07-08-2018, 01:44 PM | #89 | |
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Last edited by Jalisco; 07-08-2018 at 07:12 PM.. |
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09-09-2018, 06:47 AM | #90 |
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Hi,
I am currently looking for upgrading the whole audio in my 2012 F20, basic (non hifi) setup. I have the 6.5" basic "subs", no amp. I was looking for an aftermarket replacement in 6.5" like Earthquake SWS-6.5X. Now that I read the whole thread, I'm not so sure ! I understand that the BMW drivers are not that bad. So my question : may I buy aftermarket subs, or any used Hifi/HK BMW subs + enclosures ? I plan to add an amp (pp82dsp, Mosconi Gladen D2, Audison AP8.9, Eton Stage 6, not decided yet) + hifi coding. Any advice appeciated ! I already bought Focal 100krs for front speakers, and Focal PC100 for rear speakers. |
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09-09-2018, 06:50 AM | #91 | |
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Most replacements are reasonable but the basic ones are junk. Trust me....replace them if you can afford it!
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Current car: 2017 BMW G30 520d M-Sport, BMW F46 218d Grand Tourer
Previous cars: 1989 BMW E30 316i, 1998 BMW E36 323i Coupe M Sport, 2009 BMW E87 116d, 2013 BMW F31 320d M-Sport |
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09-09-2018, 07:36 AM | #92 |
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I recently changed my first gen Bavsound ghost sub to the Ground Zero ones and immediately hear a lot more bass and clarity.
I am running full Bavsound speakers with Bimmertech amp but set up mine to HK sixteen speakers set up. |
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09-09-2018, 09:05 AM | #93 | |
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Publishing the T/S specs is SOP with manufacturers and sellers of home hi-fi and pro-sound drivers. No one with real audio chops would dream of buying a driver without first seeing the specs and then using speaker modeling software to see how it will work. The opposite is true of auto sound, where you very rarely see specs published. The Ground Zero mentioned above is an exception, it does have specs. Software modeling shows that it does have higher sensitivity than stock in the upper bass, so it will sound louder, However, it does not go any lower than stock, so by no means does it approach what a separate trunk mounted sub will do. But this doesn't matter to you, as that driver is an 8". That brings up the main problem with the base radio, the lack of a separate amp. It's very under powered. If you're going to upgrade going to a separate amp would be the first step, after which you may find the OEM drivers are adequate. This thread may help where the amp is concerned: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1475424 If it’s still not enough you’re best off doing what the poster in that thread did, adding a trunk sub. The laws of acoustics are very inflexible in what they’ll allow any under seat woofer to accomplish, no matter how much it costs. |
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09-09-2018, 12:36 PM | #94 | |
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It really helped me what to decide. My setup will be Focal Kevlar in front, Focal "Performance" for rear, 2 used hk/hifi oem subs, and an old Focal 27cm trunk sub awaiting for about 10 years in my mess/garage... (Living in France, Focal stuff is available everywhere). I never used (well, never thinked of using it ) software modelling, but it is very interesting. I'm gonna give it a try, as some informations are available: https://www.focal.com/sites/www.foca...ft-100-krs.pdf https://www.focal.com/sites/www.foca...ical-sheet.pdf Next step: choose my amp... |
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09-09-2018, 01:42 PM | #95 | |
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Thanks |
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09-09-2018, 04:26 PM | #96 |
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Those Focals both have less sensitivity and don't go as low as the stock BMW hi-fi midrange, and you'd need to alter the door to get them to fit. I can't say how they might compare to the base radio BMW midranges, as I don't have those to measure the T/S specs or frequency response.
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09-09-2018, 07:31 PM | #97 |
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Hello people,
I'm in the same position, looking to get (much) better sound than my base sound system. I'm thinking of installing this set up a Morel Virtus 603 Nano: https://www.morelhifi.com/product/vi...o-2-way-3-way/ I'll probably use Morel Hybrid Twitters I have (instead of the virtus's) and get a proper (but small) amp, I really want to keep the stock look/condition of the car. What do you think? will this work? |
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09-09-2018, 08:47 PM | #98 |
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I can't give an opinion, partly because I don't have specs for the OEM drivers used in the base system, partly because that Morel system doesn't list any specs. Nonetheless my advice a few posts back remains, the #1 deficiency of the base system is the lack of a separate amp. That's the first thing you should fix.
