04-23-2017, 12:09 PM | #89 | |
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Yes, lots of us like the manuals, but we're a demographic blip and there just won't be a mass market there. Lots of people still buy horses and track them, but the mass market of our grandfathers moved on to racing the motor car. |
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04-23-2017, 12:12 PM | #90 |
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Didn't try any DCT from BMW but I drove a PDK in a Macan S. While the ZF8 in my M135i is superb, the PDK is miles better. If the DCT is close to the PDK, that is definitely a pitty. Will need to get an M before it is too late.
But one thing I don't get is that ynguldyn said Minis will get the DCT in their facelift...
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04-23-2017, 12:18 PM | #91 |
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That's because the M division is all about profits now, that's why there is a M badge on everything thing.
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04-23-2017, 12:21 PM | #92 | |
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I'll stop buying Bmw when manuals go away. At that point might as well go EV
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04-23-2017, 12:22 PM | #93 |
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off to Porsche we go!
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04-23-2017, 12:25 PM | #94 |
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The undeniable fact is that money talks to these folks, and not much else does (brand status is also a key here, though - Porsche is 'building and selling out manual only models' but IIRC in editions of under 500 apiece, and probably double the cost of the base model, so more of a halo factor. They also got away with making engines that have a grenade pin in them, and front bearings made out of potmetal, etc. - proving the value of that branding/loyalty (if Chrysler did it, they'd have been long dead). Personally I like a manual for sport driving, but it isn't essential, and to me a royal PITA in daily driving. But I do kind of like that BMW still makes them, as a sign of being a true drivers car, so I wish you all luck in saving the manuals.
You all need to be writing and calling to let them know how you feel, and including a discussion of how much extra you would be happy to pay - I fear that too much of the energy on these boards is just fandom (nothing wrong w/ it, but it doesn't sell many manuals and tends to be the unproductive 'just do it for us' approach). I don't think I've ever seen a poster on this topic include contact info about who at BMW they are bitching to, so that the rest of us could join in. Not that it will be a magic bullet - that recent R&T article on driving dynamics, where the BMW engineer plays dumb about what 'steering feedback' really means, shows they can easily apply corporate spin to drown out our voices. And a related, overarching issue where we could all do the field a favor would be getting away from the damned bench-racing numbers wars. The engineers have now surpassed most of the human parameters that were originally motivating the quest for faster cars, but the relentless competition to shave another 0.1 second from a 0-60 time is killing the true drivers car. I would bet that in reality most all of us selected our cars based upon issues of fit and feel, but the industry likes simple, so they chase numbers - no surprise we get more robotic cars, the drag racers were using computers in the 70's that could outgun a human. |
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04-23-2017, 12:29 PM | #95 | |
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Porsche ED could very well be in my future |
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04-23-2017, 12:32 PM | #96 |
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I coded in 2TB (Sport Auto Trans) on my POS 320i and I can tell you with the JB4, that little ZF 8 Speed is the best transmission I've owned. It's shifts quite quick for an "entry level" BMW.
With that, after driving a DCT GT-R and M3, I really love the near instant gratification of the DCT gear changes, but I can't knock on the ZF too much for where it stands in the lineup. I actually sold my previous car due to the transmission, I was making about 500HP on a G8, but the auto trans (6L80E) was the sloppiest thing in the world. With the OEM torque converter it felt so loose, so I'm curious where they want to take the technology with torque converting and making it feel tight and European with quick gear shifting that doesn't feel sloppy. |
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04-23-2017, 12:33 PM | #97 |
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I'm going to puke
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04-23-2017, 12:37 PM | #99 | |
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04-23-2017, 12:41 PM | #100 |
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the manual gearboxes more durable than the DCT? I recall on both the E9x and F8x M cars that got upgraded turbos/supercharger that the DCT guys needed an upgraded clutch but the 6mt guys were fine on the stock one. I'm confused...how much more tq are new M cars going to get that the current manual box won't be durable enough for?
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04-23-2017, 12:44 PM | #102 |
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Corvette uses a Tremec trans. Nothing wrong with those. They used ZF ones in the past too.
http://www.superchevy.com/news/1601-...-transmission/ |
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04-23-2017, 12:50 PM | #103 |
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This is called progress. Cars of today are sadly computers on wheels. So I guess this is how it's going to be from now on. There was s time when people had to crank start their cars !!!
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04-23-2017, 12:50 PM | #104 | |
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What I meant by loyal fan base, are the people who have owned various older m cars and would want a manual and buy one if it was available. I realize that wants do not necessarily translate to sales but that is another topic. It's just a matter of time before the manual transmission goes away completely, I am just saddened by the fact that it's right around the corner. |
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04-23-2017, 01:09 PM | #105 | ||
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04-23-2017, 01:09 PM | #106 | ||
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04-23-2017, 01:14 PM | #107 | |||
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04-23-2017, 01:17 PM | #108 |
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Torque has always been the killer of transmissions. Especially low end grunt torque, DCT guys always had to get their boxes rebuilt or put in Dodson clutches to withstand anything over 550wtq.
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04-23-2017, 01:18 PM | #109 | ||
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2nd BMW shortens makntance plan and doesn't cover brakes or windshield wipers 3rd MSD has been mysteriously discontinued Now they want to make M cars fully automatic? This is like Porsche switching from PDK back to a automatic. Ridiculous. But on the M5 fair it's not a really a race car like the M2/3/4.
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04-23-2017, 01:20 PM | #110 |
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And unfortunately this is why money talks. Why would BMW care about the 5% bimmerpost car enthusiasts when they can cater to the 95% M buyers who buy M products for the name and status, and by doing so, implementing reduced production costs and thereby increasing margins? Why must BMW spend money to develop a DCT with higher power handling capabilities when 95% of the M drivers don't even know the difference between an automatic or DCT?
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