Model 3 Performance with just suspension mods won Global Time Attack at Buttonwillow. Up against modified WRX STis putting up 500+ hp.
The Model 3 will run circles around most cars on track. That instantaneous torque delivered to 4 wheels on a 4,000ish lbs frame with super low center of gravity makes it an excellent handling car out of the box.
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02-04-2020, 09:12 PM | #868 | |
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That goes without saying, but this is the intermediate group with people with a decent amount of track experience on the same day with the same conditions. Sure, some of them weren't as good as me but as you pointed out, I'm "slightly above AVERAGE" at best. Chances are, the M3 CS actually IS a decent car that can keep up with other "better" cars even in the hands of someone as inept as me. The point is that the fact that capabilities of the M3 CS allowed me to even beat anyone speaks to the qualities of the car: fast, not too heavy, powerful, predictable. These are the things that I would not get in a "run of the mill Toyota". I understand that you were trying to make a point by exaggerating and being dramatic, but you are wrong in this case. Tell me I can beat my PB at Big Willow in a Camry and I'll get rid of my M3 CS. Frankly, this discussion is ridiculous because now you have resorted to insults. You sound like you've been around the block–I expected a much more thoughtful response.
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02-05-2020, 12:21 AM | #869 | |
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Buddy couldn't attend a track day I organized because the nearest charger was too far for his Tesla S. We all know that practice makes perfect and we want to take advantage of our track days to get in as many runs as possible. This is more difficult in an electric car. I see more Tesla 3's at autocrosses for this reason. Believe me when I say I am an advocate for EV's as I've been daily driving one for 3 years. I hope one day the EV becomes just as practical on a circuit as an ICE, however today is not that day yet.
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02-13-2020, 09:20 AM | #870 | |
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The regular M3/4 has a very similar performance envelope to a base C7 Corvette. Look up the best track times in the Track sub forum (there are a few people who have owned or tracked both and gotten similar times). I hang with GT350 and Camaro SS 1LE at VIR. Could better drivers perhaps go a second or two faster in the Mustang or Camaro? Who knows. The differences don’t seem night and day. In 2008 no BMW could hang with a Z06 Corvette.
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02-13-2020, 09:28 AM | #871 |
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On another note, just because a manufacturer puts a badge on it, it still doesn't mean much. lol. Flame suit on....
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02-20-2020, 03:05 AM | #872 | |
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Ill believe it when I see both cars on the scales.
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02-20-2020, 03:20 AM | #873 | |
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Point being, the F8X M3/4 weighed less than its top non-M counterpart, the 340i. There is no reason to believe that trend won't continue with the G8X simply due to the fact that it will have aluminum sheetmetal and carbon fiber roof.
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02-20-2020, 03:44 AM | #874 | |
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Most probably the "PURE" version with RWD and Manuel will be the lightest.
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02-20-2020, 03:46 AM | #875 | ||
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02-20-2020, 05:31 PM | #878 |
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02-20-2020, 05:32 PM | #879 |
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Yes but in those days they were trying to advertise 6.3L when we all know it wasn't true.
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02-21-2020, 03:21 AM | #880 |
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Damn that's a bold statement. What makes you say that?
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