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09-10-2018, 03:04 AM | #99 | |
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https://www.morelhifi.com/wp-content...OR-WEBSITE.pdf And yes, of course I'll add a proper amp. While on the subject, which of the '6 channel + DSP' amps out there that fit the BMW (behind the HU - not in the boot) has the best specs/power/quality? Thanks people |
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09-10-2018, 08:03 AM | #100 | |
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09-11-2018, 01:33 PM | #101 | |
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https://www.morelhifi.com/wp-content...ifications.pdf What do you think? How well would it do compared to the default BMW 'sub' in the same enclosure assuming better amplification than just the HU? Thank you! |
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09-11-2018, 02:02 PM | #102 |
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While on the subject, do we know the physical dimensions of the base 'subs'? Especially height? what's the tallest woofer we can get in there? Also, any guess about the volume of the enclosure (box+Seal) in Cu ft?
Thank you! |
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09-11-2018, 04:03 PM | #103 | |
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09-12-2018, 08:03 AM | #104 |
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Personally I think the OEM HiFi (676) subs sound very good if the stock DSP is replaced.
I got the Match PP86DSP, replaced the front door speakers with Eton B100W and left everything else stock. The sound is really good, night and day difference from stock HiFi. I feel like I wouldn't get much more bass from the underseat subs and that I'd only get some deep chest-shaking bass with a trunk woofer. |
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09-26-2018, 06:33 AM | #105 |
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So what's the bottom line?
Assuming proper amplification (100w per channel) and an aftermarket 'sub' (say the Jenhert x200) in the under-seat location - how low can it realistically go? 60hz? 40hz? lower? As was pointed out repeatedly in this thread, there are physical imitations (mainly the enclosure size) that can't be overcome by a better driver/amp. I'm trying to figure out if it's worth doing. Thank you! |
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09-26-2018, 07:18 AM | #106 |
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I'll gladly model that driver for you, if you provide the specs. Then I'll model the stock driver for you, again if you provide the specs. Without specs or actual response measurements no one can make an informed recommendation. I wish I could be more helpful, but I'm an engineer, not a clairvoyant.
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09-26-2018, 01:35 PM | #107 | |
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CAR Jehnert Sound Design HiFi Komponenten – FREQUENCY RESPONSE 42 – 4.000 Hz MAX. INSTALLATION DEPTH 50mm INSTALLATION OPENING 184mm IMPEDANZ 6 Ohm KENNSCHALLDRUCK 91 db RESONANZFREQUENZ 42 Hz SCHWINGSPULE Ø 37mm MAGNET-MATERIAL Neodym KORBDURCHMESSER 208mm But I guess that's not the stats you're after... My question is more about physics, if teh volume of the enclosure is very small, and the driver size is limited, it doesn't matter what drive we put there or how much power we push to it, it'll never reach XX frequency, because of physics, right? My question is can you guess how much XX is? 40hz? Higher? Lower? Thank you very much! |
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09-26-2018, 02:12 PM | #108 |
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There is something in acoustical engineering called Hoffman's Iron Law. To summarize, with respect to small box size, low frequency response and good sensitivity, you can have any two, but not all three. If you want low response along with good sensitivity you can't have a small box. If you want a small box along with low response you can't have good sensitivity. If you want a small box along with good sensitivity you can't have low response.
The easiest issue to overcome is sensitivity. A small box with good low frequency response but low sensitivity can be compensated for by using a driver with very long excursion (how far the cone can move) and very high power handling, along with a very high powered amp. The downside is that very long excursion high power drivers and high power amps don't come cheap. Where subs are concerned 100 watts isn't high power, 400 watts and up is high power. Again, I can't address the base system with 6.5" woofers as I don't have one to measure. But having measured the specs of the 8" woofers in my hi-fi system I can safely say that in the under seat boxes it would take 400 watts of power handling, adequate excursion to deal with that 400 watts, and a 400 watt/channel amp driving them to get much better results. But if you move to a trunk mounted sub using a ten inch woofer in an adequately sized box a single 200 watt driver and 200 watt amp would do nicely. As to getting any improvement with the base system, since it doesn't have a separate amp I doubt that it has more than 20 watts per channel available, if that. A separate amp would be a step in the right direction, especially one with EQ. |
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09-27-2018, 01:54 AM | #109 | |
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I most certainly plan to replace the stock system with proper speakers and amplification. So basically we can conclude that realistically, considering the space limitations of the enclosure, it's impossible to get any true 'low bass' performance no matter the drive/amplification? Thank you |
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09-27-2018, 07:20 AM | #110 |
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You probably already have proper speakers. If they're similar to those in the hi-fi system they most definitely are proper. Ignore advertising piffle that claims otherwise without definitive data that proves what they claim. As to the under seat enclosures, getting higher performance with them is not impossible, given the right driver with enough power. If the enclosure could use standard design drivers there are some that would do the job. But the enclosure can't use standard drivers, it must use a low profile driver, and few of those exist. Of those that do exist are they actually better than stock? Only with full data sheets on both the OEM and the replacements can one know for sure.
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